Heroin considering methadone maintenance- please need some advice

[mrsnowygrainius]

As the title states, I am seriously considering getting on methadone and staying on it indefinitely. My DOC is IV heroin, I been shooting dope on and off for 7 years now, desperately trying to stop with my longest clean time in those 7 years being about 50 days. They say methadone is a last resort for people who have tried and failed everything else. I have been to 3 different inpatient rehabs and 2 different outpatients. The 3 inpatients i completed the 30 days, so no one can so "oh you didn't give the stay a chance and dropped out or w.e." no that aint the case. I got out each time and relapsed within weeks. Outpatient was also a failure, I was kicked out of both programs for using.

I have also tried suboxone maintenance twice. The first time I was on 8mg for about 10 months, then I was very slowly weened off of it by the doctor. I got down to 0mgs and relapsed the very first day I was completely off of it. Continued doing dope for a couple months then went back on suboxone for another year. This time only 4 mgs. Then the same thing happened, I got weened down to nothing and went back to shooting dope. during my time on subs i only used dope whenever i could get around the drug tests.

What do you guys think? help a brother out. please give me some advice on what to do. I am currently 3 days clean off another run and I don't know what to do. I know the very first chance I get I am going to use again theres just no question about it. my dad thinks i should go away for 3 months for long term treatment but I know if i do that i will run away from the program and be homeless in a foreign state. Should also add I tried meetings, the sponsor thing, all that. the only thing that is stopping me from getting on meth is that i don't want to be stuck on the liquid handcuffs for the rest of my life. once i get on it, i will never want to get off and experience w/ds ever again, so id probably become a lifer and be trapped in my home county for good. This is a very serious decision but I can't seem to stay clean no matter what i try.

 

[Keif' Richards]

As you've already touched on, methadone should be reserved as a last-line option. The pros of MMT include stabilization, mitigation of withdrawal and satisfaction of your engorged opioid receptors. Again, as you have mentioned, getting clean is the easy part; staying clean is the true test. Even if you manage to break through the sickness and come out on the other side, PAWS is going to be constantly calling your name to return to opioid use.

Methadone both maintains and blocks the effects of other opioids. When you are on a full maintenance dose, you can't even get high if you try. There were plenty of times that I wanted to use heroin while I was on maintenance and this consisted of putting $200 in my arm in two shots and experiencing a short rush, followed by nothing. If you use the program like it's supposed to be used, you can attain a more stable lifestyle, find work and generally forget about using opioids.

The downside of course, is that you're goosed up on a highly potent opioid every day of your life and that this maintenance will inevitably end with an equally powerful and lengthy withdrawal phase when the time comes to hop off. The withdrawal phase of methadone picks off users one by one as they slide right back into short-acting opiate/oid use. There are benefits and drawbacks and both must be considered before initiating MMT.

You just need to ask yourself: How bad is your life? How out of control are you? Are you truly heading for jails, institutions or death without intervention? Then maybe methadone is right for you. You need to think of it as a marriage. You and methadone are going to be together, in a committed relationship for better or for worse.

 

[Effect]

^ intelligent answer, unlike the other posts I saw in a thread with the same exact topic from a few days back. So refreshing to not see the "shit gets in your bones bro! and ruins your teeth!" type of shit that is spouted about methadone. A lot of people that spew bullshit about it have never been on it.

as the above poster stated, it is not a decision to take lightly, but if other methods of getting your life back on track have failed then methadone could be a good option for you and can bring some stability to your life if you use it right.

 

[LSDiesel]

Try ibogaine! If your parents are willing to help you with expensive treatments, then consider going to Mexico, Canada, anywhere where you can be dosed with a flood dose of ibogaine. It is the shortest way to endure detoxing however, you will still have to change your life and what causes you to use in the first place. Ibogaine is much better than Cold Turkey in my opinion. Ibogaine eliminated PAWS for the most part for me. Feel free to PM me with any more questions. There are risks with ibogaine so make sure you are medically monitored.

 

[bobbyjones]

I don't see what the difference is between a long-term methadone program and a suboxone one. Both are controlled ways to manage your opiate habit. You could just as easily ween yourself off methadone, then relapse, or do a long-term sub program.

