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Compulsive Gambling Vs Dopaminergic Drugs

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Lysosomalstorage

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So I've been thinking about this lately, a long time ago I had a close friend go through a pretty severe compulsive Gambling habit, nearly ruined him and all his relationships, to help him at the time I started reading recovery diaries from other CG people, mainly on the British support forum gamcare (it's like bluelight for gambling). What stuck out to me from those diaries, was the overwhelming majority of the ones that kept relapsing, often getting into more debt than ever each time after months of rebuilding, were hard working, well paid with families or partners and most importantly had never touched a drug or had a substance abuse problems of any kind.

My thought is how different their lives would have been if they had tried recreational drugs, particularly dopaminergic drugs. Would the artificially large dumping of dopamine from amphetamines or cocaine have changed their reaction to the relatively small and natural release gained from the flutter/rush of betting?.

Or are they likely to go straight to drug addiction because of an inherent overreaction to dopamine rewards? Some of the stories were absolutely haunting, destroying picturesque comfortable lives and families in the bookies chasing a paradoxical rush that seems so insignificant once you've done stimulants. Is it a case of dopamine rewards perspective, or were they always doomed to get stuck in a cycle as long as it drip fed some sort of reward.
 
Gambling can be just as rewarding as drugs, although it's usually more up and down hour to hour instead of the usual straight shot to pleasure that you get with most drugs. So I guess it would be closest to a crack addiction.

I've had intermittent problems with gambling, although I never reach the the levels that become a severe problem to my finances.

I'm pretty sure many gamblers also have issues with drugs. This is pure speculation but some people on those sites may still be covering up drug addictions due to the taboo.
 
I suppose the potential is there for them to be deceptive about drug use, but due to it being anonymous and them chronicling their thoughts and daily activities for months they tend to share information far more taboo and embarrassing in the diaries than drug use would be, as well as using their lack of substance abuse as a way to explain their confusion as to why they are so unable to be gamble free.
 
Lysosomalstorage said:
So I've been thinking about this lately, a long time ago I had a close friend go through a pretty severe compulsive Gambling habit, nearly ruined him and all his relationships, to help him at the time I started reading recovery diaries from other CG people, mainly on the British support forum gamcare (it's like bluelight for gambling). What stuck out to me from those diaries, was the overwhelming majority of the ones that kept relapsing, often getting into more debt than ever each time after months of rebuilding, were hard working, well paid with families or partners and most importantly had never touched a drug or had a substance abuse problems of any kind.

My thought is how different their lives would have been if they had tried recreational drugs, particularly dopaminergic drugs. Would the artificially large dumping of dopamine from amphetamines or cocaine have changed their reaction to the relatively small and natural release gained from the flutter/rush of betting?.

Or are they likely to go straight to drug addiction because of an inherent overreaction to dopamine rewards? Some of the stories were absolutely haunting, destroying picturesque comfortable lives and families in the bookies chasing a paradoxical rush that seems so insignificant once you've done stimulants. Is it a case of dopamine rewards perspective, or were they always doomed to get stuck in a cycle as long as it drip fed some sort of reward.
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I think drugs will only make things worse... Tbh only times i gamble is when im on amphetamines or "heroic" doses of booze and benzos :/ speed/amph is trigger for me becouse repetative shit is even more fun (mofo rat on the wheel )
 
I worked in a bookmakers (bookies) there was no drug use but the actual betting on horses and dogs and virtual rubbish was like an actual drug - thing was you couldn’t approach them like ‘you’ve had enough etc’ prob get knocked out lol.

It was disgusting sometimes but each to their own I suppose.

When the fun stops - stop.
 
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smoking weed is like the anti-gamble for me - makes me not like it

i need to be alert and on point.....sweaty pits and all


now i just make future bets on a team that might win it all - that's all i can handle nowadays

a few lotto numbers too


gambling's fun - i'll always be doing some form of gambling
 
Some clinically used dopamine direct agonist have been blamed for making people gambling addicts. I can see the reasoning, but still think it's down to the person. Many get such drugs, but never become addicted to gambling.
It's funny, therr are loads of drugs I've had uncontrolled intake of, but gambling has never appealed...
 
fastandbulbous said:
Some clinically used dopamine direct agonist have been blamed for making people gambling addicts. I can see the reasoning, but still think it's down to the person. Many get such drugs, but never become addicted to gambling.
It's funny, therr are loads of drugs I've had uncontrolled intake of, but gambling has never appealed...
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Its stupid kind of Rush that can keep you ocupied and if you Got some selfdestruct in you hehey even better.. win or loose all the same to me ;(
 
fastandbulbous said:
Some clinically used dopamine direct agonist have been blamed for making people gambling addicts. I can see the reasoning, but still think it's down to the person. Many get such drugs, but never become addicted to gambling.
It's funny, therr are loads of drugs I've had uncontrolled intake of, but gambling has never appealed...
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Same. I’ve never understood it. Why waste money on a maybe when you can use a drug and have a damn near guarantee you’ll feel good.

