Misc Can one get over heroin addiction and go on to use other drugs?

[Rio Fantastic]

Hello,

So I have struggled with heroin addiction for a couple of years now, on and off. My longest bout of having an actual heroin habit has only been about three months, but my longest uninterrupted general opiate habit was about six months, from heroin to subutex back to heroin again then clean. It's something I've struggled with for a while, but I'm clean now and plan on staying that way, hopefully sticking to it this time. I have no illusions about how to stay clean, and know that using any form of drug in early recovery - even weed & alcohol - is a sure-fire route to full blown addiction. However, I know plenty of people that have gone from being a heroin addict to just using other drugs recreationally and not have it lead to opiate addiction again. I'm not asking about just any other drug though, I want to know if you or anyone you know has gone from having an addiction to hard opiates to using real stimulants on a very regular basis without going back to opiates. I ask this because I've never seen myself as a heroin addict - I've ALWAYS been an "upper" kind of guy rather than a downer guy, but of course, heroin doesn't care what drugs you were into before, and heroin can snag you whether you're into downers or not. I've always been into uppers, and have always thought that I'd have a stimulant habit one day. This may sound silly, but I've always wanted a stimulant habit. It doesn't sound bad at all, it in fact sounds like a walk in the park compared to a heroin habit. As I'm sure anyone who's been through severe withdrawals can attest to, the "withdrawal" from stimulants really doesn't sound bad. Eating & sleeping a lot and being depressed? Shit, that sounds like a walk in the fucking park compared to heroin withdrawals. By the way, I'm talking about an amphetamine or methamphetamine or, if I'm well off, maybe a coke habit, not a crack habit. Crack is far too short lived, and I have no idea how people can even maintain any kind of crack habit, and maybe it's because I've just never had good crack but with only two exceptions I've always had a better high from good cocaine.

so tl;dr I want to get a speed/meth/coke habit in the future - have you, or have you ever known anyone who's had a stimulant addiction AFTER a heroin addiction, without going back to heroin?

 

[SKR]

I certainly had a huge stimulant habit for over a decade the longest every day using was 9 months, I had 3 weeks off then did another 9 month stretch and enough was enough I quit and didn't look back. Cravings to use are insane, anxiety can be physically crippling holding your knotted stomach buckled over, shit gets a grip of you and the only way to release that knot is a big shot of meth, halfway through the shot you taste it in your mouth, your heart is racing and vapours are pushed out through your lungs as you finish the shot with cough and with a seriously shaky hand you've removed the rig and through tunnel vision and rushing water\high pitched sounds in your ears you manage to stab yourself multiple times trying to put the cap back on the needle. All you can think about is fucking strippers or getting up on stage as the frontman of a hardcore rock band, or preferably both at the same time...........and you go and do it!!!

Then I turned my back on all that, 9 years passed and I embark on an oxycodone habit for a chronic pain condition that lasts 18months so far, I'm on a quarter gram minimum per day and I use it because I have to keep functioning, I have to keep working, I have to help run a household and I have to stay well in opiate hell. Huh and to think I was so proud of not catching the H habit plenof friends chose all those years ago and here I am...rant over

Yes I've known heroin users become ice users, cocaine users. The IV heroin users were astonished at the rush and euphoria and couldn't believe they had dismissed the drug previously. And yes they switched, had they had a steady supply of high purity heroin then they may have stuck with that...but when I stuck them with high purity meth and a decent supply the choice was easy - chase a high they might get buying heroin or get the rush and high guaranteed multiple times every time they buy. But you have to be ready for the switch, when you prefer the easy comedowns of opiates and worth WD risk or love your glass now and the rush and euphoria and the way it makes you masturbate the skin right off your cock. But it can be a stressful life, it can be dangerous. But it can be done!

 

[crzydiamond]

The main issue if you are doing IV stimulants is that you're going to be very tempted to do a shot of H to soften the comedown.

For instance when I would do IV cocaine and was done after being up a few days and was fielding but couldn't get a decent high cause all the dopamine was depleted---well, it becomes would you rather do a shot of H and chill, or sit there for hours fiendish and anxious and craving..etc ...etc ...etc.

Most people who have had opiate experience will use it for the comedown. And before you know it you've got 2 habits

Incidentally, I had a 5-6 month cocaine run where I'd take at most a few days off a month. And withdrawal was not so nice as in college when I'd do a few lines of crank stay up all weekend then crash and sleep for two days then eat like a horse. Withdrawal from a heavy cocaine habit (can't speak to meth as I never had a heavy habit) is rough. You lay in bed rolling back n forth and back and forth, all while groaning uncontrollably. You have body parts that won't stop twitching, like you have to keep shaking your leg or tapping your fingers. I used to feel the anxiety the above poster mentioned--you feel edgy and shaky and miserable then you do a shot and feel calm and better--soothing like heroin soothes when you're sick.

