Spirtualseeker
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- Aug 9, 2017
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I have chacruna and caapi powder, what can I do to make these two ingredients join to make an easy brew for visions
Chacruna powder and Caapi powder
- Thread starter Spirtualseeker
- Start date
Hey there I just registered so I could help you out. During this past week I have been working on brewing my own medicine for personal use. I have tried a few methods, and I believe everything has "worked" - I just haven't gotten to a place where I can take a substantial dose to get to the higher level of visions.
Let me see if I can condense down ALL of my reading/information to help things go smoothly for you (that is, if you're still looking for advice).
Here is what I would do:
- I would brew up only enough for a few "uses", so that you have some raw materials left over in the case that something doesn't work out, and if it does go right, you'll have some extra brew on hand to use later. Not sure how much raw materials you have in total, but I would say if you have 400 grams of caapi and 400 grams of chacruna, plan to use 200 grams of each.
- A normal dosage of yellow/red/white caapi is a minimum 50 grams, and for some people up to ~100 grams. This is all dependent on the strength of the vine (how much active alkaloids are in it), how well the actives were absorbed while cooking, and how your body responds. Chacruna is about the same.
- You're going to brew the chacruna and caapi separately, meaning not all in one pot. This will help you be scientific in recognizing what is your personal proper dosage. It's best to dose up with the caapi first and see how that sits/feels, and then add the chacruna. You can always add more, but you cannot take less...
- Do the brewing in a ceramic crockpot. It is not exactly Amazon jungle-esque, but it will save lots of work and time in the process. This helped extract way more stuff from my materials than just boiling on a stove.
Here's how:
+ Put your caapi powder in a doubled lined pantyhose, you can buy them at most local stores. Tie the one open end.
+ Place your double lined sack of caapi powder in the crockpot
+ Cover the pantyhose filled with powder with just enough distilled water to cover it. About 1 Liter should do it
+ Place some small rocks or gemstones on the pantyhose, this will keep it submerged without it floating up
+ Add ~25 ML (1 teaspoon) of white vinegar, or apple cider vinegar, to the water
+ Let cook for 8 hours, covered with the lid
+ After 8 hours, take out pantyhose w/powder and drain out (brown) liquid into a glass gallon jug. Save the water.
+ Take the pantyhose w/powder and put into the freezer overnight. This freezing technique breaks down the plant matter more for better absorption
+ In the morning or the next day, repeat the steps above, using the same pantyhose w/powder, with fresh water and fresh splash of vinegar
Do this process a total of 3 times, totaling 24 hours of cooking the plant matter. Keep adding the water you pour off into the same glass jug from the first time.
Side note: watch the crock pot so that it never achieves boiling. What you want is temperatures just under boiling, no bubbles coming to the surface of the water. Some crock pots can get too hot I hear.
At the end, you should have ~1 gallon of brown liquid that may also be golden in certain light. This is your caapi brew.
Next steps:
+ Repeat this exact process with the chacruna powder, and though you could reduce the brewing time, doing it for a total of 3 x 8 hours would be sufficient (I haven't reduced the brewing time with chacruna myself, but I heard that you can)
Next steps:
+ Now you have ~2 gallons of liquid, 1 gallon of caapi brew, 1 gallon of chacruna
+ You now are going to take these gallons and reduce them to a much smaller volume on the stove.
+ Use STAINLESS STEEL POTS, no teflon, no aluminum
+ Pour all of your caapi brew into one pot, pour all of your chacruna in another (or use the same pot, finishing one, then finishing another)
+ Now you are going to turn up the heat so again, it gets hot but does not achieve boiling
+ Temperature should be hot enough so that it starts to STEAM, not bubble, though a little bubbling isn't bad
+ What you're doing here is raising the temperature to a point so that the liquid (water and vinegar) can evaporate
+ You want to evaporate the liquid down A LOT
+ This will take about 6-8 hours in my experience
+ One way to speed it up is to pour the brew into several pots and reduce all at once. More surface area exposed to open air will speed things up significantly
+ Stir the pots as much as your schedule permits, definitely don't leave it unattended both for spiritual purposes and practical purposes
+ When the brew is reducing down lower and lower, you will adjust the heat so that it stays just under boiling, and stir more often, like you're stirring scrambled eggs in a pan
+ When it gets down REALLY low, where there is a half inch or less of water in the pan you will want to stay with it from now on, do not leave the stove, trust me or it will burn
+ You're going to reduce it down until it looks like THICK VISCOS COFFEE. One step further is a SYRUP, sticky and still light colored. One step further and it is BURNED, when it BURNS and has a smell like blackened marshmallows over the fire, it's gone too far. It's not destroyed but it does reduce the potency of the medicine, meaning you've lost some of your yield
So let's say you started this with 200 grams of caapi and 200 grams of chacruna. The best way to boil it down would be to 200 ML of caapi and 200 ML of chacruna. That would mean 1 gram = 1 ML. Very easy way to dose things out and know how much you're getting of what.
