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Celibacy

I think ideally we shouldn't ever have to ejaculate. Because if pleasure is a means to knowing the divine, then we are conditioned to understand the divine only through others. Being forced to develop this kind of dependency is arguably the worst aspect of modernity.

I was happy until the day sexuality became a factor in my life.. and the lives of friends.. it just tends to make things so much more damn complicated haha. Bit exaggerated but you get the picture. Without the bait of pleasure what would we accomplish though? It's the carrot on a stick that drives our entire species (and all species). If there was no pleasure in sex at all would we do it? For other animals it's quite a risky adventure, sometimes even resulting in mandatory death for the male! As a guy, and I'm sure other males here have had the same experience, that post-orgasm sometimes you wonder just what the heck all the fuss was about.. though I imagine the experience when you're in love is framed slightly differently. At least until you've been married for awhile haha =D

I'm also inclined to agree with SS in that you don't need to know names for these things or follow rituals exactly as they are taught in cults. As long as you can make the connections in your head, it doesn't matter what you call it and how you do it really.

This was kind of what I was getting at earlier. It's like dancing and play.. children do it the way they do it, they weren't taught and it doesn't matter exactly how they do it.. what matters is they do it, and it triggers certain biophysical responses. You can feel great by dancing like a total monkey to psytrance, or you can do serious calculated movements like in tai chi.. either way, get the body moving.
 
Drugs can also be one of the worst things if you want to keep your celibacy. One time I met up with an old boyfriend in a Kratom induced state and that's all it took as it brings out the love feelings. Although it wasn't like a low form of sexual energy loss it was still depleting.
 
Drugs can also be one of the worst things if you want to keep your celibacy.

I've found alcohol to be particularly dangerous, though more in the dream state than waking state.. I'm pretty good at controlling myself in the waking state. During alcohol sleep I'm not as in control, and if an arousing dream hits me then there's less chance of not getting carried away and having a wet dream.. alcohol definitely lowers your executive mental function ability! On that note I can appreciate why people get violent and commit all kinds of stupid acts whilst under the influence of alcohol..
 
Alcohol lowers your consciousness. It actually lowers the vibration of the body, but it sucks us into the material world and lets us focus on the present in a way we can enjoy and find funny. But any kind of drug can be risky as it blurs out reality and makes you forget about your goals.

And combining something that opens the heart-center with someone you have feelings for is a bad idea because of the love/unity vibes it can produce and make you think only of that. In other words, don't take MDMA and meet up with a possible boyfriend/girlfriend.
 
Work well at what, "raising your consciousness"? Look, if people want to believe that then all the power to them.. if they're interested in it, that's great. They're doing something. I'm not interested in it, because it's bullshit in terms of getting answers and only wastes precious time. Things may happen I don't doubt that, but the label and concept (raising consciousness etc) attributed to it is absolute nonsense.

I hear that your opinion is that it's bullshit. There's no point in really trying to refute an opinion, because all it is, is one point of view. But I don't buy that you're so laissez-faire about it, because you keep attacking me and arguing against every post I make about tantra. If it's all so "to each their own", then ease off, will you?

And don't twist what I said. I did not say one is subjected to harmful entity contact if they have sex. I said the sexual process is entity motivated; that's all I said, not that it was negative. I'm not against sex nor is my position coming from that viewpoint, but conversely I'm not going to say sex is divine or sacred, or dress it up in some way that makes it more than it is.

I don't really see a distinction between saying that entity contact happens during sex, or that sex is entity motivated. Both are attributing sex to some kind of extracorporeal control or contact, as a default, which is simply not true. Your understanding of entities is new age, and comes from a new ager. Maybe if you weren't so dismissive of everything pre-modern you would have more insight into entities and spirit contact than you already have, but you seem to think you've reinvented the wheel by listening to a new ager talk about sex and entities. I frankly don't care what your beliefs are but I take issue with the misinformation you spread on the subject as you attack other systems (like tantra) while admitting you know next to nothing about it. You shouldn't be telling people that their sex lives are influenced by entities because it's fear mongering. If you had entity contact because of sexual practices then maybe you should take responsibility for your situation and not assume that everyone on planet earth has this issue? Cleanse, purify, protect yourself and your space. Fact is, if you have entities around you they're not going to stop just because you practice celibacy. That kind of head-in-the-sand approach is new age -- you can't just imagine your way out of it by telling yourself you're in control. They're intelligent and don't really give a fuck what you think, or what your sexual practices are.