You have to have a pretty heavy habit to get withdrawal from stims but it happens. But it's not as nice as sleeping for a few days and eating a lot

Tl;dr. Most former opiate users are going to use opiates to come down from the stimulant binge rather than suffer through it. That can lead to two habits instead of one...

 

[SKR]

^very good point regarding comedown, I used to just smoke weed for come downs, I enjoyed the combination of extreme sleep deprivation and Cannabis.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

The main issue if you are doing IV stimulants is that you're going to be very tempted to do a shot of H to soften the comedown.

For instance when I would do IV cocaine and was done after being up a few days and was fielding but couldn't get a decent high cause all the dopamine was depleted---well, it becomes would you rather do a shot of H and chill, or sit there for hours fiendish and anxious and craving..etc ...etc ...etc.

Most people who have had opiate experience will use it for the comedown. And before you know it you've got 2 habits

Incidentally, I had a 5-6 month cocaine run where I'd take at most a few days off a month. And withdrawal was not so nice as in college when I'd do a few lines of crank stay up all weekend then crash and sleep for two days then eat like a horse. Withdrawal from a heavy cocaine habit (can't speak to meth as I never had a heavy habit) is rough. You lay in bed rolling back n forth and back and forth, all while groaning uncontrollably. You have body parts that won't stop twitching, like you have to keep shaking your leg or tapping your fingers. I used to feel the anxiety the above poster mentioned--you feel edgy and shaky and miserable then you do a shot and feel calm and better--soothing like heroin soothes when you're sick.

You have to have a pretty heavy habit to get withdrawal from stims but it happens. But it's not as nice as sleeping for a few days and eating a lot

Tl;dr. Most former opiate users are going to use opiates to come down from the stimulant binge rather than suffer through it. That can lead to two habits instead of one...

I'm aware of this temptation. By the way, I've never shot stimulants and don't plan to. It was stupid to switch to the needle with heroin, it was done only out of economics. I figured the way around the temptation to use H to come down would be to always have a large stash of benzos on hand, I found enough Valium and some weed and even after a heavy coke or base session the comedown would be non-existent.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

The main issue if you are doing IV stimulants is that you're going to be very tempted to do a shot of H to soften the comedown.

For instance when I would do IV cocaine and was done after being up a few days and was fielding but couldn't get a decent high cause all the dopamine was depleted---well, it becomes would you rather do a shot of H and chill, or sit there for hours fiendish and anxious and craving..etc ...etc ...etc.

Most people who have had opiate experience will use it for the comedown. And before you know it you've got 2 habits

Incidentally, I had a 5-6 month cocaine run where I'd take at most a few days off a month. And withdrawal was not so nice as in college when I'd do a few lines of crank stay up all weekend then crash and sleep for two days then eat like a horse. Withdrawal from a heavy cocaine habit (can't speak to meth as I never had a heavy habit) is rough. You lay in bed rolling back n forth and back and forth, all while groaning uncontrollably. You have body parts that won't stop twitching, like you have to keep shaking your leg or tapping your fingers. I used to feel the anxiety the above poster mentioned--you feel edgy and shaky and miserable then you do a shot and feel calm and better--soothing like heroin soothes when you're sick.

You have to have a pretty heavy habit to get withdrawal from stims but it happens. But it's not as nice as sleeping for a few days and eating a lot

Tl;dr. Most former opiate users are going to use opiates to come down from the stimulant binge rather than suffer through it. That can lead to two habits instead of one...

How much and for how long were you using to get those symptoms? This really surprises me. I've heard several current and former tweakers with meth habits describe the withdrawals, even after very very prolonged use, and they all say basically the same thing, which is that they spend a few days sleeping for ages, they've given me different precise amounts but they all say a lot, one dude even said for the first three days he was sleeping 18 hours a day! And they said they only got out of bed to eat loads and was ravenously hungry during their waking moments, and basically spent the entire time in bed watching TV, with very, very severe depression. All but one described having fleeting suicidal ideation at times, so I know that the depression is meant to be bad. Perhaps cocaine withdrawal is worse than meth?? Even so, your description doesn't sound pleasant, but be honest here - I'm guessing you've had a real heroin habit before, would you rather go cold turkey from a real H habit or go through those cocaine withdrawals again, honestly? Also, I'm aware that after using meth or amphetamine (even coke, despite it's short half life) sleep can sometimes be close to impossible, but from what all of the aforementioned tweakers told me, and from what I've read online, I thought that it was different once you'd been awake for like 3+ days, and that you are so sleep deprived that as soon as the stimulant wears off your body is so tired that insomnia isn't a problem then, and that you fall straight to sleep. Was that different for you?

