Codiene / opiate withdrawal

[Berks420]

Hello,

I have been taking 240mg Codiene or Dihydrocodeine for years daily, I've managed to stop at times for 2 weeks and relapsed. My goal is to be fully clean.
Right now I've cut down to the same dose(240mg), but only every 3rd day. This is day 6. I've had horrible but managable withdrawals

I can't take a lower dose as its either all or nothing for me. I'm just wondering if you think this is a good way for me to ease the withdrawals, or am I just extending the withdrawal forever with that dose.

I really appreciate any input
Thanks

 

[Jabberwocky]

You will prolong the withdrawal there is no doubt about that. Every time you dose, especially during acute phase, you're not kust making yourself miserable but are flirting with a full on relapse. I couldn't do it that way. The same psychology that you described as "all or nothing" applies for stopping chronic opioid use. I understand that it is very uncomfortable to kick opioids cause unfortunately acute phase is most obviously painful but the real struggle is not going back. When we take anything every day for years it becomes ingrained habit that can be overcome only by creating new ones. Struggle will continue for few months at least it will just be different in nature. Don't get me wrong I am not disrespecting the pain you are going through now cause this part truly is actually most painful. But there is a lot of work to be done to address root cause of your distress that you're medicating with codeine. For acute phase things like pregabalin, loperamide, a week of benzodiazepines...are good options to ease the pain. But you will have to tapper of that too as you stated that you want yo be fully clean. But what fully clean means is a matter of interpretation. I believe that you're not doing yourself any favours by taking codeine and that you should try a different approach. It is ultimately you that is enjoying and feeling the pain so it must be your decision. I don't know did I help with this post but I am sure rooting for you. You will get other responses from members of this community and I hope it works out for you very fast cause I am familiar with the agony of opioid withdrawal. Please keep us updated and take care.

 

[mdaniel80]

"I can't take a lower dose as its either all or nothing for me." you said it man. A taper wont work for you. If you truly want to stay clean you gotta get rid off and cut off your supply.

 

[plumbus-nine]

You manage it to take a dose only every 3rd day? That's already great! Do you rush into withdrawals when using like this? I could indeed stretch opiates (morphine) out to take every 2nd day, but if missing that dose I'd get strong withdrawals. But your codeine dose is on the lower end, certainly for somebody who used for years.

Sorry, I don't have much to contribute. You might try DXM to withdraw completely, better memantine but it's prescription only while DXM is over the counter. These dissociatives modulate your mu opioid receptors and can counter tolerance, so you could withdraw without going through turkey. It worked for me and I was on a pretty high daily dose of morphine.

 

[mdaniel80]

You manage it to take a dose only every 3rd day? That's already great! Do you rush into withdrawals when using like this? I could indeed stretch opiates (morphine) out to take every 2nd day, but if missing that dose I'd get strong withdrawals. But your codeine dose is on the lower end, certainly for somebody who used for years.

Sorry, I don't have much to contribute. You might try DXM to withdraw completely, better memantine but it's prescription only while DXM is over the counter. These dissociatives modulate your mu opioid receptors and can counter tolerance, so you could withdraw without going through turkey. It worked for me and I was on a pretty high daily dose of morphine.

Yes, NMDA antagonism is an excellent route for ope WD. I used ketamine to get off kratom. I like memantine too but I easily get adverse effects at anything over 5mg. DMX Hbr does NOT fair well for me. Is there another form of it? I heard there was but cannot seem to find much info on it.

 

[Fertile]

While sometimes medicines can help break the cycle of addiction, they all seem to pose a risk of their own. I know many people who swear by K to get off opioids, but none of them HAVE stopped.

DXM isn't used in the UK so I cannot comment on that.

I WAS told by a doctor earlier this year that 'we don't prescribe codeine any more, it's too addictive'. Now I thought that an odd statement but maybe they meant that for the analgesia it provides, codeine is more addictive than say 5mg of oxycodone. I HAVE noticed a lot of OC being prescribed in the UK.

I also meant to ask how you used the codeine. One big dose every 24 hours? If so, it's because codeine has a depot effect. For some people, their body begins to metabolise codeine when it's administered and those enzymes hang around for a long time. Many years ago I found that while 1 large dose a day worked... but splitting it into two halves and taking them 12 hours apart did not.

It is possible to slowly go down from 240mg but 240mg is an important number - it's the average maximum a person can metabolise each day. That is why medically, 240mg is the maximum.

I wish you well in your efforts to get clean.

 

[mdaniel80]

While sometimes medicines can help break the cycle of addiction, they all seem to pose a risk of their own. I know many people who swear by K to get off opioids, but none of them HAVE stopped.

DXM isn't used in the UK so I cannot comment on that.

I WAS told by a doctor earlier this year that 'we don't prescribe codeine any more, it's too addictive'. Now I thought that an odd statement but maybe they meant that for the analgesia it provides, codeine is more addictive than say 5mg of oxycodone. I HAVE noticed a lot of OC being prescribed in the UK.

I also meant to ask how you used the codeine. One big dose every 24 hours? If so, it's because codeine has a depot effect. For some people, their body begins to metabolise codeine when it's administered and those enzymes hang around for a long time. Many years ago I found that while 1 large dose a day worked... but splitting it into two halves and taking them 12 hours apart did not.

It is possible to slowly go down from 240mg but 240mg is an important number - it's the average maximum a person can metabolise each day. That is why medically, 240mg is the maximum.

I wish you well in your efforts to get clean.

By "k" are you referring to kratom or ketamine?

 

[Fertile]

Ketamine - sorry for not being clear.

 

[mdaniel80]

Ketamine - sorry for not being clear.

I succesfully used ketamine to get off opioids (including kratom). And I dont abuse ketamine

 

[Dr.Faust]

Hello Mdaniel-80,

I'm very interested in how you got off opiates with ketamine.
So how much and what substance were you dependent on?
And how exactly did you use the ketamine - only after leavin out off the opiates or already when weaning off the dose?
What were your dosages of the K and how long did you take it?
In the end tapered off or abruptly discontinued?
Did you use anything else like Lyrica?
I would be very grateful for an answer.

I'm on 4x16mg hydromorphone/day and looking to wean it over Christmas. I actually wanted to try memantine, but ketamine sounds interesting too.
Best regards and thank you!

 

[mdaniel80]

Of course. I used kratom to get off ocycodone and ketamine to get off kratom. While folks say that kratom is nothing to get off of, they usually didnt chronically abuse it for 3 years. It is def easier than oxy but still a beast and the WD last longer. Anyway, I tapered off by cutting my dosages down more each daily I quit dosing at night completely by taking low dose ketamine in the evening (35mg once or twice). I def did NOT use Lyrica as I am a former phenibut addict. They are very similar. I DO use etizolam on occassion when I cant sleep (2-3 x per week and only 2mg doages). I did the k-hole thing a couple times and I didnt need to use kratom for at least 48 hours after but it seems ketamine doesnt want me to high dose anymore and I get adverse effects. SO I keep it low (intranasal). I hope that helped. Oh, and mementine has the same MOA as ketamine its just a partial antagonist rather than full AND it has a 65 hour half life where ket has 45 minutes. Take too much mem and you are fucked for days. I found that 5mg memantine allow me to half my kratom dose with the same effects. Again while kratom is a partial mu agonist as opposed to full, the MOA is similar enough to consider it an opioid when looking at WD and drug interactions.