Can you be born gay or is it a choice?

[RhythmSpring]

Just because you weren't born with a sexual preference doesn't mean it was a choice.

Tastes develop over time, that doesn't mean we have *control* over it.

Do we have control over our tastes in general? I don't think so.

 

[Journyman16]

I'm of two minds about this.

On the one hand, to assert it is by birth would seem to invalidate Evolution - not something I am particularly against, but a lot of people saying the various sexually-different among us are that way because of genetics are ardent Evolutionists, or at least, have no problems toeing the Evolution party line.

But just how could that be so? Those not male-female orientated would tend not to have children, and even though some might, Evolution says it only takes a survival preference for one gene set to become dominant. There's isn't much that is less survival than not having kids. :D

But, then there is alternative information that comes from before the Internet. A herd of deer was placed on an island near San Francisco - I can't recall if it was on Red Island or if they were Red Deer, but I do recall the results. With unlimited food supply the population exploded but after a short time the researchers noticed some strange behaviours. The deer became more aggressive and they noticed homosexual behaviour as well. Also diseases we normally associate with our modern world became prevalent, from brain tumors to heart diseases.

So while homosexuality might not be genetic-related, maybe it can be instigated by something like population pressures? Like a race reaction to being too close to too many people and the breeding switch gets clicked off for some?

 

[Journyman16]

as for gays choosing. NO.

why logically anyone would choose an "option" causing so much stress is beyond me. there are 20 times more available women than gay men so also thats a limiting factor.

Maybe they aren't choosing FOR anything, but instead choosing AGAINST something that has brought them pain or changed how they view life?

It might also be that the world has changed. We have tens of thousands of years of a system with men and women in different roles. What does one do when the world they are born into doesn't fit their predisposed characteristics? If men have become wusses, where does a woman find a dominant male? IF women have become self-sufficient, where does a man find a 'little missus' to look after?

Nature versus Nurture is a very complicated tangle and only made more so by what we have learned about epigenetics. Until we have the map completed, it may be premature to tell someone they are "simply wrong."

 

[Foreigner]

At the end of your development, whether nature or nurture, you don't have control over who or what turns you on. But the identities "gay", " straight", and "bi" are choices.

If you go to China, "gay" is a western thing. It means you're one of those guys that likes to live in ghettos and dance on pride floats.

Many men who are into men call themselves queer because gay is a cultural label. I'm into men but I only use the word gay for conversation sake. I don't identify as gay because I specifically distance myself from sociopathic, consumerist, body fascist gay culture.

Likewise there are men who are into men who call themselves straight because they mostly are, except for the odd time they fuck a guy.

The confusion comes from the identity labels. The underlying attractions and behaviors are a lot easier to understand. Whatever people think of themselves as is merely the software of their self-concept. The body, the physical animal meat space, has its own plans and designs. Hence we see megachurch evangelicals getting caught in motels with boys. The software is just the social song and dance, nothing more. Your body already dictates what it wants, the origins of which, IMO, are quite irrelevant because they won't ever change.

That's why I find the labels pointless. Kinsey showed that only a small number of people were close to 100% anything. The rest showed deviances. Labels make people choose false software that limits instinctual feelings. Coming out as gay these days is just as imprisoning as saying you're straight because you've now adopted a series of social moores which dictate what others think of you. Why bother? I'm a free person, I can do what I want. I might never sleep with a woman but if one day I do it shouldn't be controversial because "zoooommmg I thought you were gay?!" Likewise guys who have a weird one night stand who then go off freaking out about how they might be gay, and the crisis it causes them. It's so stupid. Just do what your soft animal body wants, it doesn't have to mean some major life overhaul. It's your body enjoy it how you want in your limited time here.

 

[LuGoJ]

wow

sex and cheese are the same.

maybe you can choose if you are bi and you can suppress your personally undesirable traits.

as for gays choosing. NO.

why logically anyone would choose an "option" causing so much stress is beyond me. there are 20 times more available women than gay men so also thats a limiting factor.

sorry but you're simply wrong

I don't think he meant that it was a choice. I think he meant that our experiences in life can have a great influence on what we ultimate become. The idea that everyone has their sexuality sealed in stone the second they are born kind of irks me though. Wouldn't it be reasonable to believe that's how some people are, yet some people may be influenced by life experience more than innate traits?

