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Cannabis as addictive as heroin, major new study finds

This was posted in the comments section on the same story in the Daily Mail.

Hall's an anti-drugs adviser to the World Health Organisation. His article is a review, not a study. And his review ignores everything that doesn't fit with his anti-drugs agenda. The largest study ever undertaken concerning cannabis and schizophrenia, undertaken for the AMCD in 2009 (the government's advisory body), showed there was no evidence to support the assertion that cannabis causes schizophrenia. Cannabis use has increased 40-fold in the last 30 years, schizophrenia incidence has stayed about the same. Go figure.

Unsurprisingly this article totally misrepresents the work of Dr Hall. Dr Hall conducted no study - he reviewed other people's studies. If you were a science journalist, you'd know the difference. Dr Hall did not produce his review for the WHO; it is part of his own academic work. The Mail has removed all the words like 'might' and 'may' that Dr Hall uses, because a story is clearly more interesting if it's unambiguous. For example, the review said the evidence suggests smoking cannabis during pregnancy MAY SLIGHTLY reduce the baby's birth weight. In the Mail article this becomes WILL. His review found that cannabis doubles the risk of schizophrenia only amongst daily users of cannabis. Daily users! Separately, nobody has ever argued that driving while under the influence of cannabis is safe, and I doubt anyone thinks smoking cannabis during pregnancy is terribly wise either, particularly as most people smoke it with tobacco.

Thank you Preston for bringing this to our attention - his agenda reeked of a hidden agenda. And comments like this one are very important in that they serve to provide many of us with some much-needed transparency regarding the hidden vested interests of "experts" in the field.

Keep up the great work :)
 
There seem to be a lot of defensive posts in this thread... Are people feeling offended for being called weed addicts?

Imo this review doesn't really state anything new. Cannabis is addictive, and not just psychologically, it's physical as well. Withdrawal symptoms are very real and are well documented (google scholar search "cannabis withdrawal syndrome" if you're not convinced). Typically for me these include: major irritability, insomnia, night sweats, reduced appetite and sex drive, and impaired ability to concentrate (on anything other than thinking about weed). Anyone who's been a daily used at some point in their lives will know this to be true, even if they do their best to deny this to themselves and others. You can be a functional addict and still get all your shit done, doesn't change the fact you still depend on that evening smoke. You might not be willing to go give strangers blowjobs for money for your fix, but you will go to your stoner friends to smoke their stash.

From the first time I smoked weed it only took me 3-4 months to start smoking daily. This has lasted up until now, 6 years later. I've "quit" several times, sometimes several months, yet I always find myself coming back to the herb. No other drug has given me this much trouble to put down. Alcohol, pills, multiple psychedelics, speed, various RCs, and even nicotine have not been hard in the slightest to stop using.

There are times during which I know I should stop smoking for a while because I need my mind to be at its sharpest (exams and dissertation writing). I approach this by gradually reducing my daily intake down to a few crumbs in a bowl at night before stopping. This reduces WDs down to almost nothing and works for me. I'll keep off the weed for the duration I set out for myself, but will instantly start smoking again the moment my exams or whatever are done. This is textbook functional addiction...
 
No, marijuana is not actually “as addictive as heroin”

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Studies have demonstrated a link between marijuana use during pregnancy and low birth weight, "although the effect was smaller than that for tobacco smoking," Hill notes. There is some evidence of a link between prenatal cannabis exposure and a variety of problems later in life, like lower IQ and behavioral problems. But, "uncertainty remains because of the small number of studies, the small samples of women in each and the researchers’ limited ability to control for the confounding effects of other drug use during pregnancy, maternal drug use post-birth and poor parenting."

In short, "it is prudent to counsel women against using cannabis during pregnancy," Hall concludes.

You can get addicted to marijuana, but it's highly unlikely

People who try marijuana are significantly less likely to become dependent on it than users of just about any other drug, including tobacco, heroin, cocaine, alcohol or stimulants: "The life-time risk of developing dependence among those who have ever used cannabis was estimated at 9% in the United States in the early 1990s as against 32% for nicotine, 23% for heroin, 17% for cocaine, 15% for alcohol and 11% for stimulants." More than nine-in-ten people who try marijuana don't get addicted to it.

The risk of addiction is higher (one-in-six) if you start using in your teens. Dependent users can experience withdrawal symptoms when they quit, including "anxiety, insomnia, appetite disturbance and depression." That said, "The adverse health and social consequences of cannabis use reported by cannabis users who seek treatment for dependence appear to be less severe than those reported by alcohol and opioid-dependent people," Hall writes.