If you don't view sex as being divine or sacred, then that's your business. To go and dismiss a wealth of historical practices which combined sex with the sacred, is just hubris of the highest order. You're wrong in claiming there is no truth to thousands of years of human experience on this subject, which is well recorded, documented, and reproducible for anyone who bothers. Or, to put it another way, you can't speak to the experiences of literally millions of practitioners throughout time and say that they are all just fooling themselves and have nothing to contribute to the greater diaspora of human knowledge. That you haven't experienced tantra or adequately researched it is not a valid argument against it. Likewise, that you see any sexual practice but celibacy as useless lust or animal impulse is also not an adequate argument against it. No, I'm not saying that we should buy into something just because it's "ancient", but that it's typical of modernism to dismiss all that came before because one believes what's happening now is superior. Take ownership of what works for you and stop projecting fear and hate.

I thought this thread was about discussing sexual practices, not the gospel according to SS. I respect the choice to be celibate, I'm interjecting with my experience of celibacy plus the experience that celibacy is not necessary for spiritual cultivation. Just deal with it.

Anyway don't worry about it, I'm not coming back to this thread. I've said my piece.
 
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If you can't handle criticism of your beliefs then don't bring them up Foreigner. I stated my position, if you don't like it that's alright but don't start whining about it. I don't mind you referring to my position as new age, because it isn't. The man who's philosophy I place the most trust in was around long before the new age took off and has dealt with entities in the lives of other people directly, as in actually exorcising people. A clearly enlightened man, verified by his life's work and the many who came to him (including those seeking help for possession).. I find nothing of that calibre on offer from anyone of the Eastern systems. If I'm going to indulge in something I require some demonstrable evidence it is worth investing my time in. Tantra says a lot but I don't see much demonstrable proof beyond hearsay and people claiming to have found some level of bliss/pleasure.

Likewise, that you see any sexual practice but celibacy as useless lust or animal impulse is also not an adequate argument against it

That's not what I said at all. This is the second time you've attributed something to me which I haven't actually said. Sex has an obvious purpose, procreation. The pleasure is natures bait, not gods divine gift. The language and concepts used to promote sex to godly status is reminiscent of substance abusers talking about their vice of choice. It also reaks of human self-importance.

We love to "own" sex, because heaven forbid the possibility that we're not actually in control of our most powerful impulse. But did you ever stop to consider the possibility that actually it may simply be a tool in the toolkit of something else's plan? The insane sexual frequency of human beings in comparison to other animals doesn't intrigue your mind at all?
 
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What about bonobos? That's a human relative with a high frequency of sex (moreso than humans even). Also humans are uncommon in that women are able to conceive children most of the time, unlike most mammals who have much narrower windows of fertility. So it makes biological sense that we would be driven to have sex more often.

I agree it can be an unhealthy fixation for some people, but my girl and I have sex almost every time we see each other, which is around 4 of every 7 days (except now because she's out of town for 2 months, so hey, I'm going to have a 2 month period of celibacy, perhaps it will be interesting). And I don't see anything negative about that. It's like, okay, bedtime/morning time, let's have sex. Then the rest of my day I spend working towards things. It's a beautiful part of my life. Regardless of the animal nature of it, as humans we're able to experience it on other levels. For us it's something that's an expression of love and affection and it produces bonding. It crosses the boundaries of ego and self. I don't think I'm going to become enlightened (whatever that means) from it, but I just think of it as part of the human experience... it's something beautiful we're able to experience and appreciate on a higher level than most (or maybe even all) animals. Life is full of positives and negative, good times and bad, and it's one of the good things (not sex specifically but sex with someone you love). I consider it a gift and I have no interest in spurning that gift. :)
 
What about bonobos? That's a human relative with a high frequency of sex (moreso than humans even). Also humans are uncommon in that women are able to conceive children most of the time, unlike most mammals who have much narrower windows of fertility. So it makes biological sense that we would be driven to have sex more often.

