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Chrloroform for a worst-case bad trip

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CrypticArc

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Jun 18, 2013
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This is just an idea, but the thought occurred to me to maybe keep some chloroform hidden somewhere in my house, because it could be useful next time someone takes too much acid or something and gets violent. I feel like it could prevent someone from getting arrested or hit by a car if they were unable to tell what was going on around them and were in a situation where they could potentially escape. It could also save them some mental trauma. Of course this could be dangerous depending on the drug but do you guys think it could work for LSD freak-outs?
 
I dunno, holding someone down who is freaking out on psychedelics and chloroforming them sounds pretty rough.
 
I think this is a terrible idea. I have heard that giving someone too many benzos in the middle of a bad freakout can be much more damaging to the person caught in the crisis than letting them ride it out because it will give their mind no time to reintegrate and make sense of the experience. I can see the use of chloroform as something that would do more harm than good in the long run.

Chloroform will also damage the liver, and will only knock the person out for a matter of minutes before they regain consciousness. It can also cause skin irritation on the face where it makes contact with the skin. I would highly advise against ever doing this to someone caught in a bad acid trip already.
 
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I've never seen anyone get violent from a bad trip. While i don't doubt that it probably happens sometimes, it surely means you're tripping with the wrong people.
This seems dangerous and thoroughly unnecessary.
 
If someone is experiencing a bad enough trip on a classical 5-HT psychedelic that it requires something like chloroform, IMO they should NOT be tripping in the first place. If you're either dosing high enough to lose site of reality, or simply not mentally "strong enough" to keep your shit together when things go sour, you shouldn't be dabbling in mind-altering substances, period.

Good thought though, aside from chloroforms apparent toxicity etc. But yeah, as above - if it's necessary, the subject should not be taking drugs to begin with.
 
Yeah, fuck chloroform. Give 'em sustained propofol (mmm, milk of amnesia) instead. (I'm joking).
 
Bad bad idea. There's a reason modern medicine stopped using chloroform a long time ago - it's toxic, carcinogenic, difficult to dose properly. I think you need to find other solutions to a freak out, which should probably include less drugs in the first place.
 
A small dose of benzos. Not enough to knock them out, but enough to calm them down would be better.

For me, I had a bad trip that a IM shot of heroin helped quite a bit. All the pain I was feeling that was making me think people were hurting me subsided.
 
for strong anxiety benzos are suitable, for really bad freakouts (psychotic behavior), I'd rather give them some antipsychotics...
 
If you are so petrified of a bad trip and would even consider using chloroform to put the kibosh on one, then I'd stay REALLY far away from psychedelics if I were you. You are almost willing a bad trip to be with that kind of a mind-set. It makes about as much sense as hitting yourself over the head with a mallet...
 
See I could only see this as a solution for drugs of the stimulant variety, but not for psychedelics because you calm them down with a few simple words.
 
Just do standard procedure and zip tie them to the floor if they get violent. There is no need to induce a coma if you are going to go that far you must call the professionals. I have dealt with literally half a dozen people in a psychotic episode due to psychedelics and it is not for any of the reasons mentioned. Sure the people who did the drugs shouldnt have or should have done that amount but my cousin had never done more then one hit of acid and wanted to try 3 so he did and flipped out. My friend took 2 rolls of tested MDMA in new york and i had to carry him for 3 hours while he shouted at people. I could go on and only 1 was with an unknown substance and no one could give me info on what he took so we had to wait the 18 hours until he was able to tell us what he remembered.

Please dont go and blame people for their mistakes by saying things like "they should have known better or not have been tripping" how would they know that if they reacted fine once and have no history of medical issues. Also there is a huge difference between psychotic break and a bad trip. A trip someone is aware but freaking out a break they are not there at all but tehy are active. They have "super human strength" because they are not bound by the feeling in their body and they will punch their mothers until they die because they think they are Satan. This is a very serious matter and it can not be removed by changing the music or talking to the person. If you do psychedelics with people you must be aware they can have a break.