There's some evidence that heavy marijuana use can lead to cognitive impairment, particularly if you start in your teens

Some studies have found deficits in learning and attention among regular marijuana users, but "it still remains unclear whether cognitive function recovers fully after cessation of longterm cannabis use." One particularly well-known study posited a link between IQ declines and teen marijuana use, but other research has contested that claim.

There may be a link between heavy teen marijuana use and lower educational attainment, but again the causality is far from clear

A recent study concluded that heavy marijuana use in your teens decreases your likelihood of graduating high school, but as I noted at the time, there could be any number of confounding factors contributing to this finding. Hall notes that "An analysis of twins who were discordant for early cannabis use [e.g., one used while the other didn't] found no difference in risk of early school-leaving between the twins who did and did not use cannabis, suggesting that the association was explained by shared genetic and environmental risk factors. These findings are supported by two earlier analyses of US twin-study data."

There may be links between teen marijuana use and the use of harder drugs, but this research is hotly contested

Studies show some evidence for the so-called "gateway theory," but according to Hall "we don't know whether the link is causal." Many researchers suspect that to the extent there is a gateway drug, it's tobacco, not marijuana.

There is some evidence that marijuana use doubles the likelihood of developing a psychosis

But, "it is difficult to decide whether cannabis use has had any effects on psychosis incidence, because even if the relationship were causal, cannabis use would produce a very modest increase in [overall] incidence," Hall writes. It nevertheless seems prudent to suggest that if you have pre-existing mental conditions and decide to use marijuana (or alcohol or any other drug, for that matter), you're rolling the dice when it comes to your mental health.

There's no good evidence of a link between marijuana use and depression, but some evidence of a link with suicide.

Some studies have suggested a weak link between marijuana use and depression, but those links disappear after you adjust for confounding factors. There seems to be better evidence for connections between marijuana and increased risk of suicide, but several analyses of these studies suggest "that these studies and measures used were too varied to quantify risk meaningfully, and most of the studies had not excluded reverse causation or controlled adequately for confounding," Hall writes.

Regular marijuana use is linked to increased risk of chronic bronchitis

Yes, inhaling flaming plant material into your lungs on a regular basis could impair your respiratory function.

Marijuana smoking probably increases the risk of heart attack in middle aged adults

Among middle-aged and older adults, there is evidence of increased risk of heart attack in the hour or so after smoking marijuana. There is also limited evidence that smoking marijuana may provoke cardiovascular events in young people with undiagnosed cardiovascular disease.

There may be a link between marijuana use and testicular cancer in men

"Studies found a doubling of risk of non-seminoma testicular tumours among cannabis users and suggestive evidence that risk increased with earlier initiation and more frequent use of cannabis," Hall writes. "It is also a biologically plausible effect, given that cannabinoid receptors are found in the male reproductive system."

Overall

The overall take-home message from Hall can be summed up as follows: if you use marijuana, don't overdo it. If you're a teen or a pregnant lady, best not to use marijuana at all.

It's important to note that any effects noted above are primarily among heavy, long-term users. Long-term use of any drug - be it marijuana, alcohol or nicotine - will come with negative health consequences, even if, according to this paper, the consequences are not as bad with marijuana use.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...juana-is-not-actually-as-addictive-as-heroin/
 
I propose an experiment. Let's get two journalists to consent to be in a study about addiction. We shoot one of the journalists up with a reasonable amount of heroin everyday for a month. Do the same thing to the other except change heroin out with smoking pot. Then we discontinue the drugs after one month wait 48 hours then see the results for ourselves.
 
this just in: the public is mad retarded and media outlets are maxed trying to fill the trough with shit for the john q. fuckhead to lap up. what a time to become a journalist
 
Few if any posters have mentioned that the headline is completely unsubstantiated in the article.

I disagree that heroin is less addictive than marijuana. It took me a week to get over most of a two-year addiction to marijuana. After having surgery months ago, I still experience opiate withdrawal, for instance; and you can find reports of the same all over the internet.

I agree with slim overall: people should have the right to do with their mind what they want. But until the brain is more or less fully developed (around age 25), there really isn't a person making a decision; it's a more risk-taking, or sub- (I may get a lot of flack from this) person. Until that age, or maybe 21, I think all psychoactives should be prohibited, barring prescriptions and traditional normative cultural belief.