But for whatever reason you want to go on methadone, I don't have much advice, but I can share my own experience. Same thing happened to me. I shot dope, and I decided to move away to get clean. I ended up going to a clinic for suboxone cause I was still a lightweight in terms of facing withdrawal. I weened off 10 mg in a year and relapsed after a week. I did another year of subs and relapsed after a week. I tried traveling, acupuncture, giving my cash to family, but nothing worked. I always found a way to get high.

So in the end I checked myself into a rehab. 3 months is not a long-term stay imo. No wonder you keep relapsing; cravings last forever. I'm still in rehab after 18 months, and only now am I starting to be allowed to go out alone. And guess what, I still have cravings. I haven't used because they kind of monitor my money, I'm afraid of consequences and of losing what little I've built in this past year and a half.

In rehab I wanted to get clean fast, so I weened off 10 mg of suboxone in 2 months. As a result I've been opiate free 16 months. Everyone else here who's in for heroin addiction was actually on methadone. Suboxone is less common where I am. I only decided on it because I knew I wouldn't be able to use on top of it.

Sure, you could function with a well-managed methadone habit, you could with suboxone. I just hated being dependent. I didn't feel any less a junkie when I was on subs; it's still an opiate dependency. You feel crappy in the morning, you have to go regularly to the clinic, you have to be wary of traveling and of missing a dosage. You have to dose responsibly. You're still constipated, still putting crap into your body.

If truly can't deal with kicking your habit then methadone is certainly better than using heroin, but when or if you decide you want to kick that too, I would suggest taking more drastic measures, such as a much longer term vacation from opiates. Some people are able to quit on their own, or they have enough determination to do get off it and stay off it. I could never do it, and to me you sound similar.

 

[crzydiamond]

I have been on methadone. And am currently on it. I've come off of it twice and the second time remained clean for almost 9 years. It does allow you to change your thinking and your life and it really does get rid of the obsessive thinking when you just go to a short term rehab. IMO a 30 day rehab is pretty pointless. It's not long enough.

I did 5+ years in state prison and I can say it took the greater part of a year for my thinking to return to somewhat normal. Physically I was ok much much sooner but until the cravings and such left it was about a year. Three years in I felt like drug use was so incompatible with who I was that it seemed like someone else's past.

If you're not willing to go into real term treatment, like a year, and you know you're not capable of staying clean for months on your own, then yes by all means get on methadone to allow you to make those changes and stabilize your life. It's not the handcuffs you make it out to be. At least it's not when you're doing the right things. You can get takehomes, you can travel, you can move (transfer to different clinic)

Don't be afraid to get on methadone. It isn't any worse than being on suboxone, and you got off that

 

[Effect]

I don't see what the difference is between a long-term methadone program and a suboxone one. Both are controlled ways to manage your opiate habit. You could just as easily ween yourself off methadone, then relapse, or do a long-term sub program.

But for whatever reason you want to go on methadone, I don't have much advice, but I can share my own experience. Same thing happened to me. I shot dope, and I decided to move away to get clean. I ended up going to a clinic for suboxone cause I was still a lightweight in terms of facing withdrawal. I weened off 10 mg in a year and relapsed after a week. I did another year of subs and relapsed after a week. I tried traveling, acupuncture, giving my cash to family, but nothing worked. I always found a way to get high.

So in the end I checked myself into a rehab. 3 months is not a long-term stay imo. No wonder you keep relapsing; cravings last forever. I'm still in rehab after 18 months, and only now am I starting to be allowed to go out alone. And guess what, I still have cravings. I haven't used because they kind of monitor my money, I'm afraid of consequences and of losing what little I've built in this past year and a half.

In rehab I wanted to get clean fast, so I weened off 10 mg of suboxone in 2 months. As a result I've been opiate free 16 months. Everyone else here who's in for heroin addiction was actually on methadone. Suboxone is less common where I am. I only decided on it because I knew I wouldn't be able to use on top of it.

Sure, you could function with a well-managed methadone habit, you could with suboxone. I just hated being dependent. I didn't feel any less a junkie when I was on subs; it's still an opiate dependency. You feel crappy in the morning, you have to go regularly to the clinic, you have to be wary of traveling and of missing a dosage. You have to dose responsibly. You're still constipated, still putting crap into your body.

If truly can't deal with kicking your habit then methadone is certainly better than using heroin, but when or if you decide you want to kick that too, I would suggest taking more drastic measures, such as a much longer term vacation from opiates. Some people are able to quit on their own, or they have enough determination to do get off it and stay off it. I could never do it, and to me you sound similar.

