Clinoptilolite, Zeolite as heavy metal detox - any opinions?

[JohnBoy2000]

Branded as Advanced TRS (toxin removal system) by an company called Coseva - think they're based out of Oz, though apparently it was some 5 time PhD that patented the product.

Not necessarily to say I intend to use this for myself but - heavy metal blood contamination, for some reason, does seem to be an issue with some people.

As in, they get their blood tests and heavy metals show as being far exceeding normal levels.
They experience symptoms etc - and naturally seek treatment.

Historically, "chelating" agents seem to have been the go to for metal toxicity - though with some chelators, apparently there's high danger when taken whilst having amalgam fillings in the mouth - they draw toxic mercury out of the fillings, or something.....

Clinoptilolite, whether it's designated as a chelating agent or no, I'm not sure but, apparently some effect of trapping and removing heavy metals with less danger.

There threads on reddit etc - that sing the praises of this product.
I haven't read anything condemning it outright - but some of the "praises" come across suspiciously like a sales pitch.

But hey, there's people that have suffered for years with perhaps toxicity that general medicine has difficulty identifying and treating so, I guess if it's true there's benefit to this - well and good.

Anyone hear of it?

Opinions on it?


Edit - this is relevant to NS&P as, heavy metals are known to cross the blood brain barrier, accumulate in the brain, and potentially precipitate all kinds of neurological issues.
This doesn't seem entirely well characterized in the area of neuroscience but, it is a documented occurrence.

 

[S.J.B.]

This is pure snake oil. Do they have controlled clinical trials in humans? Didn't think so. Looking into their website, it's full of shifty claims based on little or poor research.

 

[Hodor]

Zeolites are alumosilicates, i.e. minerals that contain a significant amount of aluminium.

It is pretty fucked up that the same people that tell you you're getting autism and god knows what else from the tiny amounts of aluminium found in vaccines are the ones telling you to eat shitloads of it in zeolite form to "detox" yourself.

As SJB said, this crap is utter snake oil.

 

[Skorpio]

Anybody offering chelation therapy for non acute heavy metal poisoning is a charlatan.

Chelation therapy is fairly harmful on it's own and is not worth performing except for dire cases of poisoning.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

I'm just gonna give my personal two cents on the subject - in light of the above - at least as I see it thus far.

First - facebook groups.
Lots and lots of - facebook groups.

Very convincing, but all the case reports are typically accumulated in meme format and, although they convey somewhat miracle alleviation of symptoms such as autism like or symptoms consistent with neurodegeneration or neural dysfunction that, I mean - they'd strike hope into anyone's gut - I later went onto read on wikipedia that this can be known as a phenomenon called "astroturfing".
There are occasional verification of of these claims via outside users but - that's the situation as I see it there.

For me - I gauge a situation really, on kind of a personal resonance - based on personalities, obviously.

Having contacted the group administrator of one such group, who was also a sales person for the product TRS (toxin removal system), a clinoptilolite containing product - I just got the sense that she was either not quite "all there", or had some kind of hippy-esque condition - or maybe she was a fucking charlaton - who knows?

Naturally it's hard to gauge over facebook messages and profile pics but - I mean, that was my intuitive take away from the situation.


That being said - there are articles on google scholar that do illustrate that clinoptilolite can be an effective way to absorb heavy metals - albeit it's typically used in waste water management.

There are additionally some studies from naturopath based outlets/investments, that do seem to claim the efficacy of clinoptilolite in removal of toxic heavy metals;

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.554.6754&rep=rep1&type=pdf

The main wikipedia page on toxic heavy metal chelation - does not feature clinoptilolite, but mentions other forms of chelation, which do not seem to be administered without considerable risk - and supplementation is necessary whilst taking them.

Urine tests seem to be favored over blood tests of elemental mercury (the amalgam kind).
Organic/inorganic seems to show up better with blood tests - and normally high levels here come from fish.