My understanding of how to act and what to do makes people literally call me in these situations. If the person is crazy i will come over if they need talking down i can advise people over the phone. I jokingly said to my girlfriend as we were called to handle her brother (the unknown amount and substance which i am working on identifying suspected 25I related sped over a hydroscopic carrier to increase mass to sell as molly I am ordering a battery of tests, everyone i can get online and then sending it to a lab if i think that is the case, my biggest fear being someone discovered they can do this.) I jokingly said if there were a psychedelic trauma hospital i would be the emergency surgeon/integration expert because i get phone calls roll up handle the situation and then have them tell me what they saw and try to get them to make sense of it. He is really bothered by "buying molly and going insane for 18 hours", and i tried to tell him how important it was to test shit over a year ago, now he believes me.

Also I fully understand the volatility of the situation and would not hesitate to make the call if i had to but the whole idea is traumatic experiences lead to flash backs and persisting issues, if i can prevent him from getting tazed hand cuffed jammed full of IVs while tripping then it is in everyones best interest i show up and do the job, i much prefer it that way. I have tackled them to the ground said "i am sorry" as i cover their mouths to muffle their screams (my cousin) you dont know what its like until you do it and i would prefer i did it over people going "is he on acid is that acid it has to be"
 
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I would say as someone who has inhaled chloroform recreationally this is not a good idea and will not turn out like you plan. As far as my experience goes it is a very intense buzz like most inhalants but i wouldn’t say it can knock you out any faster than air duster. Also like all inhalants ive tried they come with a strong nausea side effect and you wouldnt want someone to spill guts in a situation like that.
 
Bottle of jim beam would be better than chloroform, if someones getting violent though there's not much you can do besides restrain. They're beyond reason at that point. I've never seen this happen
 
I was thinking a dart of carfentanil would do the trick.

That is why I keep a tranquilizer gun on hand for when trips go bad. After having tried various methods for restraining someone in a psychedelic crisis (incinerating them with a hand grenade, locking them in the trunk of a car, waterboarding, etc.) I find that they work quite well.
 
Sometimes a swift kick to the nuts does wonders for a person. Probably safer than chloroform cryptic. I honestly have never witnessed a freak out where I have ever had to administer anything. I just stick to the folks I know that are tried and true. I don't like tripping around noobs tbh.
 
Punching the psycho repeatedly in the face works well too!

Also, a chokehold while whispering "shhhh...shhhh...it's sleepytime now..." while the individual slowly loses consciousness works well
 
As we've established, chloroform is not going to work. Benzos are better.

To quote myself from another recent thread ...

SKL said:
4mg clonazepam is way too much. More like 0.5-1mg but not too fast acting. Unless, of course, you have a huge tolerance.
Ativan is a decent option, 1-2mg to start, up to 4 if necessary, and it can be given i.m. if you have the proper formulation in vials (few will.)
Xanax is a poor choice, leads to amnesia, blackouts, nudity, etc. in the context of psychedelics/other drugs.
RC benzos are not well enough understood, stick with the tried and true.
Valium is ideal, 10mg-ish to start or more with tolerance, 5 if you're small or sensitive, up to 30-40 if you have a high tolerance. Librium probably OK too.
Bromazepam is good if you can get it.
A hypnotic like temazepam or Dalmane might be a decent option to knock you out totally, but I'd go with the anxiolytic options above.
Don't combine with booze or other downers.

also useful: hydroxyzine, an antihistamine sedative with 5ht2a antagonist qualities
anti-psychotics can be of some utility in the management of acutely agitated states, Leary recommends 50mg chlorpromazine i.m. which is probably a good starting place, in a clinical setting I'd use haldol 5/ativan 2 i.m. q1-2h until the patient is no longer agitated. Thorazine is appealing because it is promiscuous across different receptors, as LSD is albeit in the other direction, haldol a bit less so.

In re: Haldol and Thorazine, I'm talking about acutely agitated states and threat to sef/others, or a great deal of noise in your private residence that is going to attract untoward attention ... I used to keep a few vials/ampules on hand just in case an extreme situation were to occur when we were taking psychedelics, never had to use them. Kept 'em in my emergency kit with my narcan and BVM.

And actually, yeah, now that you'd mention it I'd probably add 50 benadryl to the 5/2, now that you mention it, but not too many times, for risk of delirium. Too much Ativan can also be disinhibiting. But anyway this is a rapid sedation protocol familiar to psych ER docs and while I would hope it would never be necessary to undertake it at the home or in a festival tent, I always came prepared to do so.