Advantages to this method:
+ For as many instructions I put in here, it's much easier and way less hassle-free until the last part, the reduction part, which is unavoidable
+ It uses less overall water, which means less reduction time and that is very helpful
+ It can be broken up over days with minimum maintenance, until the reduction step
+ Most of the processing can be done very low-key, so if you have roommates this will mostly not affect their live's schedule
+ Extracts a maximum amount of alkaloids out of the material, which is what you want
+ You only need the stovetop for the reduction phase, so you can do it on one day when no one is home
Disadvantages:
- Spread out over multiple days, other methods may work better for some
- The brew is left unattended in the crock pot, some may not like that for spiritual reasons
- My original crock pot method smelled a lot in the house, but thats because I used way too much vinegar (stick with the amount above and it should be no problem)
-
Storing the brew:
+ Your reduced caapi/chacruna can be stored in the fridge for several weeks without an issue, keep in mind it is a plant matter so it susceptible to mold like anything else in your fridge
+ In the freezer it can be kept indefinitely, thawed out and brought back up to below boiling temperature before serving
+ Out in the open, just be weary, it can ferment as there is acid in there (vinegar), prob much shorter shelf-life
Dosing:
+ Since there is hardly any way to know the potency of your plants, effectiveness of the extraction, and how your body might respond, it is best to start slowly and work your way up
+ Caapi is hard to overdo, it is the "force" behind the plant and has it's own psychoactive principals. You may want to try sitting with JUST the caapi one night, drink 50 grams/50 ML worth and see how it goes. If it hits you, you should feel sensations in the body, a bit off balance, sensitive to light, sensitive to sound, a bit of alertness and general well being may start to rise
+ If you get this with the caapi dosage, then next time you try it, add the chacruna, the chacruna has the DMT in it
+ Start wth 50 grams caapi 50 grams of chacruna, see how that sits. If by 90 minutes (I know its hard to wait, but do wait), you don't feel anything, then take another 50 grams caapi, 50 grams chacruna. That should definitely work if you were feeling light effects before
Okay that is all my search and discovery wrapped into one post here! Blessings and hope it finds you or another in the most special of ways.
Let me see if I can condense down ALL of my reading/information to help things go smoothly for you (that is, if you're still looking for advice).
Here is what I would do:
- I would brew up only enough for a few "uses", so that you have some raw materials left over in the case that something doesn't work out, and if it does go right, you'll have some extra brew on hand to use later. Not sure how much raw materials you have in total, but I would say if you have 400 grams of caapi and 400 grams of chacruna, plan to use 200 grams of each.
- A normal dosage of yellow/red/white caapi is a minimum 50 grams, and for some people up to ~100 grams. This is all dependent on the strength of the vine (how much active alkaloids are in it), how well the actives were absorbed while cooking, and how your body responds. Chacruna is about the same.
- You're going to brew the chacruna and caapi separately, meaning not all in one pot. This will help you be scientific in recognizing what is your personal proper dosage. It's best to dose up with the caapi first and see how that sits/feels, and then add the chacruna. You can always add more, but you cannot take less...
- Do the brewing in a ceramic crockpot. It is not exactly Amazon jungle-esque, but it will save lots of work and time in the process. This helped extract way more stuff from my materials than just boiling on a stove.
Here's how:
+ Put your caapi powder in a doubled lined pantyhose, you can buy them at most local stores. Tie the one open end.
