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Discussion Chronic pain sufferers and the ever-changing laws


This might become our only option.
This is what Canada is doing. Instead of medical treatment, they just want you to suicide and will even help you out with it.
insert disgusted face here.

IDK my fellow “Chronic pain “ AKA “ Degenerative condition “ sufferers.
Keep fighting until you cannot fight anymore!
We can support one another here the best that we can.
Much love to you all.
 
Years ago, when something was painful, you would go to the doctor, maybe get a prescription after a few tests. Then you would either feel better, or visit the doctor again and get something else. This system worked like a well-oiled machine for many years. The current assumption people have made is that because of the overprescribed, overuse of prescriptions, namely opioids, people escalated from prescription pain medicines to street drugs. The theory is that people with broken legs, toothaches, sprained ankles, or whatever ailment were getting unwarranted, strong pain medicines that were unnecessary and led them down a dark path into addiction (and possibly crime).
The laws have changed so drastically in the last 15 years that it has become very difficult to get pain medicine prescribed even if you need it. The scale has tipped into the opposite direction, too little is being prescribed and taken. These changes have made a devastating impact for two reasons: patients who have been on long-term prescribed pain medicine for chronic illnesses were denied their prescriptions, causing them to look elsewhere for relief, and the new people suffering from chronic illnesses and pain can't obtain a needed prescription and are treated like addicts for wanting them.

As a patient, you have to tiptoe on a thin line between advocating for yourself and appearing to be drug-seeking and denied medication. If you're "flagged" in the system as drug-seeking, you won't get any prescriptions in your town, or county, or state. This delicate tiptoeing is clouded even further for ex-addicts who are chronically ill.

Who should decide what kind of pain deserves prescription medicine? Who should decide how much or for how long? Why are we not allowed to decide for ourselves if pain medicine can be used to manage an illness? A person can buy as much beer or liquor from any store. We are allowed to decide when to stop drinking (an addictive substance), vaping nicotine, but not pain medicine?
In my country, the doctors of a province have an overseeing body of doctors restricting and keeping all prescribing doctors in line with the risk of prescribing doctor losing their license to practice if they don’t obey.
Who suffers with this system in place? The cancer patients and all pain patients.
 
Reading the o/p, it misses out how much an influence medicine for profit has. Because most people in tge UK use the NHS, which is not motivated by financial reward for docs, by prescribing meds, the UK has had nothing like the US rise in opioid problems. It's still a bit of a task to get NHS pain relief, the main criterion is not killing the patient, not how much money to be made.
Even so, I've had to 'guide' (to the point of almost being insulting) docs towards appropriate pain relief (with a 'no appropriate pain relief? Then I'll source it through other means' attitude, when required.) No drugseeking behaviour to get stoned, purely for pain relief.
 
Wow. I very well could be you. If I am, I'm so sorry. lol
Very similar issues to me.
And you're right, who wants to sit around thinking about their health all the time?
I feel forced to because of the issues, like if I don't feel physically okay, how am I expected to feel mentally okay ontop of it?
I'm so tired of all the SNRIs & antipsychotics. SNRI's have been making me puke & giving me hand tremors & extremely high body temperature.
I tell doctors this and they're like "omg, okay, well we better get you on another SNRI then"... Like.. helllloooooooo.
You're absolutely right. Doctors have no idea wtf they're talking about. Of course they know some thing but they don't know it all & they take it as offensive if their patient tries to educate them on anything.
I'm so frustrated with it that I've stopped even going or making appts, except to get my usual meds.
If I die, I die. At this point, maybe having a terminal illness would be a blessing & a ticket out of here. :\


Thanks for the suggestion!
I have not unfortunately. I've read about some but I'm not sure.

I've considered fibromyalgia & chronic fatigue. As I did have severe mono as a teenager that gave me bad brain fog & lethargy for awhile, but none of these doctors seem to wanna test for anything of the sort or go any further than xrays & catscans. If those & my bloodwork seem fine, they assume I'm fine, but I know damn well I'm not. Autoimmune or neurological issue does seem very likely though. I've had a few docs say it sounds like fibromyalgia but of course idk how you test for that & they don't seem to care to give me a proper diagnosis.