 

[crzydiamond]

@Rio. You have a point. When I snorted crank ( pre-crystal days) or cocaine it is quite a different drug than shooting. So yes, I would expect that some Valium would be fine and you wouldn't experience the hellish cocaine wd. And it may be different than meth in worse wd, I do know that after a 3 day awake doing maybe a half gram of crank the comedown was like you said--18+ straight hours of sleep, lots of eating, and feeling blah for a few days

Yes I've had some nasty h habits. I'd take the wd of a 6 month IV coke habit over a heavy opiate habit wd any day. Not that I want either lol. I haven't shot cocaine in about 2 1/2 years and heroin in about 1 1/2. Problem for me is, as bad as an opiate habit is, I can live, sustain, and function on it. Shooting cocaine on the other hand fucks up my life every time. Because with h I do a shot and go about my day. With coke, all I want to do is redose every 15 minutes. Which means I will sit in the house doing nothing but get high. So it sends me in a very fast downward spiral. Most of my bad life consequences came from the coke, not the dope.


When I was up for 5+ days yes, as soon as a shot wore off I could pass out completely and not wake for like a day. That was when I was at utter exhaustion. When on a 1-2 day binge it was harder, I could lay down n try n sleep but my brain wouldn't shut off

The worst symptoms I mention I got when I was doing anywhere from a gram to an 8 ball per day...obviously the 8 ball was down the road when I had such a tolerance I would do 1/4 to 1/2 g shots. Not that I measured, I could eyeball the pile of powder in the cap...
And those habits were like 4-8 month runs. It varied of course, but those were the worst runs

If you stay away from the IV it may be ok for you. But there is always that temptation to see how it is to IV coke, once you've shot dope and are into the whole IV thing it's easy to transfer it. All it takes is reading on BL how great the rush is or how it's 100x stronger and your brain starts thinking "hmmm..." Trust me it's an entirely different drug, and you won't sustain an IV coke (or meth) habit for long...

I think I got all your questions lol if not let me know

 

[Rio Fantastic]

@Rio. You have a point. When I snorted crank ( pre-crystal days) or cocaine it is quite a different drug than shooting. So yes, I would expect that some Valium would be fine and you wouldn't experience the hellish cocaine wd. And it may be different than meth in worse wd, I do know that after a 3 day awake doing maybe a half gram of crank the comedown was like you said--18+ straight hours of sleep, lots of eating, and feeling blah for a few days

Yes I've had some nasty h habits. I'd take the wd of a 6 month IV coke habit over a heavy opiate habit wd any day. Not that I want either lol. I haven't shot cocaine in about 2 1/2 years and heroin in about 1 1/2. Problem for me is, as bad as an opiate habit is, I can live, sustain, and function on it. Shooting cocaine on the other hand fucks up my life every time. Because with h I do a shot and go about my day. With coke, all I want to do is redose every 15 minutes. Which means I will sit in the house doing nothing but get high. So it sends me in a very fast downward spiral. Most of my bad life consequences came from the coke, not the dope.


When I was up for 5+ days yes, as soon as a shot wore off I could pass out completely and not wake for like a day. That was when I was at utter exhaustion. When on a 1-2 day binge it was harder, I could lay down n try n sleep but my brain wouldn't shut off

If you stay away from the IV it may be ok for you. But there is always that temptation to see how it is to IV coke, once you've shot dope and are into the whole IV thing it's easy to transfer it. All it takes is reading on BL how great the rush is or how it's 100x stronger and your brain starts thinking "hmmm..." Trust me it's an entirely different drug, and you won't sustain an IV coke (or meth) habit for long...