-GC
 
Probably not so good.

neversickanymore said:




The Mesolimbic System is one of our main motivational forces. It determines what situations are likely to lead us to rewards and negative consequences. It determines whats good and bad in our stimulus, or what we see, hear, taste, etc. Once it determines if a experience may lead us to a reward it drives us either toward the goal, or if it could lead to a negative outcome, or away from the danger. In people who dont use drugs the system is programed and designed to drive us toward and reward us for actions that are necessary for the life to continue. We are driven to eat buy hunger and when we eat we feel good. We are driven to drink water by thirst and when we do we feel good. Our sex drive makes us want to have sex and when we are able to we feel really good.

We are also rewarded when we successfully solve a problem or when we get lucky and find a reward. We feel good as a reward for these ocrances. This system is also involved in the drive to accomplish tasks that cause the release of this chemical.





When we experience the drive or craving to take a drug, it is the result of psychological addiction. A plausible theory for how addiction is created is that we have introduced a large "unnatural" dopamine release into this system and it has been logged in given a drive. The dopamine release caused by the drug is often many time larger than the natural dopamine releases that are programmed into the system. This can cause addiction to be greater than the natural drives. Now that we have reprogrammed taking our drug of choice into this drive system we can and will experience strong desires and emotional manipulations to use our DOC. Just as non drug users experience almost uncontrollable urges to eat, drink water, and have sex, we will have a drive to use our DOC. This drive is addiction.

Here are some representations of related dopamine releases and some addictive substances.

SubstancePMAMain EffectOther
CocaineBlocks DA uptakeInc DopamineDirectly increase dopaminergic transmission in the NAc
LSDInc Serotonin
HeroinActivates Mu & delta receptorsInc Dopamine through disinhibition in the VTA of dopamine neurons and direct effects on DA terminals
AmphetaminesInc Dopamine & blocks DA uptakeInc Dopamine
NicotineAcetylcholineInc Dopamine
AlcoholGABA & Substance PInc GABAIncreased MDP activity
MarijuanaActivates Endocannabinoid receptorsInc Dopamine in MDP
MDMAInc Serotonin and block 5-HT uptakeInc SerotoninInc Dopamine
​
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neversickanymore said:
Thank You clara and evel and CC=D


Here is part one of the video about dopamine

​
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These are out of order, so please play video 2 first.

Dopamine effects "executive" control.. I believe through https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2238694/


Cool thread @Lysosomalstorage
 
Gambling always seemed dumb to me, like I don’t get why my mom keeps buying lottery tickets even though she will never gain more than she lost with it.

But I am someone who also “doesn’t get” most other sober activities people do. Like how are they getting that excited about stuff? Only time I felt like that was when I was a young kid and everything seemed exciting.

I’m bored with all games now, or most sober activities because I don’t feel anything from it, I have to fake pretend to be happy/excited just to not seem weird to normal people.

When I was a kid I was obsessed with video games, I’d put so much time in just to win something fast, win a new level. Now I just can’t see the reason to get excited about something happening on a screen. Been like this since I was a teen which is prob the reason I seeked out drugs, to get some actual real feelings happening.

I have seen people get addicted to shopping and hoarding products, some family members do it and it’s like they can’t stop buying crap they don’t need. They must be getting a high dopamine hit out of it. They’ll make excuses afterwards, like “reasons” it was a good buy like they’re in denial of it being a problem.

Some of us drug users brains seem way different with the way the reward system is set up.
 
I use to know a guy who did meth daily & had for over a decade & he still had a gambling problem.
I'd say addiction in general is so much more complex than just a dopamine fix. But it can really depend on the person, their own genetics, environment & personality & even what their addiction is (i.e. - is it drugs, gambling, food, sex, etc?)
 
Dopaminergic drugs are known to potentiate or even induce compulsive behavior like gambling in susceptible individuals.. The dopamine agonists used for Parkinson's come with a warning about this. But not everybody has the same reaction to them, and I guess your mindset (if you are averse to gambling in general or not, I am for example) is relevant too. I can relate a bit to people who binge watch pr0n on meth tho.
 
I have met people who handle drugs much better than how they handle gambling.
Not my cup of tea but I can see how that’s possible.
 
No_more_evry_monday said:
I think drugs will only make things worse... Tbh only times i gamble is when im on amphetamines or "heroic" doses of booze and benzos :/ speed/amph is trigger for me becouse repetative shit is even more fun (mofo rat on the wheel )
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Yes, I’m a prime example of drugs making it worse. For a long time meth and the casinos went hand in hand.

Luckily I don’t have the gambling issue as bad as my dad. He lost all his money over 20 years ago and still goes, using his meager social security income. He gets his food through volunteering once a week with an organization that helps feed low income households. The only thing he likes to talk about is sharing stories about his “big wins”. It’s sad. Gambling is the only thing that makes him “happy”.
 
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