One issue I've had is severe all body-muscle aching. It feels exactly like how one would feel if they did a hard work out & woke up sore the next day. Except I feel this way everyday (give or a take a good day here or there) and I don't even work out anymore.
I might have had this problem for a long time but covered it up with heroin & tramadol & other drugs for years. I use to exercise a lot & go walking alot all through out my 20's on heroin & tramadol & loved it.
And now that I've been on bupe & had to stay 'clean', I've noticed these physical issues have really come to the forefront. Just getting up to go do normal everyday stuff like go to the store can hurt like hell & rob me of my energy. Not to mention give me anxiety & irritability from having to do it. This is not the quality of life I'd like to have forever. And apparently nobody can tell me what it is.
A medical degree in the UK involves two terms of pharmacology out of a 5 year degree (my friend, who is a consultant pathologist said most docs are ignorant of modern pharmacology (she did a biochem degree before her medical one, so was aware of all the shortfalls).
Try correcting a doc when you look like me (I've had the 'scruffy long haired druggie' response so often, that the slightest hint and I go into pharmacology overdrive with a hint of 'don't fuck with me' attitude. May not get an apiology for previous reactions, but they quickly haveto revise their opinion. OK for me, but not everyone has the background I have in pharmacology, so still pretty crap)
 
Years ago, when something was painful, you would go to the doctor, maybe get a prescription after a few tests. Then you would either feel better, or visit the doctor again and get something else. This system worked like a well-oiled machine for many years. The current assumption people have made is that because of the overprescribed, overuse of prescriptions, namely opioids, people escalated from prescription pain medicines to street drugs. The theory is that people with broken legs, toothaches, sprained ankles, or whatever ailment were getting unwarranted, strong pain medicines that were unnecessary and led them down a dark path into addiction (and possibly crime).
The laws have changed so drastically in the last 15 years that it has become very difficult to get pain medicine prescribed even if you need it. The scale has tipped into the opposite direction, too little is being prescribed and taken. These changes have made a devastating impact for two reasons: patients who have been on long-term prescribed pain medicine for chronic illnesses were denied their prescriptions, causing them to look elsewhere for relief, and the new people suffering from chronic illnesses and pain can't obtain a needed prescription and are treated like addicts for wanting them.

As a patient, you have to tiptoe on a thin line between advocating for yourself and appearing to be drug-seeking and denied medication. If you're "flagged" in the system as drug-seeking, you won't get any prescriptions in your town, or county, or state. This delicate tiptoeing is clouded even further for ex-addicts who are chronically ill.

Who should decide what kind of pain deserves prescription medicine? Who should decide how much or for how long? Why are we not allowed to decide for ourselves if pain medicine can be used to manage an illness? A person can buy as much beer or liquor from any store. We are allowed to decide when to stop drinking (an addictive substance), vaping nicotine, but not pain medicine?
same here in NZ. Dr's are so anal about prescription pain killers unless you are shacked up in a hospice. I had this experience last week with a locum.
 
When my bother and I were like 13 & 15 we had our wisdom teeth removed…..we both received a plastic jar of 60 Percocet EACH …..Canadian Endocet TEC’s by ApoTex (5mg Oxycodone/325mg Acetaminophen)

Just 3-4 tablets could have caused serious sedation / CNS depressant …..my mom took both our jars away after a few days of taking 2 daily morning and after dinner


NEVER would they do this after Purdue Pharma cluster f@ck of opioid addiction

However….if you have a legitimate chronic medical condition and require opioids, you will get them…..after seeing a pain specialist and solid medical records/diagnosis to back it up….your pain specialist will work you up until your pain is under control…..then after you’re stable and safe, your family doc could take over scripts after the specialist vouches on your condition

I get monthly Methadone 80mg daily ….a sealed 100 tablet bottle every month / Canadian Methadone tablets

So…..for legitimate situations denying a patient adequate pain management is inhumane and should be illegal for a doc to do, considering no doctor shopping, drug seeking behaviour, dirty urine analysis (if required) etc

Any Methadone clinic btw will work you up to a high dose if you really wanted……go in with a few track marks, or not….urine with opioids present…..and every few days or week you go back you request higher doses….until you’re at Methadone 100-150mg daily……which is heavy for an opioid tolerant individual. This doc has a legal obligation to write you a script if your life is run by illicit drug use, crime reduction, lower risks for patient, stability in patients life, etc

U.S. has been hit the hardest by far….Florida pill mills, doctors loosing their license for insanely giving Oxy 80’s to opioid nieve individuals, high levels of opioid related deaths, O.D.’s etc

