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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Clonidine vs hydroxyzine: insomnia AND anxiety

Memantine

Bluelighter
Joined
May 16, 2015
Messages
304
Currently I get 25mg hydroxyzine prescribed but I usually collect them and take 100mg before an "anxious" day. This way I can sleep very long and very deep and the next day I feel well-rested, sedated and relaxed all day long.


I'm just wondering if clonidine can work in a similar way. Does it work better for these purposes or not? I'm asking this because hydroxyzine exacerbates my HPPD a bit, blocks the CYP2D6 enzyme (which interferes with codeine and DXM usage) and is capable of causing tardive dyskinesia in the long term.
 
I never found Hydroxyzine (Vistaril, Atarax) to have much anxiolytic effect, so I'm glad that someone does and it's not just the medical community shoveling more bullshit drugs on us. Like other antihistamines, it's useful for getting some sleep in certain scenarios and works as a mild potentiator when combined with Opioids, but like I said, I never found use for it as an anxiolytic.

Clonidine on the other hand, has proved itself useful for this purpose. I, like a lot of people, experience physical effects of anxiety. For the most part mine manifests itself as a tight, tense feeling in my chest. This, in turn, makes the psychological aspect of my anxiety worse and vice versa. Now, if I take .1mg - .2mg of Clonidine, maybe more if my anxiety is really killer, it tends to alleviate the feeling of tightness in my chest and enables me to relax a little bit easier. It's by no means a magic bullet, like a Benzodiazepine for instance, but anything that helps relieve my anxiety is worth taking, especially if I have a more or less stressful day ahead of me. You could perhaps find some relief in Clonidine as well for this reason. For most people also, including myself, Clonidine is great for inducing sleep. If I take .2mg before bed, I'm generally out within an hour.

Baclofen, I've only had one trial run with (a month's prescription). I didn't get a lot of benefit from it; hardly any really. I took 4x the intended dosage once and I went to sleep, only to wake up the next morning feeling groggy and off. Baclofen is a GABAergic drug, related to things like Pregabalin (Lyrica), Gabapentin (Neurontin) and Phenibut (OTC), but in my experience, it possesses nowhere near the anxiolytic or otherwise positive effects of the three. Some people, however, do get a lot of benefit from Baclofen in this regard, so I would say it might be worth trying. Just don't expect it to be an earth-shattering experience.

So, you only take the Hydroxyzine at night or do you sometimes take it during the day as well?

Also, OP, in the future, you can simply edit your post to include things that you may have originally forgotten. It's a little bit cleaner and less cluttersome than double posting. No big deal though.
 
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I usually take the hydroxyzine 1.5 hours before I go to sleep. I have taken it sometimes during the day but then it's not really doing much in terms of anxiety. I guess the combination of a long deep sleep with the residual effects make me less anxious.

How much hydroxyzine did you take? It primarily blocks the H1 receptor and has much less affinity for the 5-HT2A receptor (Ki values of 2nM and 50nM respectively) so I guess you need a high dose to feel the 5-HT2A mediated anxiolysis.


Does clonidine work for a long time (all night long)? Another problem I have with sleep is waking up multiple times during the night if I don't take a long acting hypnotic drug.
 
Okay, I've never really dealt with night-time awakening, only initial insomnia. Unless I'm in withdrawal or other extenuating circumstances, if I can get to sleep initially, I'll stay asleep. I can tell you though that when I take Clonidine, the initial, sleepy feeling that I get is still felt residually in the morning and sometimes leads to me sleeping in too long. I think Clonidine, taken once should be enough to keep you alseep through the night.

I agree that just having a good night's sleep makes all the difference the following day in terms of how one feels physically and psychologically. Also, I think that just being sedated, even slightly can contribute to feeling less anxious. Honestly though, the peripheral side effects of antihistamines, I believe the anticholinergic effects are what give me those uncomfortable feelings.
 
Baclofen, I've only had one trial run with (a month's prescription). I didn't get a lot of benefit from it; hardly any really. I took 4x the intended dosage once and I went to sleep, only to wake up the next morning feeling groggy and off. Baclofen is a GABAergic drug, related to things like Pregabalin (Lyrica), Gabapentin (Neurontin) and Phenibut (OTC), but in my experience, it possesses nowhere near the anxiolytic or otherwise positive effects of the three. Some people, however, do get a lot of benefit from Baclofen in this regard, so I would say it might be worth trying. Just don't expect it to be an earth-shattering experience.

That is because you are comparing a GABAb agonist to 3 calcium blockers granted phenibut shares the GABAb agonism most of the effect is calcium related. Same skeleton doesnt always mean same effect.

I understand this. I wasn't implying that Baclofen was similar to the others in any significant way. They are related enough to draw a minor comparison though.
 
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That is because you are comparing a GABAb agonist to 3 calcium blockers granted phenibut shares the GABAb agonism most of the effect is calcium related. Same skeleton doesnt always mean same effect.

I understand this. I wasn't implying that Baclofen was similar to the others in any significant way. They are related enough to draw a minor comparison though.

Right, I understand this. No one was implying that Baclofen has similar effects to Pregabalin, Gabapentin or Phenibut. They are just related chemically in a minor way, that's all. I think you'll find in my post that I've indicated a pretty significant difference between Baclofen's effects and those of the other three.
 
Oh and by the way, how is baclofen in terms of insomnia and anxiety?

At 80mg of Baclofen I had unpleasant dry mouth and felt drunk. Slurred my words and was a bit tired. Woke up with a hangover. My body felt heavy and had difficulty walking up stairs. I had trouble keeping my eyes focused, as everytime I looked at something my eyes would stray or "lean".