You can definitely use on top of buprenorphine (suboxone) and for myself methadone actaully puts a dent into my day to day desire to use in a way that buprenorphine simply never did which is why I'm much happier with it thus far even with the more strict federal regulations.

 

[Keif' Richards]

^ intelligent answer, unlike the other posts I saw in a thread with the same exact topic from a few days back. So refreshing to not see the "shit gets in your bones bro! and ruins your teeth!" type of shit that is spouted about methadone. A lot of people that spew bullshit about it have never been on it.

as the above poster stated, it is not a decision to take lightly, but if other methods of getting your life back on track have failed then methadone could be a good option for you and can bring some stability to your life if you use it right.

Haha, it's amazing the wealth of useless information that gets propagated. "Shit gets in your bones" gave me a good laugh and I needed one.

We've touched on a good point regarding buprenorphine use and compliance. It's much easier to take "holidays" from bupe use and get high. Maybe you get a prescription of 90 a month. Maybe you sell 30-50 and use the rest to maintain between runs. I've seen it probably hundreds of times. I hate to say it and please bear in mind, this is only opinion, but Methadone satisfies in a way that buprenorphine simply doesn't.

Also, getting off of methadone is not just a decision made on the fly. When you're on a maintenance dose, it's a long way back down. It took me two weeks of complete abstinence before I could even feel a fentanyl bag, which generally provide at least a good rush if nothing else.

 

[manboychef]

I can weigh in on this. Basically, I started use of opiates at age fifteen. It took me till age 32 to quit. I tried buprenorphine, but ended up injecting that as well. When I was on it, it left me wanting more...so I began shooting cocaine. This lasted for two years, in which time I had a great job, was not isolating, and had an active social life....however, I was a raging addict inside.

Bupe and Done are only tools to limit your withdrawal. The only way to have lasting sobriety is to work on yourself. Therapy works well, as well as changing your routine. I eat a balanced diet, I excercise, I routinely visit with family members, and I have hobbies.

My suggestion is you try a long term rehab. It takes a long time to really take the obsession to use away. It has been nine months and the only time I think about using is when I have a drug dream, and that feeling goes away quickly when I think back to what it was like to be strung out.

You are much stronger than you know my friend. As addicts, we all would do anything to get off sick...well now you need to look at getting healthy the same way. What would you be willing to do to stop? Estrangement from my son, Hep C, many stays at the local psych ward, and ending up in jail....many times....didn't stop me. It took willingness. Think to yourself if you are truly ready, and you will have the ammo you need, and the desire to seek all the answers that will help you.

Good luck, and I hope you make it to the other side, because it is a great feeling not waking up sick.

 

[Effect]

Haha, it's amazing the wealth of useless information that gets propagated. "Shit gets in your bones" gave me a good laugh and I needed one.

We've touched on a good point regarding buprenorphine use and compliance. It's much easier to take "holidays" from bupe use and get high. Maybe you get a prescription of 90 a month. Maybe you sell 30-50 and use the rest to maintain between runs. I've seen it probably hundreds of times. I hate to say it and please bear in mind, this is only opinion, but Methadone satisfies in a way that buprenorphine simply doesn't.

Also, getting off of methadone is not just a decision made on the fly. When you're on a maintenance dose, it's a long way back down. It took me two weeks of complete abstinence before I could even feel a fentanyl bag, which generally provide at least a good rush if nothing else.

my thoughts exactly... glad you got a good chuckle, by the way. Just typing/saying some of the bullshit "facts" you hear about methadone always puts a smile on my face. People can be so ignorant about shit they put in their body day after day.

 

[mrsnowygrainius]

thanks guys all of you for all the info.. i got a lot out of what some of u said. Im guna give it another try without resorting to meth. the thing is, i just don't know how to handle the cravings. i don't know what to do when i get them i am a very introverted person so asking for help is hard.

 

[dixx3]

Real Iboga

Hope you are still keeping up with this thread... And hope you are OK. Also I beg of you not to go the Methadone route. It is not a life you want. You will be a shadow of yourself. There were people at my clinic that we on 200+mg!! I was a hard junk user and 100mg was enough to make me sleep all day. Those 200mg folks look like that were in a psych ward and loaded up with Thorazine. No expression no snap they were doomed.