I don't think the first part contradicts anything.. I mean we're genetically similar, but again the question is why is there an incredibly high sexual frequency for us (human and genetic relatives)? I don't find suggested hypothesis's from evolutionary science to be sufficient enough in answering that question, or about the sexual process across all biology either.

The second part, about conception: Isn't what you've written slightly contradictory though? If the window of conception is large for our species then surely sexual frequency should actually be lower.. sex is an incredibly energy intensive activity. Forget modern life, but back in more primitive times such a high level of frequency would be a waste of valuable energy and place the organism in greater danger due to preoccupation. I'm not sold on the idea that all nature cares about is quantity of sex and procreation rates, I believe there's more to it than that.

I agree it can be an unhealthy fixation for some people, but my girl and I have sex almost every time we see each other, which is around 4 of every 7 days (except now because she's out of town for 2 months, so hey, I'm going to have a 2 month period of celibacy, perhaps it will be interesting). And I don't see anything negative about that. It's like, okay, bedtime/morning time, let's have sex. Then the rest of my day I spend working towards things. It's a beautiful part of my life. Regardless of the animal nature of it, as humans we're able to experience it on other levels. For us it's something that's an expression of love and affection and it produces bonding. It crosses the boundaries of ego and self. I don't think I'm going to become enlightened (whatever that means) from it, but I just think of it as part of the human experience... it's something beautiful we're able to experience and appreciate on a higher level than most (or maybe even all) animals. Life is full of positives and negative, good times and bad, and it's one of the good things (not sex specifically but sex with someone you love). I consider it a gift and I have no interest in spurning that gift. :)

Again I don't disagree with anything you've written there Xorkoth. I'm fully in agreement with the human side of sex between a loving couple. It's when it starts becoming attached to concepts of divinity, sacredness and so forth that I begin to find disagreement. It's beautiful thing and you can have beautiful experiences, and I'm all for people enjoying each other within a loving relationship if it means they're happy and ultimately liable to offer a happy, secure and positive environment for their children.
 
Everyone likes to slam New Age like they're necessarily above it. But "New Age" is not one specific thing and not everything that is put under that label is anything like what people typically associate with New Age.

I guess the beginnings of this movement was in the 60s with the emergence of the psychedelic movement and more individual forms of spirituality. It was a kind of blend of Theosophy, Eastern mysteries, Esoteric Christianity, Spiritualism and Pagan beliefs. Many of the teachings of the most gifted teachers of the last century, like Omraam Aivanhov, was also incorporated in it over time so it's not that easily discarded.

These days it mostly applies to modern forms of spirituality but it's also wrong to see it as if there could be nothing of possible value going on in our times. It's always what's going on in the present that matters the most. But as most don't become a prophet in their own time what future generations will remember this period for most of us probably won't have any time for. Would we welcome Jesus now? I doubt it.
 
Interesting thread!

Will take sometime to get caught up!

I am presently treading a path of celibacy myself for self cultivation purposes =D
 
So I'm going to share an update on my celibacy. A bit graphic but I feel like including it here because it's information and why not.. all things need to be considered.

My body cleared itself at night, about a week ago. It had just gone 5 months since I had last ejaculated. It was automatic and accompanied by sexual imagery.. I've mentioned before the ability to interfere with this process and stop it from happening.. however this time I couldn't.. and for good reason. It was apparent from the colour that there was old blood present; we're talking tanish to light brown. As you can imagine seeing that at 5am in the morning was a bit of a shock. There was no pain or anything, and no intense pleasure either. Just an automatic flushing.

I had a dream a few nights prior which was a clear indication that my body needed to flush itself; symbolically it was pretty obvious.. I could write a paragraph describing it but just take my word for it. At the time I thought it was referring to someone else, but it was obviously my body signalling the need to clean itself of toxic buildup.