Zydis is not a bad choice, although I tend to go the more traditional route(s). As far as receptor promiscuity in neuroleptics go clozapine probably takes the cake but for obvious reasons isn't a good choice for acute administration. The classic choice in these cases has always been Thorazine but Haldol/Benadryl/Ativan 5/50/2 repeated as necessary is probably the best choice to rapidly bring down the severely agitated subject.

But yeah, Valium is my best recommendation, barring aforementioned severe agitation. Ativan a close second.

Also just the idea of having BZDs/a trip-stopper on hand can be of comfort with anxiety on the come-up anyway.

Source: I do this for a living.

morninggloryseed said:
Just beat 'em in the face till they calm the fuck down.

It's been known to work.

szuko000 said:
Just do standard procedure and zip tie them to the floor if they get violent. There is no need to induce a coma if you are going to go that far you must call the professionals.

Zip tie? Is that serious? Because using antipsychotics and benzos which are pretty safe (absent concomitant use of alcohol, opiates, etc) is probably a lot better, and can in many cases be done without calling professionals. Not everyone will have access to the i.m. formulations, but they can probably be found by the determined.

I have dealt with literally half a dozen people in a psychotic episode due to psychedelics and it is not for any of the reasons mentioned. Sure the people who did the drugs shouldnt have or should have done that amount but my cousin had never done more then one hit of acid and wanted to try 3 so he did and flipped out. My friend took 2 rolls of tested MDMA in new york and i had to carry him for 3 hours while he shouted at people. I could go on and only 1 was with an unknown substance and no one could give me info on what he took so we had to wait the 18 hours until he was able to tell us what he remembered.

Please dont go and blame people for their mistakes by saying things like "they should have known better or not have been tripping" how would they know that if they reacted fine once and have no history of medical issues. Also there is a huge difference between psychotic break and a bad trip. A trip someone is aware but freaking out a break they are not there at all but tehy are active. They have "super human strength" because they are not bound by the feeling in their body and they will punch their mothers until they die because they think they are Satan. This is a very serious matter and it can not be removed by changing the music or talking to the person. If you do psychedelics with people you must be aware they can have a break.
Yes
Also I fully understand the volatility of the situation and would not hesitate to make the call if i had to but the whole idea is traumatic experiences lead to flash backs and persisting issues, if i can prevent him from getting tazed hand cuffed jammed full of IVs while tripping then it is in everyones best interest i show up and do the job, i much prefer it that way. I have tackled them to the ground said "i am sorry" as i cover their mouths to muffle their screams (my cousin) you dont know what its like until you do it and i would prefer i did it over people going "is he on acid is that acid it has to be"
Yes, although pharmacological intervention will help too

Wutang_forever said:
Bottle of jim beam would be better than chloroform, if someones getting violent though there's not much you can do besides restrain. They're beyond reason at that point. I've never seen this happen

Alcohol may help with anxiety in someone who's not really all that far gone, a few beers can help with a difficult come up, but if we're talking a bad situation and a lot of booze, the disinhibitory effects are a bad idea.

And if someone's getting violent, as we say on the psych ward, don't hesitate / to medicate.

manboychef said:
For me, I had a bad trip that a IM shot of heroin helped quite a bit. All the pain I was feeling that was making me think people were hurting me subsided.

I can't advocate i.m. heroin but can say from personal experience heroin can help a difficult psychedelic experience. Hopefully in someone experienced with heroin, though, and not taking concomitant drugs to increase overdose risk.

I remember a particularly unpleasant experience tripping with friends on mushrooms and shooting up dope and one of my buddies OD'd and started turning blue, we were all balls to the wall getting visuals and the blue was going in waves and stuff over his face, when this started happening I was in the middle of a shot, so I pressed down the plunger, jumped up just as the rush started hitting me, ripped out the rig and, blood spurting everywhere, I started smacking the shit out of him and dragging him into the shower. We narcan'd him and he lived, though he lost a tooth from getting smacked around ... memory lane ...

I think I live-reported this on an old PD social thread actually.
 
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