+ Place your double lined sack of caapi powder in the crockpot
+ Cover the pantyhose filled with powder with just enough distilled water to cover it. About 1 Liter should do it
+ Place some small rocks or gemstones on the pantyhose, this will keep it submerged without it floating up
+ Add ~25 ML (1 teaspoon) of white vinegar, or apple cider vinegar, to the water
+ Let cook for 8 hours, covered with the lid
+ After 8 hours, take out pantyhose w/powder and drain out (brown) liquid into a glass gallon jug. Save the water.
+ Take the pantyhose w/powder and put into the freezer overnight. This freezing technique breaks down the plant matter more for better absorption
+ In the morning or the next day, repeat the steps above, using the same pantyhose w/powder, with fresh water and fresh splash of vinegar
Do this process a total of 3 times, totaling 24 hours of cooking the plant matter. Keep adding the water you pour off into the same glass jug from the first time.
Side note: watch the crock pot so that it never achieves boiling. What you want is temperatures just under boiling, no bubbles coming to the surface of the water. Some crock pots can get too hot I hear.
At the end, you should have ~1 gallon of brown liquid that may also be golden in certain light. This is your caapi brew.
Next steps:
+ Repeat this exact process with the chacruna powder, and though you could reduce the brewing time, doing it for a total of 3 x 8 hours would be sufficient (I haven't reduced the brewing time with chacruna myself, but I heard that you can)
Next steps:
+ Now you have ~2 gallons of liquid, 1 gallon of caapi brew, 1 gallon of chacruna
+ You now are going to take these gallons and reduce them to a much smaller volume on the stove.
+ Use STAINLESS STEEL POTS, no teflon, no aluminum
+ Pour all of your caapi brew into one pot, pour all of your chacruna in another (or use the same pot, finishing one, then finishing another)
+ Now you are going to turn up the heat so again, it gets hot but does not achieve boiling
+ Temperature should be hot enough so that it starts to STEAM, not bubble, though a little bubbling isn't bad
+ What you're doing here is raising the temperature to a point so that the liquid (water and vinegar) can evaporate
+ You want to evaporate the liquid down A LOT
+ This will take about 6-8 hours in my experience
+ One way to speed it up is to pour the brew into several pots and reduce all at once. More surface area exposed to open air will speed things up significantly
+ Stir the pots as much as your schedule permits, definitely don't leave it unattended both for spiritual purposes and practical purposes
+ When the brew is reducing down lower and lower, you will adjust the heat so that it stays just under boiling, and stir more often, like you're stirring scrambled eggs in a pan
+ When it gets down REALLY low, where there is a half inch or less of water in the pan you will want to stay with it from now on, do not leave the stove, trust me or it will burn
+ You're going to reduce it down until it looks like THICK VISCOS COFFEE. One step further is a SYRUP, sticky and still light colored. One step further and it is BURNED, when it BURNS and has a smell like blackened marshmallows over the fire, it's gone too far. It's not destroyed but it does reduce the potency of the medicine, meaning you've lost some of your yield
So let's say you started this with 200 grams of caapi and 200 grams of chacruna. The best way to boil it down would be to 200 ML of caapi and 200 ML of chacruna. That would mean 1 gram = 1 ML. Very easy way to dose things out and know how much you're getting of what.