Been debating whether to end my celibacy or not. On the one hand I am really enjoying the peace of mind I have right now not devoting any time or energy to sexual indulgence or day dreaming.. on the other hand the presence of blood is making me consider flushing myself intentionally once or twice, to see whether I'm good to continue or now isn't the right time for prolonged sexual abstinence.
 
Wow man, that would make me nervous. Hope everything's alright.
 
Wow man, that would make me nervous. Hope everything's alright.

There's been no difference in urination, before or after, no pain, or any other symptoms that would compel a visit to the GP. No difference in odor or anything else, just a colour difference. Mentally I feel great (job hunting aside). My walks outside have become quite productive in terms of insights about myself.. my head feels very clear and free of turbulence.

That said I'm considering going back to a fortnightly routine until I can take full control over the rest of my physical health (diet, exercise etc) to ensure any risks are minimized. Generally presence of blood with no other symptoms, in those under 40, doesn't need to warrant panic. Obviously there's a direct correlation between my prolonged sexual inactivity and this, given that I've never had anything but good times before this haha.
 
Blood in semen is not that uncommon, and most people freak out because they think it's a lot, but only one drop or less would be needed to discolor semen. People with bladder or prostate issues can make a whole toilet bowl red from just a couple of drops.

Unless there's an infection, then bleeding of that kind is usually due to stagnation, which is another way of saying poor circulation to a certain area. The vessels get weak and suddenly when there's an influx of blood after a long time (like arousal), they can't contain it, so bleeding happens. If it's in the semen but not the urine, then the problem is part of the reproductive apparatus.

If you want to avoid ejaculation but help this out you can try 10 drops burdock tincture 2x daily, and 10 drops saw palmetto tincture 1x daily. Both between meals. You'd need to take them for at least several weeks before you notice a change, as they are alterative in nature.

Whenever I see someone in my practice who has bleeding due to stagnation, I give them cayenne tincture no matter where it's happening. Only 1-2 drops 3x daily is needed. Clears out the whole blood circulatory system and strengthens the vessels.

If you must stimulate the area, then you can still avoid ejaculating. Anything that gets blood flowing to the reproductive system might help, but if you're worried about bleeding then you can try the above methods!
 
i would have thought stimulating the dick, not ejaculating, and not circulating the energy would lead to stagnation? i don't want to start the energy vs entities debate again though ;p

i came across a funny vid on retention, featuring the moorish kingdom? lol, first 10 minutes are on topic, then it goes in a diff direction. some rl wisdom tho.

~black power~

 
i would have thought stimulating the dick, not ejaculating, and not circulating the energy would lead to stagnation? i don't want to start the energy vs entities debate again though ;p

Depends on the person. When it comes to the human body, it's a "use it or lose it" kind of situation. If an area doesn't get worked out, its tissues atrophy and there can be secondary problems, like lymphatic build up or bleeding.

Hyperactivity can also cause bleeding, in those susceptible... but it's usually under-activity that causes stagnation.
 
Can't keep a straight face when a black person days nutz. Deeeez nutz! =D

I don't think it's a good idea to engage in any stimulation if you have no intention of releasing. That is going to place the prostate under strain. I'd rather go back to following through to completion than stimulating without release.
 
Cool :) Let us know how it goes. I know we had a rocky interaction this thread, but I do want to see you well... bleeding is never fun.

Hope things work out for you.
 
Cool :) Let us know how it goes. I know we had a rocky interaction this thread, but I do want to see you well... bleeding is never fun.

Hope things work out for you.

Appreciate that Foreigner. I'm pretty brash and unapologetic in my approach a lot of the time.. I have my issues..
 
Thought I'd bump this old thread which turns out has been rather influential in my life. I credit this thread with motivating me to gave celibacy a try (rather unfortunately described online by the name no fap). No fap has been a real challenge for me as the habit is quite insidious. Fapping was always a highly compulsive act for me particularly when mixed with internet pornography and that combo has been a part of my daily life since the early days of the internet. Even when I was in relationships and got sex regularly I still fapped and looked at porn (though not as often).

