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Chemically, why is DMT not active orally or insufflated while 5-MeO-DMT is?

Z

Zeeman

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My understanding of organic chemistry is fairly rudimentary (just first year university chemistry and some self-reading into drug chemistry). But I'm very curious as to why these 2 chemicals with such similar doses and chemical structure get absorbed by the body so differently?

5-MeO seems to be active no matter which way you take it (albeit with different doses), but DMT needs to be smoked, or taken orally with an MAOI. Aren't they both monoamines that would be broken down quickly by monoamine oxidase? What makes 5-MeO active through these other ROAs?
 
Because the methoxy group blocks the oxidative action of monoamine oxidase by preventing it getting into the active "shape".
 
DMT is active nasally though, at a higher dose than smoked (not a whole lot higher though). It's indeed not active orally however.
 
@Transform
So you are saying that 5-meo-dmt is an MAO blocker, then why dmt and 5-meo-dmt last almost exactly as long?
Shouldn't 5-meo-dmt last longer by blocking MAO (well, it doesnt)
 
WSH said:
@Transform
So you are saying that 5-meo-dmt is an MAO blocker, then why dmt and 5-meo-dmt last almost exactly as long?
Shouldn't 5-meo-dmt last longer by blocking MAO (well, it doesnt)
Click to expand...

It's not what he's saying... 5-MeO-DMT is not a MAO blocker. The MAO enzyme is like a pair of scissors that can only cut certain shapes. By sticking the methoxy (5-MeO) group on the DMT, MAO can no longer cut it and you don't need to block MAO in order to get effects of it orally.
 
Xorkoth said:
DMT is active nasally though, at a higher dose than smoked (not a whole lot higher though). It's indeed not active orally however.
Click to expand...

Not fully active tho - the time I tried it all I got was slightly brighter colours. And that was with an MAOI so god knows what effect you get without an MAOI. It also gives you vicious red alkaline burns under each nostril.
 
It probably works better insufflating the salt than the freebase :)
 
I certainly looked a twat for a few days with two vicious red burns beneath each nostril.
 
Ismene said:
Not fully active tho - the time I tried it all I got was slightly brighter colours. And that was with an MAOI so god knows what effect you get without an MAOI. It also gives you vicious red alkaline burns under each nostril.
Click to expand...

A really good friend of mine has had a couple of very strong trips on 60-80mg nasally.
 
How long are the trips then when insufflating... ?
I've only vaporized DMT during my Doc, Mushroom, or LSD trips in the past.. I haven't ventured any other methods... yet...

I do plan to take DMT orally one day soon... with an MAOI... I do hope it is the same as using the plants... amazing stuff DMT
Thanks
 
I haven't tried it but supposedly longer, maybe an hour or so if I recall.
 
St3ve said:
It's not what he's saying... 5-MeO-DMT is not a MAO blocker. The MAO enzyme is like a pair of scissors that can only cut certain shapes. By sticking the methoxy (5-MeO) group on the DMT, MAO can no longer cut it and you don't need to block MAO in order to get effects of it orally.
Click to expand...

Of course MAO can still cut down 5-meo-dmt, both dmt and 5-meo-dmt are broken down rapidly within minutes.
 
Oral use of 5-MeO-DMT should be possible just like oral DPT use is possible, but the doses needed vary widely between individuals (probably due to differences in enzyme consitution)... in any case 5-MeO-DMT is a substrate for MAO but I guess a bit more difficult to metabolize than say DMT which AFAIK is extremely hard / near impossible if not to say entirely unpractical or uneconomical to get oral effects from. I would personally also worry about peripheral effects of taking high doses.

I think it is a little peculiar that IM dosing of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT both lasted quite long for me.. perhaps it leeches from the muscle relatively slowly? I don't know..
 
Solipsis said:
I think it is a little peculiar that IM dosing of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT both lasted quite long for me.. perhaps it leeches from the muscle relatively slowly? I don't know..
Click to expand...

I have tried both dmt and 5-meo-dmt via IM and the time course was identical:

0:00 injection
0:03 onset
0:08 peak
0:20 partially approaching reality
0:30 completely down

Who long does it last for you, Solipsis?
 
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Toltec said:
I do plan to take DMT orally one day soon... with an MAOI... I do hope it is the same as using the plants... amazing stuff DMT
Thanks
Click to expand...

Oral DMT with moclobemide is the big bang of psychedelics. The daddy :)
 
Ismene's right. Moclobemide is a super maoi for oral DMT purposes. And DPT. It bypassess the chunder-factor and seems to colour the DMT experience minimally.
 
I have had a couple of nasal experiences with DMT in white salt form. The first time was actually accidental and what made me realise I'd made an error (aside from the burning) was the unmistakable strangeness that DMT seems to bring on.

It was much weaker than the same dose smoked, but undoubtedly active. I was watching television wondering why my nose was hurting so much and roughly 2 minutes in i thought- i have to turn off the TV, everything just got far too odd, oh dear that was the DMT. The fact i ingested it after (stupidly) mistaking it for another powder somewhat eliminates the potential of a placebo effect taking place.

I don't have any insight into why this worked in a physiological sense unfortunately. The DMT i have is a fine white salt, as opposed to the more rock-like salmon coloured crystals i have occasionally come across.
 
I wouldn't recomend snorting DMT even with an MAOI. Either take it orally or smoke it. Anything else is moronic.
 
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