I was on Methadone for 2 years. Methadone cessation is torture! You must verrry slowly taper if possible. Being on Methadone just locks into your receptors for a long time. Your natural feedback mechanism is way suppressed because it is so long lasting.

Heroin's shorter half life lets your body kick in at least a few endorphins (you know like when you cant score right away....)

Methadone is just in there and what ever it is in your brain that produces the endorphins just goes on vacation. Pain is the only thing that brings it home again.

But to all of our brothers and sisters out there suffering my heart goes out to you. It does get better and strangely I think I am a happier person because of the experience (Four years clean)


Hell I consider that clean compared to .6 to .8 of black tar heroin IV every day for 4 years then 2 on Methadone.



If you are on heroin not methadone and want to kick look into Ibogaine. Had a friend try it to get off methadone and it helped him and he got clean but it was rough.

I talked to an Iboga provider about this and he told me straight away that if I wanted to do Iboga just get back on Heroin for 2-3 months to rid yourself of the methadone then go for the treatment. Needless to say I gladly took his advice. 3 months later he was near my town (he travels around guiding and helping ppl mostly h addicts but some just for the experience). I rented cheap beach house really it cost me like $200 for 5 days (off season) and not a pretty beach. I didn't want to be in my apartment which was loaded with triggers to remind me of H.

He dosed my GF the first day and dosed me the next. This was because the first day out your caretaker is got their hands full he was there feeding me water taking me to the bathroom cause you cannot do it yourself.

day 3 I started to remember things before that I had very little recollection. Which is why it is good for this purpose i guess. Those first 3 days cold turkey are when you usually say fuck it and get some dope.

But there was more to it than that. The trips I remember where showing me the world I was missing. And by the end of the week I didn't feel super awesome but I was OK. And the most amazing thing happened after it was over, I had a visceral revulsion to opiates! Could not stand the thought of them!

Unlike when I kicked on my own a few times. That always left a longing in the back of my mind. But after Iboga it just grosses me out to think of it..If the world was going to end tomorrow and I had a pile of top notch gear on my coffee table I don't think I would do it, Seriously! and opiates were my thang any other drug I could take it or leave it but my brain justliked.... no it adored dope! Dont know if this is a common reaction but I am glad the trip did that for me.

Also in the end it turns out the beach house was unnecessary as you are not in this world anyway. It was nice for 4th and 5th day. Walks down deserted beaches really was soothing.

But something I did not expect was the floods of emotions that came rolling in on day 5 I could feel things again. Played some of my favorite melancholy music (Sparkelhorse) and just cried and cried but it felt amazing I didn't want to stop.
My now X-GF had a similar experiences and she is also still clean. We parted ways and still care deeply for each other but we both needed to move on.

Don't take this the wrong way it still wasn't easy. You gotta pay the piper some how. And I didn't feel great and my sleep didn't really come back to me for about a month but it was so much easier than cold turkey. But after that got back into synch my life was so exciting! Still is! Moved from my city in Texas where I had born and raised for 38 years and now live in NYC. Got married 3 years ago to a beautiful girl whom I surely do not deserve but no matter we are deeply in love and every day is better than the last!

I fucking swear something or somethings, in this universe, matrix, or whatever this reality is, has been helping me ever since the trip. And for the record I do not believe in any traditional organized or leader driven religion (but that conversation if for another time and place). That being said as a former atheist I now know for sure there are different worlds and dimensions where consciousness also resides and with the right tools and twinkle in your eye you can catch a glimpse.

Sorry for rambling but I have never shared this experience online to the world. There was more to it than I thought. Isn't that always the way it is.



Love to you all! and especially you MRSNOWYGRAINIUS you need love most of all now. I am going to put my email here (please no one spam it) contact me and I will put you in touch with some great providers or ansewer any questions you may have.

email is: dixx3 AT riseup.net you know replace the AT with an @

-D

P.S. The official ones in Canada and Mexico do not give you near high enough dose. While I am sure I will help a personal provider will be far more effective. My guy has been at this for 8 years all over the country. Every precaution is taken. I have not heard of any serious issues with this treatment and I am always keeping up with it. If you are over the age of 40 or have a history of minor heart problems my provider brings and automated defibrillator and he always works out the drive to the hospital. He has had to use the defibrillator once on a 63 year old guy and it didn't even activate because the machine detected a normal sinus rhythm. The wife was just scared watching the situation and insisted on it.He came out fine with no recollection of his wife panicking a little.