Advantages to this method:
+ For as many instructions I put in here, it's much easier and way less hassle-free until the last part, the reduction part, which is unavoidable
+ It uses less overall water, which means less reduction time and that is very helpful
+ It can be broken up over days with minimum maintenance, until the reduction step
+ Most of the processing can be done very low-key, so if you have roommates this will mostly not affect their live's schedule
+ Extracts a maximum amount of alkaloids out of the material, which is what you want
+ You only need the stovetop for the reduction phase, so you can do it on one day when no one is home
Disadvantages:
- Spread out over multiple days, other methods may work better for some
- The brew is left unattended in the crock pot, some may not like that for spiritual reasons
- My original crock pot method smelled a lot in the house, but thats because I used way too much vinegar (stick with the amount above and it should be no problem)
-
Storing the brew:
+ Your reduced caapi/chacruna can be stored in the fridge for several weeks without an issue, keep in mind it is a plant matter so it susceptible to mold like anything else in your fridge
+ In the freezer it can be kept indefinitely, thawed out and brought back up to below boiling temperature before serving
+ Out in the open, just be weary, it can ferment as there is acid in there (vinegar), prob much shorter shelf-life
Dosing:
+ Since there is hardly any way to know the potency of your plants, effectiveness of the extraction, and how your body might respond, it is best to start slowly and work your way up
+ Caapi is hard to overdo, it is the "force" behind the plant and has it's own psychoactive principals. You may want to try sitting with JUST the caapi one night, drink 50 grams/50 ML worth and see how it goes. If it hits you, you should feel sensations in the body, a bit off balance, sensitive to light, sensitive to sound, a bit of alertness and general well being may start to rise
+ If you get this with the caapi dosage, then next time you try it, add the chacruna, the chacruna has the DMT in it
+ Start wth 50 grams caapi 50 grams of chacruna, see how that sits. If by 90 minutes (I know its hard to wait, but do wait), you don't feel anything, then take another 50 grams caapi, 50 grams chacruna. That should definitely work if you were feeling light effects before
Okay that is all my search and discovery wrapped into one post here! Blessings and hope it finds you or another in the most special of ways.
Last edited:
LlewellynDrury
Bluelighter
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You are not welcome here dude. Stop spamming this site with advertising!!!!
paisleygeisha
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2017
- Messages
- 6
Hey Ayaman123!
This is SOOOO helpful! Cooking separately is definitely the way to go, it sounds like. I've heard that the caapi takes a lot more of a strong boil to get it to yield it's MOAI whereas the leaves must be treated delicately or they lose their potency, hence the reason for low heat in the brews. Seems like it might be best to cook each at a separate temperture
Have you had a chance to take a full dose of the medicine you made with your above recipe yet?
I didn't use vinegar (as I had not read your recipe yet) but for me the caapi cooking was stinky (just bending over to stir left a smell in my hair and clothes that followed me around) and I would never do it indoors whereas the leaves just smell like you are cooking autumn leaves and are okay in the house.
I will *definitely* use powders as you suggest next time.
Thanks again!
This is SOOOO helpful! Cooking separately is definitely the way to go, it sounds like. I've heard that the caapi takes a lot more of a strong boil to get it to yield it's MOAI whereas the leaves must be treated delicately or they lose their potency, hence the reason for low heat in the brews. Seems like it might be best to cook each at a separate temperture
Have you had a chance to take a full dose of the medicine you made with your above recipe yet?
I didn't use vinegar (as I had not read your recipe yet) but for me the caapi cooking was stinky (just bending over to stir left a smell in my hair and clothes that followed me around) and I would never do it indoors whereas the leaves just smell like you are cooking autumn leaves and are okay in the house.
I will *definitely* use powders as you suggest next time.
Thanks again!
Hey there buddy, yes you can try to cook things at lower temperatures and for different times. Historically, both plants are cooked in the same pot with the same water! What this means is that the alkaloids or DMT can survive higher temperatures, its more so to that more of the tannins will be pulled out of the plants (I think) which are what are hard on the digestive tract and can induce more purging.
I haven't used actual leaves, I used just powders from both. You could also blend or grind your leaves/vine to make it as fine as possible, more surface area means less boiling time and better extraction.
I didn't reduce my brews fully as the reduction time wasn't something I had time for. My brews are more like liquids than thick gulps like you get in a ceremony. I sipped on both the caapi liquid and chacruna liquid one night and had an experience that was just below threshold, light tracers around my guitar strings that were breaking away into the matrix and closed eyed visuals.
I am certain that if I reduced the brew further and took a full dose, it would inherently work. I just didn't have the capacity to take a full dose on those occasions.
paisleygeisha
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2017
- Messages
- 6
Hi-
My friend who studied in Peru told me that the reason they cook both together at a high heat is that they have such an abundance of chacruna leaves that they can afford to use TONS of them, compensating for the fact that a lot of the potency is lost in the chacruna at high heat whereas the vine takes a more aggressive temperature to yield up the whatever it is/the maoi. The videos I have seen online looks like a pretty aggressive boil. TONS of material and they make it in a day and half or so- fast. (Why wouldn't you want to do it fast even if you waste materials under those abundant circumstances; makes sense.)
