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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Changing codeine into something else, say morphine.

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Campington

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Aug 19, 2018
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Say you have quite a bit of codeine on your hands, what could it be changed into? Butt plugs aside here...

I mean, Codeine is made from morphine so surely there is a reaction you can perform to turn it back in to morphine, or maybe one to turn it into diamorphine.
And obvously I know nothing about organic chemistry.I
Apologies if this has been asked, I searched but couldnt any threads.
 
If there was a viable way of turning Codeine into Heroin then people would be on to it, There are people on here who take huge amounts of Codeine for the effects that it gives them.
 
But i'm sure codeine has a ceiling effect where your liver can only process so much.
I was just asking because i read an article about the 'shake and bake' for meth and it mentioned the same for codeine. I thought the best place to ask would be here....
 
They do it in new zealand, by heating with pyridine HCl to demethylate codeine to morphine, called 'homebake'

Yields are low, somewhere around 30%, if you know what you are doing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/833817 this looks more promising. O-demethylation using a thiolate reagent, IIRC in combination with potassium tert-butoxide
Rather than using propanethiolate (thiolates are to thiols/mercaptans what alkoxides are to alcohols),

http://sci-hub.tw/10.1021/jm00211a037
80% yields crude, once decolorized and cleaned up, 55%

Another thought, if you could manage it, would be catalytic hydrogenation to give dihydrocodeine, its somewhat more amenable to dealkylation than is codeine, a 33% solution of anhydrous HBr in glacial acetic acid, 95-100 'C, 2 hours gives a very (near quantitative) yield of 6-monoacetyldihydromorphine with a lower proportion of dihydroheroin as byproduct.

Workup is by adding methanol, repeatedly, to form the methyl ester of the acetic acid (2ml GAA per gram used as solvent+2ml/g DHC base of the 33% HBr in GAA), the residual HBr aids in a Fischer esterification between the added methanol and acetic acid, forming a volatile ester (methyl acetate) which can be distilled off.

Oh, and BTW you might want to try with sodium dodecanethiolate rather than propanethiolate, low molecular weight thiols of around that size are gaseous or volatile liquids, with n-propanethiol being a liquid, these sulfur analogs of alcohols are notorious for the vile stench they pack, dodecanethiol is still a liquid, but much less volatile and as such, far less offensive.

And you'll need a good vacuum pump to strip the DMF, it has a pretty high boiling point.
 
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Thanks for your reply Limpet,

Trouble is i lost you at yeilds :)
You obviously have a background in OC, can you recommend some reading so that would help me understand half of what you are saying?

Thanks
Camp
 
Hang on, lest just say for example someone had 1g of codiene phosphate and threw in a bottle with the the correct stoichiometric amount of of pyridie HCI, heat and shake it.. He would get around %30 percent(300mg) of pure morphine back to do what he liked with? IE paint a picture?
 
If you were good at it, thats the upper range, never used the pyridine route personally, and its the freebase which is used.

The yields based on codeine are fairly widely known to be crap. Was going to test the thiolate route but didn't get the chance, courtesy of a bunch of bumbling idiots screwing things up. But either that or the use of BBr3 would be I'd how I'd go about it (although given you've said you've no background in chemistry, definitely avoid the BBr3 route, its highly toxic)

The mercaptides would be produced via addition of the appropriate alkali metal (I.e sodium) under an inert atmosphere (vessel purged with argon, easily had in disposable cylinders, likewise the regulators from welding stores)

As for the Na, if you can't buy it, there's a rather nifty non-electrolytic method, using the much more easily had magnesium powder, essentially a thermite type reaction between sodium hydroxide and magnesium dust, in a suitably heat-resistant container, it produces a slag of magnesium oxide intermixed with metallic sodium, and it turns out that 1,4-dioxane, a cyclic di-ether solvent, easily produced using concentrated sulfuric acid (often used for unblocking bogs and other nasty holes in the ground of that nature) to dehydrate ethylene glycol (antifreeze, you want the concentrate, not ready-mixed, which is full of water) via distillation.

Be aware that ethers form peroxides in storage, but there is plenty of literature online as to how to get rid of them (they are extremely shock-sensitive explosives), as for testing for them so as to know if they need treating (ethers in general), soak paper in a solution of starch, such as from boiled down potato liquor and then once dried, also in a solution of potassium or sodium iodide, and cut into test strips. Peroxide presence being indicated by a colour change, to a purplish-black colour

The deeper the colour, the greater the contamination, and any discoloration means it should be treated.

(the slag from the thermite rxn is ground, and then refluxed under dioxane, which needs to be dry, given the reactivity of sodium, although, given you are going to need an inert atmosphere anyway for the thiolate demethylation you'll already have the argon tank handy, a portion of the sodium/magnesium oxide slag could be used for dessication of the dioxane, and under the dioxane, the Na will melt out.)

Edit-should mention I have no formal background in O-chem, trained myself, I'm on the autistic spectrum, comes with weird and oddball interests and along with botany and mycology, toxicology, molecular biology, that was kinda what got drawn out of the pot at birth.

Somewhere along the line something just decided that the world either needed one more guy who can't help but spend way too much of his income on a lab, or it needed another thorn in it's side, depending on who you'd ask=D

Edit 2-for the metallothermic production of Na, you'll want to weight down the lid of the crucible or other vessel used, to prevent the metal vaporizing away in the heat of the reaction.
 
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Limpet sounds like he knows what he is doing.

Campingtion, if you were to fuck that up you could kill yourself. Do not try at home. Reading Limpet's post, you may need a lab anyways.
 
If you don't know anything about organic chemistry your yields are going to be very poor at best or completely bunk at worst. I'd listen to freesolo, just allow your liver to do the work for you. We don't allow synthesis discussion here
 
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