I always thought that people were always born with their sexuality sealed in stone, until I met Harrold. Harrold is a gay friend that's 78, he says he never had a desire or attraction for men for almost his entire life. Was happily married to his wife for 40 years with kids. His wife died when he was 66 and he remained single until 70 years of age. At this point he claims he developed his attraction for men and does not find any attraction towards women anymore. He currently identifies as gay, not bi. Was he born gay, bi or straight? If you ask him, he will say he was born straight. If you asked me 10 years ago I would have said he was born gay and was unhappy and repressing it his whole life. At the end of the day I came to a realization though, who are we to tell him what his sexuality was at birth?

Everyone is different, everyone's brain is different and everyone develops differently. The important thing is that we let each other live our lives as we want, building the relationships we want, so long as everything is consensual. We should respect those that feel it is not a choice for them, and we should respect those that do feel it is a choice for them.

 

[Pagey]

Choice IMO. Childhood influences and overall life experience gives you your perception and allows you to understand what you enjoy in this world.

Well that sentence completely contradicted your premise. If my mother had been kidnapped by an alien when I was a child and I grew up with a traumatic fear of aliens I would hardly have chosen to be scared of aliens, would I?
It's a stupid example but I hope you can manage to extrapolate...

Actually there are a bunch of studies that have shown that the brains of gay men (I think there has been more research on them than lesbians which is why I'm mentioning them) differ from those of straight men and share more in common with those of straight women. A friend of mine studying neuroscience is actually currently doing a study on how straight men's sense of direction and general spatial perception differs from that of straight women and gay men, who share similar PHYSICAL characteristics on that front. So I'm inclined to believe you don't know much about what you're talking about frankly

All of that being said I don't see why it matters to anyone. Let the gay people be gay. Let the straight people be straight. If it bruises your ego a little you've got bigger issues to deal with.

 

[MissVL]

IMO homosexuality is genetic and not something you can choose.

 

[Abject]

Pavlovs dogs iirc

 

[Pagey]

^Well clearly conditioning's not exactly applicable or I'm pretty sure lots of people would have 'opted' out of being gay due to how they were treated.
Which just goes to show it's something a little deeper than a superficial reflex.

 

[Abject]

clearly

 

[DOB]

gay is NOT genetic,its hormonal brain development disorder,too much estrogen in womb makes you gay.Some gays are born gay,it have nothing to do with how they were raised

then theres second group,technicaly straight but becose of low IQ,engage in gay sex,prisonsare prime example,you could lock me in room full of dudes for century I wouldnt touch their hairy chocodonut ever! this type,the straight men doing sex with kids,animals,other men or even their family becose they are so stupid I hate them

 

[PotatoMan]

Well that sentence completely contradicted your premise. If my mother had been kidnapped by an alien when I was a child and I grew up with a traumatic fear of aliens I would hardly have chosen to be scared of aliens, would I?
It's a stupid example but I hope you can manage to extrapolate..

?? After you experience your childhood and are influenced in which ever way and depending on if you may have experimented is a much stronger reason for a person's sexual preference rather than a "cop-out" answer saying we were born with is and there's nothing we can do about it. So if this was the case, some people who don't want to be will continue to be gay because they cannot do anything about it?? That sounds similar to a doctor telling you that you are helpless and depressed and if you don't take these pills there is nothing you can do about your "disorder".

Cop out

gay is NOT genetic,its hormonal brain development disorder,too much estrogen in womb makes you gay.

Now this is wrong for sure. There are male's who are feminine with high oestrogen and not gay.... That's hormonal imbalance, that has nothing to do with being gay.

Because if hormonal imbalance was the reason people were gay then it will be a scientific fact that this is what causes it.

 

[alasdairm]

All my friends tell me I'm wrong.

your friends sound pretty cool.

alasdair

 

[Erikmen]

I would think it could be both but it depends how you define being gay.

I have two kids, one is a boy. He's getting older and I love him to much to force him to be someone he isn't.
It's his life and we want him to be happy and healthy. I believe he likes girls, but above all we try to
teach how to respect others and to accept the different.

It sounds nice to say but it's not easy.

The only thing I want for both is a life free of drugs or drinking.

One thing I agree is that most of us know what we wish for, sexually speaking, from early ages.

 

[Journyman16]

The confusion comes from the identity labels...

...That's why I find the labels pointless. Kinsey showed that only a small number of people were close to 100% anything. The rest showed deviances. Labels make people choose false software that limits instinctual feelings. Coming out as gay these days is just as imprisoning as saying you're straight because you've now adopted a series of social moores which dictate what others think of you. Why bother? I'm a free person, I can do what I want. I might never sleep with a woman but if one day I do it shouldn't be controversial because "zoooommmg I thought you were gay?!" Likewise guys who have a weird one night stand who then go off freaking out about how they might be gay, and the crisis it causes them. It's so stupid. Just do what your soft animal body wants, it doesn't have to mean some major life overhaul. It's your body enjoy it how you want in your limited time here.