His "study" is clearly an attack on cannabis. It includes little to no opposing opinion - hardly fair. Hist title means shit. It's about the quality of research, which the article (again) doesn't state. When will people learn to analyze method, no conclusion?
 
After having surgery months ago, I still experience opiate withdrawal

Thats a long time.. sure this isn't an addiction. Throw down some symptoms if you alright with it.
 
You can get addicted to marijuana, but it's highly unlikely

People who try marijuana are significantly less likely to become dependent on it than users of just about any other drug, including tobacco, heroin, cocaine, alcohol or stimulants: "The life-time risk of developing dependence among those who have ever used cannabis was estimated at 9% in the United States in the early 1990s as against 32% for nicotine, 23% for heroin, 17% for cocaine, 15% for alcohol and 11% for stimulants." More than nine-in-ten people who try marijuana don't get addicted to it.

This is from the 40th citation in the article, but he fails to mention the 41st citation, a study from Australia using national survey data, which shows that 22% of people who used cannabis at least five times in the past year were dependent on it, a higher proportion than with any other category of drug (though caffeine and tobacco were notably not included). Opioids, for example, were at 17%.

The author of the rebuttal is guilty of cherry-picking just as those who chose the "cannabis as addictive as heroin" headline are...
 
I gotta say, I think this claim is total bullshit, and I say that as someone who has used both drugs extensively.

I generally see cannabis as more of a habit than a true addiction, although there are definite exceptions to this. I say this as someone who smokes weed every single day and has done so for quite a few years. I realise everybody is different, but I never had any bother stopping smoking for a while whenever I had to for drug tests or because I was travelling etc. Especially if you get a mild benzo script so you can sleep better for the first few days to a week it is easy as piss, at least for me.

Despite the fact I smoke every day and have done so for years, I never have a problem waiting until late in the evening to administer the drug, I know this is the case for many who smoke daily, I can go well over 20 hours without administering cannabis and I will not exhibit any sort of physical or mental craving for the drug. Any long term daily heroin user isn't going to go more than a handful of hours into their day, at most, before they experience serious discomfort if they don't use an opioid.

I think a large part of the reason that people fall into a trap of using cannabis habitually is the fact that they know in most cases it is doing less harm to them than other drugs. I actually prefer heroin to cannabis, yet I smoke cannabis every day and only use heroin a few to a handful of times a year. This is not because I cannot obtain heroin, it is because common fucking sense tells me that I get by just fine smoking a bit of weed to relax but if I start buying bags of dope every week I am likely to fall into a trap that is much harder to get out of.

I just watched an SBS documentary called 'Living with the Enemy', in it they get two people with opposing viewpoints on an issue to live with one another for 5 days in each household. Episode 5 deals with cannabis specifically, the pro cannabis person is either the founder or co founder of the Hemp Embassy in Nimbin, he claims to have smoked cannabis every day (worth noting that he did so without tobacco, might also be worth noting that he seemed to favour joints over bongs or pipes) for 35 years, yet when he had to come down to Melbourne for 5 days without any cannabis he did not seem to struggle at all.

Obviously this is anecdotal evidence, and I know there will be plenty of people who come out saying how hooked they got on weed, I am not saying that it is impossible for it to happen, just that you can't count everyone who smokes cannabis daily as a cannabis addict in the same way you can pretty much say that of anyone who has used heroin every day for any real period of time.

I know a good number of people who seem to be quite addicted to cannabis, truthfully though, I think half or more of them are more dependent on the tobacco they chop into their mix and just don't realise this. Cannabis addiction does exist, but I would wager most people who smoke cannabis every day for 3 to 6 months wont have too much trouble kicking the habit, you get someone doing heroin daily for the same period and you will see a totally different situation, particularly in respect to physical symptoms.

I think it is a bit of a fallacy to describe insomnia as a withdrawal symptom of cannabis too, using anything that helps you sleep every day for a period and then abruptly stopping is obviously going to cause you some difficulty in falling asleep in the short term, that is not the same thing as experiencing negative physical effects because your body is crying out for another dose of the drug to be administered.
 
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Thats a long time.. sure this isn't an addiction. Throw down some symptoms if you alright with it.

I had depression, anxiety, yawning and teary eyes all the time yet I never did before, and intense cravings. Mild, but significant for me. I was addicted to opiates before medically too and had the same symptoms accompanied with insomnia and other things (it's been a while), but with pot I was able to sleep and be in a decent mood after a week or two.
 