The last two years (since reading this thread) I've been challenging myself not to fap or specifically not to have an orgasm with some success. It has been an on-again off-again commitment but after my initial attempt (which included a few false starts) I made it to about 2 months and really enjoyed the change in energy that accompanied this effort. When I relapse, I find a certain amount of resistance towards the next attempt but so far I've found I like the benefits more and continue to make new attempts. These last two years the longest stretch I've had without an orgasm has been 3.5 months. Considering I used to wank at least once a day and often more I was really proud of this accomplishment and it has had many profound benefits that I'm grateful for.

I'm happy to say that the spell porn has had over my life has been completely broken and in general my thoughts about sex and sexual fantasies have become far less intrusive. In other words I'm far more in control of my sexual thoughts and feelings than I was. Sometimes I'll still look at some porn for 2-3 minutes out of curiosity and nostalgia but I've completely lost the desire to jerk off to it and the whole thing looks fake and strange to me and fails to arouse me much. The whole no fap thing is definitely something that takes practice and feels a bit like a detox to me that is an ongoing process. It hasn't impacted my libido significantly and I still give myself sexual pleasure though I strive to stop short of orgasm. I also do kegel exercises with some regularity (which involves tightening the pelvic floor muscles). Some approaches to no fap ask us to refrain entirely from any form of sexual stimulation but I find this overly restrictive for myself and am not really interested in that approach.

I also want to mention that for the last two years I have had a rather large dissociative habit while attempting the no fap. More recently when I quit using all drugs I relapsed again with the fapping after a long dry spell (I've been three months completely sober to date). So interestingly the dissociatives were helping me refrain from fapping to some extent thanks to their anti-addictive properties and so more recently I've been having to learn to reign in the urges again while drug free. Being totally drug free has been an adjustment and I found myself having less energy to care about things like no fap in the beginning, but eventually got back to it and now it's been about a month and a half now since I last had an orgasm. This time around is different not only because I'm completely drug free but because I've also met a girl during that time and things have gotten intimate between us. So even though I've reached a certain level of proficiency in refraining from orgasm on my own, when the prospect of intimacy with another came up I was new to all this and had to make some decisions.

Would I continue to refrain from orgasm while in a relationship? What would intimacy and sex be like without orgasm? I've never been intimate with someone without orgasm being the goal so this has been completely new territory for me. I was a little nervous when bringing this up to my partner as I didn't know how she would take it. The practice of sex and intimacy without orgasm is called karezza and has a loyal following of practitioners. Many claim it has helped restore intimacy to broken sexual relationships and some liken it to a spiritual experience. The following forum is a useful resource on karezza for those interested in learning more: https://www.reuniting.info/forum/405 I'm pleased to say that my partner didn't seem to mind and respected my decision not to have an orgasm. We haven't been intimate very long and only recently had sex and I was very pleased to discover that the sex was really enjoyable and that I didn't really miss the orgasm much. After over a month without orgasm I was worried that the stimulation of vaginal sex would be too much for me to handle and that I either wouldn't last very long or that the stimulation would be too great and I wouldn't be able to stop myself in time before orgasm. That turned out not to be the case for me personally (though others report challenges in this department). Karezza is a very intimate practice that evolves over time so we'll see where it goes but so far it has been was refreshing to enjoy sex without orgasm being the goal. When you think about it orgasm is the ultimate form reward seeking behavior and so I am pleased to say that it isn't ruling my behavior to the extent it used to anymore. I remember how much my personality would change after orgasm. It was almost like being a different person for a while. I feel I'm more authentic as a person now because of it. The girl in this story uses Bluelight too so that's about as much detail as I want to share about my own experience at this point. I'm curious however if other people have practiced karezza in their own relationships and if they care to share what their experience with it was like?

Finally I want to post some really inspiring videos about sexuality and intimacy from my teacher Michael Brown that have influenced my own thinking. I think he does a great job at explaining how humanities obsession with orgasm has come to influence our thinking and how this acts as a barrier towards and masks the true purpose of intimacy in relationships.

Part 1 [9 minutes 18 seconds]


Part2 [8 minutes 23 seconds]
 
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