The doc is concerned about their medical license and avoiding liability for a patients death FIRST …….Pain specialist is the best bet…..average family docs are tools and know fuck all about the entire spectrum of proper opioid prescribing / safety / monitoring, etc
 
Try correcting a doc when you look like me
I tried correcting a doctor during my first pregnancy when everyone thought I looked about 15 (I was 25), she had a strange deafness to reason and was very patronising, talking to me like a child. Eventually she asked, "Have you got a partner?" to which I replied, "I'm married", haha, she nearly fell off her chair. Then she checked my details on the file, apologised and started talking normally to me, she was really embarrassed, lol.
 
Getting methadonr for opioid dependence, rather than severe pain, means your driving licence is revoked...
Is that in the UK? I didn't know that, there goes plan B if they ever take my buprenorphine off me (prescribed for pain), or if I really can't stick it on a partial agonist, I thought I could just test positive for opiates then get some methadone, but I like my driving license.
Mind you it isn't a fully UK license, not issued from GB but from the country of my birth instead, so it might be OK.
 
Is that in the UK? I didn't know that, there goes plan B if they ever take my buprenorphine off me (prescribed for pain), or if I really can't stick it on a partial agonist, I thought I could just test positive for opiates then get some methadone, but I like my driving license.
Mind you it isn't a fully UK license, not issued from GB but from the country of my birth instead, so it might be OK.
The DVLA may wish to inform otherwise...
 
The DVLA may wish to inform otherwise...
So it is the normal thing in the UK to lose your driving license if you're on opioid maintenance?
I'm hoping you'll come back and say, no, they only take your license if you crash or have points already?
 
So it is the normal thing in the UK to lose your driving license if you're on opioid maintenance?
I'm hoping you'll come back and say, no, they only take your license if you crash or have points already?
Just methadone afaik. Daftwhen you consider some people are on doses of other opioids that exceed methadone. If methadone is prescribed purely for pain relief, it's acceptable, but not if prescribed for opioid dependence (after a couple of weeks, there is no difference)
 
After 20 years I was finally prescribed OxyContin. 40mg BID. But over the last month I've cut that down to below 30mg BID so I have entire unopened boxes of the stuff. I do not sell drugs, I do not give them way (because people do get harmed) but slowly, slowly, slowly I have ended up with 3 unopened boxes....

I guess if life suddenly becomes untenable, I would expect 1.5 grams of OxyContin and a hot cup of tea would offer a fairly painless way out.

Oh, and Fast&Bulbous mentioned oxymorphone. Well, a chemist with the unforgetable name of Peter X. Wang developed a route from oxycodone to oxymorphone with a yield >97% (and I think the 3% is down to mechanical losses). But do people REALLY think a blanket of xenon is required? Wouldn't dry nitrogen work just as well?

The key (borrowed from a 1980s patent) is the use of a 'rate enhancer' (why not catalyst) with H3BO3 being the best, speeding up o-demethylation by a factor of 5......

I mean, if one HAD a lot of oxycodone, 3,6,14 triacetoxymorphone is supposed to be some x60 M i.e. worthwhile!
 
After 20 years I was finally prescribed OxyContin. 40mg BID. But over the last month I've cut that down to below 30mg BID so I have entire unopened boxes of the stuff. I do not sell drugs, I do not give them way (because people do get harmed) but slowly, slowly, slowly I have ended up with 3 unopened boxes....

I guess if life suddenly becomes untenable, I would expect 1.5 grams of OxyContin and a hot cup of tea would offer a fairly painless way out.

Oh, and Fast&Bulbous mentioned oxymorphone. Well, a chemist with the unforgetable name of Peter X. Wang developed a route from oxycodone to oxymorphone with a yield >97% (and I think the 3% is down to mechanical losses). But do people REALLY think a blanket of xenon is required? Wouldn't dry nitrogen work just as well?

The key (borrowed from a 1980s patent) is the use of a 'rate enhancer' (why not catalyst) with H3BO3 being the best, speeding up o-demethylation by a factor of 5......

I mean, if one HAD a lot of oxycodone, 3,6,14 triacetoxymorphone is supposed to be some x60 M i.e. worthwhile!
Proof that, in the end, socialized medicine is the only civilized way forward. Hope it keeps pain at bay.