The difference in neural interaction between elemental and organic/inorganic mercury - I'm not certain on, though as far as amalgams go, it seems their danger presents in the form in Hg0 elemental mercury inhalation, as oppose to GI tract absorption.
Though actually just looking at one paper now, elemental mercury vapor inhalation can precipitate CNS fatigue and personality shifts - and it's levels are gauged via inorganic mercury in urine - where as organic/methylmercury toxicity is demonstrated more so in terms of kidney damage - among other things.

 

[Hodor]

That being said - there are articles on google scholar that do illustrate that clinoptilolite can be an effective way to absorb heavy metals - albeit it's typically used in waste water management.

You know, I was going to make some quip about how bleach is an effective way to kill bacteria and other pathogens, but that this doesn't mean it's a good idea to flush your colon with it... but then I realised that this is *literally* what people in these kinds of Facebook Groups are advocating for. There are literally people out there telling you to cure your kid's autism by chemically burning their intestines with a chlorine dioxide enema.

At any rate, here's a few things to consider:
* We generally know a lot about what mercury poisoning looks like; chronic or acute, you name it; due to man's rather cavalier usage of the wondrous liquid metal, there is now a massive body of studies related to how people were exposed to various amounts of mercury in workplace accidents, or when mercury-containing outflow from the chemical industry came back to bite us in the ass because mercury tends to get biomagnified along the food chain, leading to a lot of people getting various degrees of mercury poisoning from eating fish.
* Consequently, contrary to what certain Facebook Groups may claim, mercury poisoning is *not* hard to diagnose. We know exactly what the symptoms look like, and detecting mercury isn't hard either.
* Also, consider that mercury and other heavy metals are part of nature. The human body is, all in all, a fairly rugged and adaptable machine. As Paracelsus used to say, "the dose is what makes the poison" - your body can handle amounts of mercury that are far, far greater than those which are released by dental amalgam; if the mercury released by dental amalgam could cause symptoms of mercury poisoning, then regularly eating sushi or tuna salad would be a death sentence.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Trying to join facebook groups (that have thousands of members), to learn more about this and hear experiences etc.

It's like a damn cult.
PM'ing with admins back and forth just to get access (they're "closed groups"), they want to know every damn thing - where'd I hear about it, who recommended it, what my dentists name is - lol.

This is the biggest group I could find on this product:

Aanmelden bij Facebook

Meld je aan bij Facebook om te delen en contact te maken met je vrienden, familie en mensen die je kent.

www.facebook.com

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Desperate people do desperate things.

Well, I'm desperate to get back to full functionality and healthy living so, I invested a bottle of this product.

Couple sprays in the mouth, no harm done - right?

Wrong.

It turned me into a non-walking zombie.

I could not get - out of muh bed.

Maybe I took too much?
Some say it's better to start with just half a spray.

I discontinued two days ago - yesterday was still wasted - but coming around a little today.

It's not so well researched so, hard to know what the cause is.

 

[sekio]

The problem with heavy metal poisoning is that they bioaccumulate in e.g. bone, fat, etc. Chelating agents are only effective against metals that come within physical contact, and do nothing to "liberate" stores of accumulated metal.

So if you are treating a wastewater stream it's probably more effective than trying to get heavy metals out of the CNS.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

The problem with heavy metal poisoning is that they bioaccumulate in e.g. bone, fat, etc. Chelating agents are only effective against metals that come within physical contact, and do nothing to "liberate" stores of accumulated metal.

So if you are treating a wastewater stream it's probably more effective than trying to get heavy metals out of the CNS.

But chelation agents are used by general medicine?

I believe Dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA) can cross the blood brain barrier?

 

[JohnBoy2000]

As to the product Clinoptilolite - this TRS - I've tried it for a while, gave it a rest, tried it again yesterday.

Today I feel like my CNS has taken a donkey punch.

I wanted to be optimistic, especially given the facebook page has 70k followers with one miracle story after the next, and seemingly with timely blood tests showing evident reduction in heavy metal presence.

For me personally, I can only conclude that this is an ineffective product with no benefit.