The powders make immense sense. So does cooking separately. I would absolutely go that way in the future.
Interesting to hear the purgative effects might be exacerbated by the high temp on the vine.
I sort of tried to combine the methods, realizing there was a lot i did't know *after i had already started*. Started off with classic jungle method of the two combined; vine crushed with hammer, whole leaves (very dry)- at a careful *low* bubble boil. Two cooks/two broths. Retained some leaves uncooked. Cooked the extra leaves separately at an even lower temp (2x). Added to slowly reducing broth. Painstakingly picked out the vine from the combined cooked batch. Recooked the vine at high temp. Added to slowly reducing broth.
So I had LOTS of batches of broth to reduce. My broth needs further reduction, so I can't report on it yet.
Friends report many failed batches despite their best efforts so I have a feeling this is trickier than it appears, but eager to try your method!
Ayaman, Ever considered using the reduced vine in liquid form? Will of course not mention source, but have heard of a reputable source for that. Sure seems like an immensely easier way to go with the vine, plus the cooking vine is the stinky part.
My friend who studied in Peru told me that the reason they cook both together at a high heat is that they have such an abundance of chacruna leaves that they can afford to use TONS of them, compensating for the fact that a lot of the potency is lost in the chacruna at high heat whereas the vine takes a more aggressive temperature to yield up the whatever it is/the maoi. The videos I have seen online looks like a pretty aggressive boil. TONS of material and they make it in a day and half or so- fast. (Why wouldn't you want to do it fast even if you waste materials under those abundant circumstances; makes sense.)
The powders make immense sense. So does cooking separately. I would absolutely go that way in the future.
Interesting to hear the purgative effects might be exacerbated by the high temp on the vine.
I sort of tried to combine the methods, realizing there was a lot i did't know *after i had already started*. Started off with classic jungle method of the two combined; vine crushed with hammer, whole leaves (very dry)- at a careful *low* bubble boil. Two cooks/two broths. Retained some leaves uncooked. Cooked the extra leaves separately at an even lower temp (2x). Added to slowly reducing broth. Painstakingly picked out the vine from the combined cooked batch. Recooked the vine at high temp. Added to slowly reducing broth.
So I had LOTS of batches of broth to reduce. My broth needs further reduction, so I can't report on it yet.
Friends report many failed batches despite their best efforts so I have a feeling this is trickier than it appears, but eager to try your method!
Ayaman, Ever considered using the reduced vine in liquid form? Will of course not mention source, but have heard of a reputable source for that. Sure seems like an immensely easier way to go with the vine, plus the cooking vine is the stinky part.
Hey brother, yes to all of that. They have tons of resources in the Amazon, so whole chunks/pieces don't matter that much. A powder will extract much more efficiently, even though not as authentic.
I'd say cooking at a lower temperature makes sense. My crockpot never ever even gets close to boiling, not even bubbles forming. It just warms the water to hot enough to burn you if you leave it in there for more than a second or two. With that, I think the leaves and vine would survive just fine (hopefully).
Having lots of extra brew to reduce is the biggest hurdle in the process. You can reduce that step by using as little water as possible during your extractions. Otherwise it could take 8-10 hours just to reduce the brew.
And to answer your last question - yes, actually after doing this whole method, I actually went and bought some extracts/creams of both the vine and the leaf. I've used it twice and it worked out quite well. <snip>
Blessings.
Last edited by a moderator:
Okay sorry, did not know. Will keep that in mind. Blessings.
Welcome to Bluelight/PD by the way, nice to see new people who make quality posts.paisleygeisha
Greenlighter
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- Oct 5, 2017
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Brew with dried leaves & crushed, dried vine using one kilo of each
Thanks again, Ayaman 123- I thought a massive (horrendous and ordeal-like- yo it was a big job, no offense to the plant spirits) reducing of the brew what part of what was required. LOTS of liquid, sloooowly reduced. You have really providing some shortcuts. Worn out for now, but looking forward to trying your much simpler method and using powders/reductions. When this concoction is used, will report back about the success of the brew.
(Keeping the conversation out of PM in order to help others.)
