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Can you truly respect someone who claims religion?

Birc0014

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
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890
Do you immediately lose respect for someone once they categorically admit their beliefs in religion or god?

Do you think its possible for someone to be intelligent and also hold religious beliefs? I refrain from saying believe in god here because Stephen Hawkings (who is a fuckofalot more intelligent than most) makes a pretty good argument for his construct of "GOD" but it isnt one you are going to read about in any scripture, and who am I to argue with a wheelchair wizard anyways?

With all the Charlie Hedbo shit in the news I cant help but wonder why more people aren't taking the Bill Maher approach and just completely remove any form of religion from intelligent debate. I'm really starting to wonder when all the politicians, public figures, celebrities, and other KOLs who dont endorse any religion are going to stand up and say enough is enough. The fucking stone ages are over, nobody would take you seriously if you stood up and declared your beliefs and your 'rights' to believe in Santa Claus? So why Mohammed, Jesus, the toothfairy or any other ridiculous mythological being that instantly identifies you as being 'more right' than the next jackass making equally impossible claims?

I'm not religious but I'm spiritual? I don't believe in god but I believe in a higher power? My mom didn't take my tooth and leave money a fairy did? I equally disparage and openly mock all of you, take responsibility for your own existence and do something about it. Just try not to fuck up too badly or end someone elses in the process.
 
Taking responsibility for your own existence does not equate to not being spiritual. :D

Nor does being spiritual equal believing in God. And I also think you can consider a higher beingness and not have it mean God or even Gods.
 
uh huh, and define in concrete terms what spirituality is exactly? for that matter define the same for higher beingness...try to do it a couple sentences or less
 
To answer the original question posted as the title, absolutely. Who are you to judge people for their own personal beliefs? This is not something based on a matter of "intelligence", but on ones own personal experience of there existence. I think you should respect everyone until they give you a real reason not to.
 
I don't care at all what people believe. I care about how they believe it. I don't automatically lose respect for anything, even when people do very unwise things. To me in terms of stupidity, smoking ciggies ranks way higher than belief in or membership of any religion.

every individual deserves a default respect. they earn disrespect, not the other way around.

I don't believe in god but I believe in a higher power?

what, like sharks or lions?
 
To answer the original question posted as the title, absolutely. Who are you to judge people for their own personal beliefs? This is not something based on a matter of "intelligence", but on ones own personal experience of there existence. I think you should respect everyone until they give you a real reason not to.

Like admitting they believe in the Easter Bunny? Except this bunny blows up federal day cares and cuts journalists heads off on youtube...personal experience of your existence led you to independently arrive at a 2000 year old myth? thats a lot of fuckin coincidences no?
 
Like admitting they believe in the Easter Bunny?

If an adult said to me that they truely believed in the easter bunny, they would solicit concern, not disrespect.

Except this bunny blows up federal day cares and cuts journalists heads off on youtube...personal experience of your existence led you to independently arrive at a 2000 year old myth? thats a lot of fuckin coincidences no?

what coincidence do you mean? i have no idea what you are talking about here.

it does you no good to be so quick to judge.
 
In my opinion, the minute someone voluntarily subscribes to a belief system like -insert religion here- they have forfeited their right to be respected for holding said beliefs. I'll go one further and now categorize them as a fucking idiot.
 
what coincidence do you mean? i have no idea what you are talking about here.

Read it again, its obviously not your own experience if it has led you to the same bullshit as millions of other people. You didnt invent the cult you just joined it and left your self respect at the door.
 
Also this isnt as a result of being 'too quick to judge' I read a lot of religious scripture from all the Big Brand Faiths and guess what? Its all based on the same lies, just told a little differently depending on timing, circumstance, and audience, just like any shitty con or magic trick.
 
I'm not religious in any way shape or form...but to me you sound like the fucking idiot here buddy. Why are you so angry? Do you really envy others faith and beliefs that much? You must be a very unhappy person.
 
I'm not religious in any way shape or form...but to me you sound like the fucking idiot here buddy. Why are you so angry? Do you really envy others faith and beliefs that much? You must be a very unhappy person.

Haha! You make a lot of presuppositions here for a Cosmic Giraffe, where did you get anger and envy from? I guess you dont spend much time challenging yourself other than on your MMA views...buddy. What kind of conclusions could we jump to from that? I'm fairly happy, I wouldnt say unhappy so much as fed up. I went in to fairly significant detail in the above about that had you bothered to read it and form your own views as opposed to devolving into personal attacks. Maybe read a book sometime and lay off the rageahol...thanks for your input though...brah...
 
There you go again passing your judgements based upon your own insecurities. People probably find it very hard to be around someone like you, though I do hear misery loves misery. I don't think many will agree with you here on this one.
Your entire post is a personal attack on anyone that has any belief in any form of higher power or spirituality.
 
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Haha again loving those presups, I'll make one of my own you are a qualified psychoanalyst because you took psy100 right? At least attempt to hide your ignorance and open another tab, then use google, its 'misery loves company' ... jackass
 
Your condescending remarks will get you know where here Birch. You wanted opinions, there is one. Try not to take yourself so seriously in the mean time, and maybe consider climbing down off of that high horse before you fall down and hurt yourself.
 
I must admit, I am sitting smiling - I've copped flack for being anti-Religious and anti-CHristian - Birc0014 is redefining my position to 'Moderate' :D

Spirituality - the recognition of the evidence that body/brain does not and cannot explain the human condition and experience.