Ha. Baclofen.
 
Okay, I've never really dealt with night-time awakening, only initial insomnia. Unless I'm in withdrawal or other extenuating circumstances, if I can get to sleep initially, I'll stay asleep. I can tell you though that when I take Clonidine, the initial, sleepy feeling that I get is still felt residually in the morning and sometimes leads to me sleeping in too long. I think Clonidine, taken once should be enough to keep you alseep through the night.

I agree that just having a good night's sleep makes all the difference the following day in terms of how one feels physically and psychologically. Also, I think that just being sedated, even slightly can contribute to feeling less anxious. Honestly though, the peripheral side effects of antihistamines, I believe the anticholinergic effects are what give me those uncomfortable feelings.

Ok, what dose should I think off? (clonidine)
 
Speaking as someone who's currently prescribed 50mg Hydroxyzine pills to take three times daily, I can say it doesn't work too well for my anxiety. I have pretty moderate anxiety and agoraphobia.

My previous psych doc had me on Clonidine 0.1mg to take up to twice nightly if one didn't work. Of course, one didn't, but I've been dealing with insomnia for years. 0.2mg did have me quite relaxed, but I'd take one and wait about a half hour to take the other if you don't feel too tired.

I was taken off Clonidine and am now trying Temazepam 7.5mg.. that doesn't seem to be working too well either. But everyone's different! Taking 25mg of Diphenhydramine might help too.
 
Okay so I took 0.1, 0.15 and 0.2mg clonidine. It didn't make me feel very tired like antihistamines do but I did manage to fall asleep within 20 minutes.

The next day after the 0.2mg my bloodpressure was lower and so was my heartrate. (BP 120/70 and BPM 60)

Is it safe to take 0.3mg and is it more sedating then 0.2mg?
 
If I'm not mistaken, your vital statistics are actually pretty good. Why do you need to escalate the dose if you were able to fall asleep within 20 minutes?

The higher dose would be more sedating. I don't think it would hurt anything, but I would consider .3mg in one go to be at the upper end of dosing without tolerance and with otherwise normal blood pressure. Slight Hypotension isn't going to kill you, but there are some negative effects associated with the condition, like fainting and excessive tiredness.
 
Baclofen will get you a little sleepy......that was my experience, but it won't cure insomnia!! No way !
 
I work in a mental health hospital, and we give the patients Vistaril as a PRN medication (to take as needed when they need to calm down). The patients always bitch and moan (of course they are trapped on a psych ward), that the Vistaril sucks and they need something "more." But, the doctors won't typically prescribe benzos on the ward for obvious reasons.....but, they will give clonidine, and the patients rarely complain about that (for sleep especially)!
 
If I'm not mistaken, your vital statistics are actually pretty good. Why do you need to escalate the dose if you were able to fall asleep within 20 minutes?

The higher dose would be more sedating. I don't think it would hurt anything, but I would consider .3mg in one go to be at the upper end of dosing without tolerance and with otherwise normal blood pressure. Slight Hypotension isn't going to kill you, but there are some negative effects associated with the condition, like fainting and excessive tiredness.

Because I woke up very early in the morning. Also it would be nice if I still have some residual effects into the next day for anxtiety issues.
 
I take 50 mg hydroxyzine, .1 mg of clonidine, and 100 mg trazadone at night. Works really good for sleep. It doesnt do much for me with anxiety. My favorite is clonidine. Many uses. Just take too much. You dont want your heart rate to bottom out
 
I work in a mental health hospital, and we give the patients Vistaril as a PRN medication (to take as needed when they need to calm down). The patients always bitch and moan (of course they are trapped on a psych ward), that the Vistaril sucks and they need something "more." But, the doctors won't typically prescribe benzos on the ward for obvious reasons.....but, they will give clonidine, and the patients rarely complain about that (for sleep especially)!

So people are bad off enough to be in a psych ward and the docs still won't prescribe benzos, not even in a controlled environment like that? I don't see the harm in having a relaxed patient I mean of they're in a psych ward their problems must be pretty bad. Seems like it'd be better for the patient and the ward in general to have a properly medicated patient(s) as opposed to those upset that they're not getting the desired relief. I just don't see the harm of a therapeutic dose of a benzo in a controlled setting if the patient really needs it. Just my opinion FWIW.
 
Because I woke up very early in the morning. Also it would be nice if I still have some residual effects into the next day for anxtiety issues.

There is a form of Clonidine by the name of Kapvay if I'm not mistaken that is just an extended release form of the drug. This could potentially solve your problem of night-time awakening. Also, why not just take a small dose of Clonidine in the morning before you start your day instead of being in want for residual effects from the previous night?

So people are bad off enough to be in a psych ward and the docs still won't prescribe benzos, not even in a controlled environment like that? I don't see the harm in having a relaxed patient I mean of they're in a psych ward their problems must be pretty bad. Seems like it'd be better for the patient and the ward in general to have a properly medicated patient(s) as opposed to those upset that they're not getting the desired relief. I just don't see the harm of a therapeutic dose of a benzo in a controlled setting if the patient really needs it. Just my opinion FWIW.

The whole reason people are in places like locked Psychiatric Wards is because (usually) the institution is trying to address the patients' issues and find ways to reintroduce them into society. Sure, Benzodiazepines work like a charm in the short-term, but they are not an effective solution in and of themselves. They are a shortcut to feeling normal without the patient really needing to figure anything out for themselves regarding their condition. I think in the interest of time, the Doctors would rather try to give the patient a long-term solution, especially while they are directly under their care.
 
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