I had depression, anxiety, yawning and teary eyes all the time yet I never did before, and intense cravings. Mild, but significant for me. I was addicted to opiates before medically too and had the same symptoms accompanied with insomnia and other things (it's been a while), but with pot I was able to sleep and be in a decent mood after a week or two.

Yeah those paws symptoms can really stick around can't they. I was fortunate I never developed a MJ addiction. Well i guess fortunate would have been a MJ addiction over some of the ones that id did develop an addiction to.
 
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I gotta say, I think this claim is total bullshit, and I say that as someone who has used both drugs extensively.

I generally see cannabis as more of a habit than a true addiction, although there are definite exceptions to this. I say this as someone who smokes weed every single day and has done so for quite a few years. I realise everybody is different, but I never had any bother stopping smoking for a while whenever I had to for drug tests or because I was travelling etc. Especially if you get a mild benzo script so you can sleep better for the first few days to a week it is easy as piss, at least for me.

Despite the fact I smoke every day and have done so for years, I never have a problem waiting until late in the evening to administer the drug, I know this is the case for many who smoke daily, I can go well over 20 hours without administering cannabis and I will not exhibit any sort of physical or mental craving for the drug. Any long term daily heroin user isn't going to go more than a handful of hours into their day, at most, before they experience serious discomfort if they don't use an opioid.

I think a large part of the reason that people fall into a trap of using cannabis habitually is the fact that they know in most cases it is doing less harm to them than other drugs. I actually prefer heroin to cannabis, yet I smoke cannabis every day and only use heroin a few to a handful of times a year. This is not because I cannot obtain heroin, it is because common fucking sense tells me that I get by just fine smoking a bit of weed to relax but if I start buying bags of dope every week I am likely to fall into a trap that is much harder to get out of.

I just watched an SBS documentary called 'Living with the Enemy', in it they get two people with opposing viewpoints on an issue to live with one another for 5 days in each household. Episode 5 deals with cannabis specifically, the pro cannabis person is either the founder or co founder of the Hemp Embassy in Nimbin, he claims to have smoked cannabis every day (worth noting that he did so without tobacco, might also be worth noting that he seemed to favour joints over bongs or pipes) for 35 years, yet when he had to come down to Melbourne for 5 days without any cannabis he did not seem to struggle at all.

Obviously this is anecdotal evidence, and I know there will be plenty of people who come out saying how hooked they got on weed, I am not saying that it is impossible for it to happen, just that you can't count everyone who smokes cannabis daily as a cannabis addict in the same way you can pretty much say that of anyone who has used heroin every day for any real period of time.

I know a good number of people who seem to be quite addicted to cannabis, truthfully though, I think half or more of them are more dependent on the tobacco they chop into their mix and just don't realise this. Cannabis addiction does exist, but I would wager most people who smoke cannabis every day for 3 to 6 months wont have too much trouble kicking the habit, you get someone doing heroin daily for the same period and you will see a totally different situation, particularly in respect to physical symptoms.

I think it is a bit of a fallacy to describe insomnia as a withdrawal symptom of cannabis too, using anything that helps you sleep every day for a period and then abruptly stopping is obviously going to cause you some difficulty in falling asleep in the short term, that is not the same thing as experiencing negative physical effects because your body is crying out for another dose of the drug to be administered.

Well said. I totally agree.
 
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I don't believe weed is as addictive as opiates but it is addictive. I'm sick of people who go through a gram or more a day, everyday and say weed isn't addictive and it's completely benign. Not all, but a lot of stoners try to sit on a high horse and claim they are better than users of any other drug because they can smoke an ounce a day and never suffer ill effects.
 
I actually don't have trouble believing the headline (despite the low quality of articles that the Daily Mail creates).
This is because heroin isn't so terribly addictive, and cannabis is more addicitve than many people realize.
Both can allow users to be functional addicts. Probably far more easily than on alcohol (at least, if heroin were legal and quality were assured).
Withdrawals from heroin are certainly far worse than from cannabis, but people can easily get addicted to anything that brings pleasure or reward: gambling, sex, porn, etc.

The real question is not which is more addictive.
It is whether we will allow people to live their lives the way they want to. And whether we will allow them control over their own minds.

I never had an opiate addiction, but...

I used to call pot Smack Lite™

It got you stoned but not as stoned as smack
It got you addicted but not as addicted as smack
It resulted in withdrawals symptoms but not as intense as smack

Smack Lite™, it's the smack you do when you're not doing smack - Smack Lite™
 
Half the problem with Skunk its THC heavy and missing the other canbaboids which have the calmative and neuroprotective properties.
 
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