“You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.”
― Mae West

 

[mrsnowygrainius]

wow thanks man so much for that, very insightful message you gave to me. would your guy come to new jersey? i am still a little skeptical about ibogaine but you say it worked for you so idk. what about the crippling depression after getting clean? did the ibogaine help with that? in the beginning how did you deal with the intense cravings to use (which always get me). do you have a support system? were you really able to get 4 years on your own i didn't see you mention anything about the time after the ibogaine.

sorry for all the questions but i just don't know what to do to stay clean. thats why i think about going on meth because being a zombie on meth seems more attractive to me than hating every day i wake up and dealing with this depression... but i haven't gone on it and i don't think i will

 

[chitownskag]

I have been on methadone. And am currently on it. I've come off of it twice and the second time remained clean for almost 9 years. It does allow you to change your thinking and your life and it really does get rid of the obsessive thinking when you just go to a short term rehab. IMO a 30 day rehab is pretty pointless. It's not long enough.

I did 5+ years in state prison and I can say it took the greater part of a year for my thinking to return to somewhat normal. Physically I was ok much much sooner but until the cravings and such left it was about a year. Three years in I felt like drug use was so incompatible with who I was that it seemed like someone else's past.

If you're not willing to go into real term treatment, like a year, and you know you're not capable of staying clean for months on your own, then yes by all means get on methadone to allow you to make those changes and stabilize your life. It's not the handcuffs you make it out to be. At least it's not when you're doing the right things. You can get takehomes, you can travel, you can move (transfer to different clinic)

Don't be afraid to get on methadone. It isn't any worse than being on suboxone, and you got off that

That's so true, when I went to the joint I only did alittle over a year but then had to do 4 months halve way house. Your mind does totally change for the good. I was social again and shit it was nice, just takes a long time for your brain to mentally go back to where it used to be. I ended up using when I got out though and got caught a couple times by my po. She was real cool though that's when I got on done. Its not a bad thing, but I think someone should explore alot of options first. Like get a sponsor and shit, go to meetings, obviously only I your really ready to get clean

 

[cj]

Methadone has really helped me. Just wanted to post and counterbalance the negativity. Done ges a bad rap but I don't think it's addiction is any worse than high dose suboxone. Either way you go the withdrawal is gonna be rough. There is no free lunch with maintenance.

 

[seanimal]

I won't tell you to get on methadone, but I seriously think you should consider it. I was in the same exact situation as you man, and I got on MMT from IV heroin. I finally feel great - no cravings, no withdrawal, nothing.
I honestly don't mind staying on methadone for my whole life, because I just can NOT stop using heroin without something like methadone taking its place. I tried suboxone, and it was a no go. Didn't help the cravings one bit. If you are hurting and you are suffering the constant highs and lows of heroin all the time because you can't stop, I would really suggest getting on MMT buddy! Its changed my life so far, and I was the worst junkie ever. I was the last of my friends to stop using.
BUT!!!!! If you tend to get arrested and have trouble with the law, do NOT NOT NOT get on MMT. You do NOT want to kick in jail. Jail has never been something I've ever worried about, and I never plan on going, so I'm okay with it, but if its a problem with you then please don't even consider MMT.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck! Let me know if you have any questions

 

[Effect]

I won't tell you to get on methadone, but I seriously think you should consider it. I was in the same exact situation as you man, and I got on MMT from IV heroin. I finally feel great - no cravings, no withdrawal, nothing.
I honestly don't mind staying on methadone for my whole life, because I just can NOT stop using heroin without something like methadone taking its place. I tried suboxone, and it was a no go. Didn't help the cravings one bit. If you are hurting and you are suffering the constant highs and lows of heroin all the time because you can't stop, I would really suggest getting on MMT buddy! Its changed my life so far, and I was the worst junkie ever. I was the last of my friends to stop using.
BUT!!!!! If you tend to get arrested and have trouble with the law, do NOT NOT NOT get on MMT. You do NOT want to kick in jail. Jail has never been something I've ever worried about, and I never plan on going, so I'm okay with it, but if its a problem with you then please don't even consider MMT.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck! Let me know if you have any questions

Good thoughts and I'm very similar to yourself. But yeah, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't scared and haven't thought about having to kick in jail considering I'm on probation and MMT.