!00% agreement about labels, boxes or whatever we want to call them. Trying to ID by a single word is impossible when we talk about people.

Best comment from a guy from years back that I heard... "I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is..." :D

 

[Erikmen]

Potato - I think your cousin might be bi. For bisexuals, it's a choice. For me it's not. There were times when I had such horrible experiences with girlfriends that I would have converted to homosexuality if it were possible.

I read an article once saying that all humans are bisexuals, not active ones, but it says we have some part of the other sex carried in our subconscious. It's just a matter of have that provoked by someone you really care about.
I don't know if that's true. It seems to generalize it, but it tends to happen more with women as it wouldn't be such an issue for most of them.

 

[Erikmen]

!00% agreement about labels, boxes or whatever we want to call them. Trying to ID by a single word is impossible when we talk about people.

Best comment from a guy from years back that I heard... "I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is..." :D

Lol..

 

[DOB]

?? After you experience your childhood and are influenced in which ever way and depending on if you may have experimented is a much stronger reason for a person's sexual preference rather than a "cop-out" answer saying we were born with is and there's nothing we can do about it. So if this was the case, some people who don't want to be will continue to be gay because they cannot do anything about it?? That sounds similar to a doctor telling you that you are helpless and depressed and if you don't take these pills there is nothing you can do about your "disorder".

Cop out




Now this is wrong for sure. There are male's who are feminine with high oestrogen and not gay.... That's hormonal imbalance, that has nothing to do with being gay.

Because if hormonal imbalance was the reason people were gay then it will be a scientific fact that this is what causes it.

high estrogen after they have been born....... the first months of brain development in womb thats what I mean

 

[Colonel Contin]

I read an article once saying that all humans are bisexuals, not active ones, but it says we have some part of the other sex carried in our subconscious. It's just a matter of have that provoked by someone you really care about.
I don't know if that's true. It seems to generalize it, but it tends to happen more with women as it wouldn't be such an issue for most of them.

There's probably a sort of 'sliding scale' at work. I'd say everybody is probably some percent inclined toward men or women from birth and experience may sway that percentage to some degree. I agree though, I doubt most people are 100% straight or 100% gay... maybe in practice.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I read an article once saying that all humans are bisexuals, not active ones, but it says we have some part of the other sex carried in our subconscious. It's just a matter of have that provoked by someone you really care about.
I don't know if that's true. It seems to generalize it, but it tends to happen more with women as it wouldn't be such an issue for most of them.

I used to think this when I was younger and first accepting myself; but then I met lots of people who really are actually heterosexual, and some who are homosexual/gay/lesbian, in that they're just simply not sexually attracted to the opposite gender and never have been even if they've had sex with people of the opposite gender/sex or were married at one time.

If everyone was really bisexual or was bisexual but didn't know it society would be totally different, LGBT people wouldn't need to come out at all, issues like same sex marriage, LGBT rights, etc. wouldn't be issues at all.

The confusion comes from the identity labels...

...That's why I find the labels pointless. Kinsey showed that only a small number of people were close to 100% anything. The rest showed deviances. Labels make people choose false software that limits instinctual feelings. Coming out as gay these days is just as imprisoning as saying you're straight because you've now adopted a series of social moores which dictate what others think of you. Why bother? I'm a free person, I can do what I want. I might never sleep with a woman but if one day I do it shouldn't be controversial because "zoooommmg I thought you were gay?!" Likewise guys who have a weird one night stand who then go off freaking out about how they might be gay, and the crisis it causes them. It's so stupid. Just do what your soft animal body wants, it doesn't have to mean some major life overhaul. It's your body enjoy it how you want in your limited time here.

Kinsey and the other sex researchers who did those studies decades ago never claimed that very few people are really heterosexual or gay/lesbian.

The Kinsey scale has one section for being hetero, at the other end is gay/lesbian, and everything in between those two points consists of bisexuality.

The studies themselves were interesting to read about; but they're very dated, biased, and Kinsey did interview a lot of bisexual and gay men, men in prisons, and male prostitutes, lesbian and bi women, women in prisons, and female prostitutes, so that's why people claim that the studies show that very few people are really heterosexual/gay or lesbian but that's not what the studies actually show, since they simply just show the variations of human sexuality.

Plus, no other human sexuality researcher has ever shown that most people are bisexual, or that it's rare or impossible for someone to be gay/lesbian, or heterosexual.