I think I got all your questions lol if not let me know

Ahh, I see what you're saying. Thanks a lot for the detailed answers man, someone with your experiences is exactly who I was hoping to hear from. To be honest, I always knew I'd end up shooting heroin. I've heard from so many people that you haven't even really experienced heroin until you've shot it, and that is certainly true, but I admit I didn't plan on doing it until I was older, and I only ended up switching when I did because I was getting tired of spending like £30 and not even feeling that high, and because throughout my heroin habit, as I'm sure is the case with a lot of addicts, I was permanently "just about to quit", I told myself that I'd switch to the needle just to make my supply go further before I stopped for good. It's my understanding that although when you shoot coke/meth the rush is much, much better, it's not like a totally different drug like it is with H, since with H until you shoot it there is no real "rush" associated with it, whereas if I snort a lot of coke I get a rushing sensation, same with even bombing a load of base. Another difference is that I was NEVER able to responsibly use heroin - from the moment I had my first taste when I smoked it, I wanted more & more & more. In a sense I was literally an addict from the very first time I used it, psychologically I was hooked straight away, so in a sense I wrecked responsible opiate use for myself from the get-go. Coke & base on the other hand, I've never ever had a problem with. I do them on special occasions, a few times a year, and even when I have the money I don't go overboard on it, and I never want to ruin another drug for myself like I did with heroin, because once you've been hooked on a drug, I feel like for me personally, that door is closed to you, in a sense, and you can never go back to being a recreational user. I never want to shut that door for myself with cocaine or base, because I value the few times a year that I use it too much for that. To be honest, until heroin, I was a really model drug user. I absolutely adored MDMA, but I'd read so many reports of "losing the magic" that I've only let myself do it 3 times in my life, and I first tired it four years ago. Heroin was the only drug that really snagged me, you know? So I don't want to shoot stimulants...I want to save something for my deathbed, haha.

 

[manboychef]

as the consumate speedballer I would do shot of coke with H one after the other all day long.

I could not use one without the other. If you are already hooked on H and had to detox from it, your body will remember the aching beauty that is a shot of H during a comedown.

Of the two withdrawals I would say cocaine was mostly mental and only mild trembling and a little sweating.

H on the other hand was insanely mental and physical at the same time...it is fear inducing in me now when I think about the hallucinations and the desire just kill myself to make it end.

I would just steer clear bud, sometimes doors can be opened then closed, and then some get blown off the hinges.

For my deathbed I want a shot of morphine mixed with cocaine. The ultimate speedball just to kiss the dove one last time.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Ironically I switched to heroin from meth, because meth had become "unsustainable" for me as an addiction. The grass is always greener on the other side of a fucked up substance abuse habit, I suppose.

But actually after I learned to IV (and I'm a natural lol) I "re-visited" stimulants, and I will say that IV methamphetamine is...really something. If you've shot heroin I'd say there's about a 100% certainty that you'll end up mainlining meth, it's just too good to miss out on (even though the BAs of smoking and shooting are comparable) I've actually never thought that H withdrawals were that bad but then again I've never really gotten them bad, even though I smoked and shot up for a couple months straight and then stopped pretty much cold-turkey. The actual acute withdrawal phase for meth really is no big deal, about 24-48 hours of very little energy for me, but with meth it's more of a long cycle of sleep deprivation, catching up on "sleep debt", confusion, being really tired but unable to sleep, etc, combined with a physical & social decline that is far more rapid than heroin.

Then again, the very fact that heroin is so "sustainable" in the short term is something that makes it more insidious than meth, in that I don't just throw me hands up and say "fuck this drug!" Generally speaking I consider meth and heroin to be on opposite sides of one fucked up coin, though

 

[Darkist]

Depends what drug TBh, Good quality weed can help loads, but coke or stims will just make me crave heroin.

 

[electric moon]

An addict is an addict. Ive bounced from oxy to Xanax to Adderall to etizolam to gambling to alcohol. ( in no particular order ) If youre addicted to one thing, the potential to be addicted to other shit is there.

 

[Dresden]

Why not?

 

[manboychef]

An addict is an addict. Ive bounced from oxy to Xanax to Adderall to etizolam to gambling to alcohol. ( in no particular order ) If youre addicted to one thing, the potential to be addicted to other shit is there.

Why not?

the reward center of your brain becomes changed and used to instant gratification....so any activity that gives instant or near instant gratification will become habit forming.

 

[SKR]

^Yep spot on Mbc. Gamblers all have that first win that made them think gambling is a way to make money, That first shot of Meth or Heroin that made you lose your breath or lose your lunch the one you chase for all days.......that first big one, ouch.

 

[bingey]

I can use mind enhancing drug like MDMA or LSD withouty too many problems , also cannabis is fine although I tend to overdo it a little.

Npt so fine are yer traditional downers like alcohol , benzos or GHB , absolute trainwtreck status is rerserved for real, uppers like coke and speed , just drama in a bag really

 

[poloblue]

Haven't used dope in 3 yrs prolly, been smokin oil whole time & take my subs & if I have oil I'm basically completely content...hasn't thrown me into full blown addiction in the least bit....but disclaimer I was a huge pothead b4 harder drugs. Used Coke a few times this summer (1st time in 4 yrs prolly did 5 x over summer and didn't go back to dope. Then my gf broke up w/ me n I deff wanted to do dope but fought the urges for a couple months, n back to the just generally want to dope all the time feels lol. So it is possible but being one whos done it I say it's risky.