Higher beingness - the possibility that human awareness and consciousness is NOT the be-all and end-all of existence. The possible source for experiences many people have ranging from out-of-body to sudden inspiration and awareness. Perhaps even the source of creativity.

There you go... :D
 
i believe that everyone has the right to believe in what ever they want, but when a perons absurd and outdated believes have a direct inpact on the rest of us that where my problems arise... e.g. birth control, terrorism, ect. ect... but on the other hand if someone has a valid experience with "god/ higher power"(other then believing in what ever just cause your parents did and everyone around you does)... if i wake up tomorrow and a light shines down from the heaven and a voice say hey pill billy im god, im real and you need to do whatever then i would become a believe... but from my experiences all forms of religion are corrupt and only serve to keep those in power with more power and money... but thats just my opion
 
OP's hilarious belligerence aside...

I've wondered myself whether it's legitimate to categorically lose respect for a person based on something they believe. After some deliberation, I've concluded I can. Not normally something I admit because it's hardly PC, but I'll highlight my reasoning starting with more extreme examples:

Who are you to judge people for their own personal beliefs?

Nice as it would be if we could all just get along, if someone tells me they hate black people, believes 9/11 was a good thing or thinks the Jews should all have been wiped out in the Holocaust, it doesn't mater if they're a powerless hick, I am still gonna call that person a piece of shit. There are some beliefs we don't tolerate and for good reason. No, it's not okay to believe we should practice the Aztec religion again. No it's not okay to be a neo-Nazi, or a religious extremist, or any kind of extremist whatsoever. None of these things are illegal because ostensibly we're allowed to believe whatever we want in the eyes of the law. And obviously these are examples of repugnant and extreme ideologies, which I am not saying is true of present day mainstream religions. However, they highlight the point that really, yes you CAN judge a person for their beliefs. This idea that a person's culture or religion or philosophy is some sacred thing that must never be questioned sounds like a good thing to say, but the moment you actually look at it, it falls right on its ass.

Now that's out of the way, here's how I react when someone tells me they're a practicing Christian / Jew / Muslim / anything where some guy stands on a pulpit and tells you exactly what you must believe. I nod, smile and decide never to engage this person in any kind of discussion that might even verge on philosophical. Because if you believe:

* That God is this guy who created everything, and
* That if you don't get down on your knees and beg his son who was nailed to a cross two milennia ago to save you, he will drop your eternal soul into a furnace and leave it there forever, but
* That he loves you, and
* That you were born deserving it anyway because your most distant great grandparents disobeyed him and ate an apple, and
* That the entire Bible is the infalliable word of God rather than a work of man, and
* That to serve his will we must all go to a man-made institution with a long history of nothing but corruption and hypocrisy, and
* That God deliberately provides us no other evidence for any of this because believing something with no rational reason to is something he considers a virtue, and
* That questioning any of this is a sin too, and
* That they need your money...

... then how the hell am I supposed to have an intelligent conversation with you?! I know it's an incredibly rude thing to say and usually I don't - I'm sure none of my Christian friends are aware of just how jaw-droppingly stupid I think their beliefs are - but come on, you should not get a special exemption to follow obvious scams just because you slap the title 'religion' onto it!

Does it mean you're not intelligent? - no, obviously not, plenty of very smart people are religious, but clearly this is a blind spot in your capacity for rational thought! So I apologise because this will offend some people, but to me it's that simple!

But the real issue is not the belief itself. It's the effect the belief has on others. Now I know plenty of devout believers who see there's a problem with religion influencing state policy, and also that even the Bible actually advocates that everyone must find their own way to God so the state should not interfere... but plenty do, including a great many policy-makers and loads of voters. And even for those who don't think theocracy is teh way to go, there are still things I take serious issue with. Such as your supposed right to brainwash your kids with this stuff. Deliberate indoctrination is not okay, it's repulsive. I have witnessed families inculcate their children in the most jaw-droppingly manipulative ways. At the end of the day you can believe whatever you like, but don't take someone who has no life experience and trusts everything you say, then twist their emotions and their identity and their sense of community around what you want them to think! Again, I realise not every Christian does this, but it's the norm. And every time I have to go to a baptism or I see little kids handing out Bibles on the street with their parents, it makes me want to kick a priest in the balls! While we're on the topic, knocking on people's doors to push your religion on them, or expecting them to follow your personal rituals such as saying grace, is extremely disrespectful! To anyone who's pissed off at anything I've said, well it goes double for me!

Now that I have that off my chest...

... I'm a lot more tolerant towards a person's beliefs when they don't want to affect other people with them. For instance, I know a bunch of mainstream Buddhists and you know what? That's great! I think turning Buddhism into a religion misses the point, but hey, that's just my opinion and it's no reason we can't get along. Similarly, I've debated with plenty of mystics before who are open to challenges and will challenge me right back, where it's all fair game. I may come right out and say something they believe is silly, but in the end I can respect that they arrived at their conclusions via independent thought rather than blindly swallowing everything some holy man told them. Hell, the same applies for materialists. Had plenty of debates with them too.

Oh and if you don't want to talk about it I can respect that too, there are times I don't feel inspired to rush to the defense of my own beliefs either.

Also, I've made a point thus far of mentioning mainstream religions, but now and then I'll meet a really cool Muslim philosopher who takes things deeper and makes something both unintrusive and beneficial to himself out of it... or I'll talk to, say, a Christian Universalist, who does not believe the Bible is the word of God OR that he's sending anybody to Hell. Awesome! What interesting people! What colourful interpretations! What clear examples of independent thought! This is where diversity shines!

Okay I've said my bit, you can start throwing rocks now.
 
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