Ended up like this: BREW WITH DRIED LEAVES & CRUSHED, DRIED VINE USING ONE KILO OF EACH
Used enough water to physically cover and very very very gently boil (you can barely see bubbles pushing their way up thru the materials) 1 kilo of dry leaves and 1 kilo of dry, crushed vine (twice) in a giant enamel pot over an outdoor gas stove, then moved each batch of resulting broth to the crockpot to reduce. It took almost a week to cook and reduce all the batches of broth we made, using our giant crockpot, due to some extra water used and one extra broth made which will be explained.
We also used something in the bottom of the boiling pot (think vegetable steamer) to keep the materials further from the flames, so that added a couple of inches of extra water besides what was needed to cover the plant materials. Did that because of seeing aggressively-boiling pots of jungle aya in which "sticks" of uncrushed vine were put in the bottom of the pot before layering in the leaves and the crushed vine, presumably to protect the materials from the harsh flame under the pot.
(Plus as I said, I reboiled the vine bits HARD one last time- separately- because of having been warned that the vine didn't yield up the maoi without considerable boiling force. Didn't want to risk neglecting that and potentially ruining the whole batch. Seemed like it couldn't hurt. Started this project before I read your "all-crockpot method".)
From 1 kilo each of dried leaves and vine, final yeild is 2 1/2 cups that is almost the consistency of hershey's chocolate syrup but not quite that thick. Smells right looks right. Didn't cool too fast so avoided caramelization.)
With Ayaman123's math and all the stars in alignment, this batch would be 10-20 doses at 1/8th cup to 1/4th cup each: "A normal dosage of yellow/red/white caapi is a minimum 50 grams, and for some people up to ~100 grams. This is all dependent on the strength of the vine (how much active alkaloids are in it), how well the actives were absorbed while cooking, and how your body responds. Chacruna is about the same."
Thanks again, Ayaman 123- I thought a massive (horrendous and ordeal-like- yo it was a big job, no offense to the plant spirits) reducing of the brew what part of what was required. LOTS of liquid, sloooowly reduced. You have really providing some shortcuts. Worn out for now, but looking forward to trying your much simpler method and using powders/reductions. When this concoction is used, will report back about the success of the brew.
(Keeping the conversation out of PM in order to help others.)
Ended up like this: BREW WITH DRIED LEAVES & CRUSHED, DRIED VINE USING ONE KILO OF EACH
Used enough water to physically cover and very very very gently boil (you can barely see bubbles pushing their way up thru the materials) 1 kilo of dry leaves and 1 kilo of dry, crushed vine (twice) in a giant enamel pot over an outdoor gas stove, then moved each batch of resulting broth to the crockpot to reduce. It took almost a week to cook and reduce all the batches of broth we made, using our giant crockpot, due to some extra water used and one extra broth made which will be explained.
We also used something in the bottom of the boiling pot (think vegetable steamer) to keep the materials further from the flames, so that added a couple of inches of extra water besides what was needed to cover the plant materials. Did that because of seeing aggressively-boiling pots of jungle aya in which "sticks" of uncrushed vine were put in the bottom of the pot before layering in the leaves and the crushed vine, presumably to protect the materials from the harsh flame under the pot.
(Plus as I said, I reboiled the vine bits HARD one last time- separately- because of having been warned that the vine didn't yield up the maoi without considerable boiling force. Didn't want to risk neglecting that and potentially ruining the whole batch. Seemed like it couldn't hurt. Started this project before I read your "all-crockpot method".)
From 1 kilo each of dried leaves and vine, final yeild is 2 1/2 cups that is almost the consistency of hershey's chocolate syrup but not quite that thick. Smells right looks right. Didn't cool too fast so avoided caramelization.)
With Ayaman123's math and all the stars in alignment, this batch would be 10-20 doses at 1/8th cup to 1/4th cup each: "A normal dosage of yellow/red/white caapi is a minimum 50 grams, and for some people up to ~100 grams. This is all dependent on the strength of the vine (how much active alkaloids are in it), how well the actives were absorbed while cooking, and how your body responds. Chacruna is about the same."
Scarlet100
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- Jun 24, 2020
- Messages
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Great post and written with great care.