Merry xmas
 
Yeah - thanks mate. I take as prescribed (i.e. swallow the pills whole every 12 hours) and it works. Again, WHY they don't make the pills the size of paracetamol I do not know. With that many bulking agents and so forth, it would be totally impossible to use in any other manner. I GUESS you might be able to plug them.... but no snorting, no shooting, no smoking and so forth.

In the US they went through 4 revisions. They tried EVERYTHING apart from making them BIG. THAT is how the Dutch provide Physeptone...
 
This country im at right now is weird... U can go to any pharmacy and ask for whatever you want without prescription, and they will just hand it to you. And i mean bupe, morphine, seriously just whatever you want... Except for my drug of choice, heroin. Fuck me, right?
My roommate just woke up with the nastiest abscess and was like "brb imma go get tramadol and some rigs to drain that thing" ewwwwwww
What pharmacy can you walk into and get whatever you want for drugs?
 
What pharmacy can you walk into and get whatever you want for drugs?
If you can get anything, he should get fluoxacillin, or if allergic doxycycline or chlorethromycin, to prevent abscess turning into sepsis (like with my cat triggered abscess)
 
At me u ain'g much choise,if u are chronic pain patient(except cancer)-injuriee,low back pain,neuralgia pain-gaba's...in fact OTC,eventually tramadol or dhc.That's it.No other options.Methadone&morphine programs.No bupr.programs....some otc pills with codeine.This u've got
.
.
 
Yeah - thanks mate. I take as prescribed (i.e. swallow the pills whole every 12 hours) and it works. Again, WHY they don't make the pills the size of paracetamol I do not know. With that many bulking agents and so forth, it would be totally impossible to use in any other manner. I GUESS you might be able to plug them.... but no snorting, no shooting, no smoking and so forth.

In the US they went through 4 revisions. They tried EVERYTHING apart from making them BIG. THAT is how the Dutch provide Physeptone...
Putting glycoside polymers, that absorb water by the bucketload, would stop unintended use, if made into big tablets, as you suggest. Trying to extract drug just ends up with this horrible, wobbling lump of wallpaper paste, that you can't even plug.
I regret posting info about how to seperate drug from wax matrix, with toluene (I originally used benzene, but that set off bouts of OCD type washing of the final product, with anhydrous isopropanol. I've hammerd my bladder enough with ketamine, so exposing it to a chemical that causes bladder cancer just ssems adding insult to injury), but the latest iteration of morphine in a wax matrix, also have said glycoside polymer. Physeptone tablets have none of those provisions and dissolve in hot water completely (well they did several years ago).
Fucking ridiculous...
 
I couldn't agree more with everyone this form. I suffered from DDD and incurable disease that they can only slow down and for fucking two God damn years told me I was just making up fucking shit because I want to drugs. Oh really yeah that's why I can't lift up my leg in most of my toes sure yeah that makes sense why would person would intentionally not use one of their fucking legs and most of their toes for for several years (in total 11 fucking years) makes sense. I swear to God most of these doctors either got their God damn degree from Devry or Kinko's or they just don't give a fuck about Around the Clock chronic pain patients. If I want to take fentanyl or Dilaudid or Opana or all of them at the same time it's my fucking choice! Anytime there's a doctor that tells you I'm not prescribing you your routine pain medication and you're in my situation remember this there's a law called continuity of care if you were on a medication for 6 months or a year or what have you just a long enough time to say it's your routine maintenance medication and they don't prescribe that medication to you and tell you to screw off they are breaking the law. Mind you that is in the setting of you getting to pain management from your primary care physician and the pain management doctor saying screw off which has happened to me 10,000 times over. Even when I go to a hospital or like again? I'm like yes again I see a pain psychologist and a psychotherapist I've tried every other means not to be on opioids but these dick heads keep telling me to try other things. Even though it's been 10 years on Dilaudid and Opana! My mother works for one of the largest insurance companies in America and the goddamn insurance company is approved my medication till the year 9,999 why God's fucking name am I having any trouble? Dumbass regulations and doctors that would rather care about their license than actually giving a fuck about the patient. I really don't care if you're a drug user or a chronic pain patient it's pretty much the same fucking thing at a certain point so to all the doctors who denied patients access to care whether it was in a hospital outpatient procedure or just routine medication eat Hepatitis B ass and die. That's my rant for today I'm out peace ✌️.
It's easier to get meds for addiction than those same meds for pain.
 
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