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Can MDMA permanently damage your brain?

Well combining it with Adderall definitely caused some sort of brain issues for me. There are people in psych wards who have lost their shit or become psychotic off of drugs....it's not made up.
 
socrilus said:
Not sure why you targeted me when i just pointed out an article
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Sorry bud, but I saw another "Low T" drive-by with a URL with a Dr. Name, and it screamed SPAM.

I looked at your history later and saw you seem a legit long-term member, the med is a pharm, not a supplement.
Figured you'd be back, so I didn't edit; and also I still agree with what I said.

Yes, there's probably something out there that really can be cured by opening chakras, it's just "Low-T" is this quarter's money-maker, ripping off lots of sad middle-aged men confused about what testosterone does and doesn't do. I am almost part of that demo, I'll holler once about it.

For all the rest on this site and others that is pure woo, I maybe say one thing if anything: that supplements might be sawdust anyway. Which is the truth. So don't call me out as some troll against the vita-ceutical naturo industry. I'm against and stay quiet.


You can't link a psychiatric or personality disorder to testosterone without considering the half the population with much lower levels, and children with lower levels, and not consider teenagers who would be . . . the least socially anxious out there? Thirteen year-old boys oozing testosterone out their pores, growing hair and stink-pits all over? Not exactly models of social grace.

Women may be from Venus, but their brains are the same as ours when it comes to things like basic human emotions, therapy rates for anxiety. If the subtle differences in spatial navigation or breadth of conversational attention between men and women is totally insensitive to effects of testosterone, how could you expect it to matter with men of very different life experience?

Testosterone is important to get your balls to drop, gain muscle mass, lower your voice . . . and then you just slowly lose your hair and any tumors in your prostate drink it and grow. Marketers go for the "Testosterone is what makes me a MAN. It's penis in steroid form! Kids kick sand at me on the beach, I'll send for these pills!" When really, they're probably better off with slowly decreasing levels. They'll be calmer, for one thing, and LIVE LONGER, without the cardio issues.

You're right, you need to keep some circulating to make functional jizz, and otherwise be vaguely mannish. If you have an actual physiological disorder, like cancer and they remove your testicles, you probably need it. No one else does. "Low-T" is not an actual medical problem, at least not like the commercials describe. Anti-depressants or a gym membership or a single good fuck would save these guys a lot of money.
 
I dont think I said anywhere it was a supplement I just pointed out an article linking MDMA and T levels. Plus, T wasnt the only hormone discussed in that article I linked either. It was an article talking about the impacts of MDMA on the hypothalamus, which governs a lot more than T.

You are totally wrong if I said "oh just pin yourself with roids" bc I never said that nor did I mention any supplement or medication....

That article was just to support that in the case study given, the MDMA abuse did affect things and that the person in that case study got better once he got on the right treatment and reversed the 'LTC'. Granted that he did not have any HPPD but just the mental stuff.
 
BlueBull said:
someone that is very close to me had a very very bad experience with spacecake about a year ago. It was pretty intense. She has been suffering from about 75% of the symptoms you commonly see on this forum as MDMA side-effects: severe derealization, panic attacks, tremors, brain fog, pins & needles, heart palpitations, flashbacks, mood swings, severe anxiety, visual distortions, hyper-awareness, in the beginning even brain zaps...
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A great piece of evidence that the "LTC" syndromes aren't due to the typical substituted amphetamine/MDMA serotonin neurotoxicity is this - people get these LTC syndromes from a wide range of drugs that will not produce serotonin neurotoxicity like MDMA et cetera.

Unfortunately I think that when it happens with ecstasy (the serotonin neurotoxin!!!) people feel more hopeless and trapped and the rumination slows down recovery, compared to depersonalization from "natural" weed (incidentally I've had a friend have depersonalization from weed for many months as well).

I should add to this discussion though that I do believe there is a "boy who cried wolf" component to this "LTC" phenomenon.

There are many people who do genuinely just have anxiety/OCD and report back a few months later saying "it was all in my head", but I'm not convinced that there isn't something going on in some percentage of the LTC people. It certainly doesn't have to be drug induced neurotoxicity though. People also develop similar syndromes, including HPPD symptoms, without having ever touched drugs.
 
BlueBull said:
I am not saying that there is no permanent symptoms or that there can be no permanent side-effects. I am saying that, given the current data, brain damage is highly unlikely. Consider that there are a vast number of other more likely explanations for the side-effects you see in people. If you're interested read a bit of research and form your own opinion. I am more debating what you are saying because you provide no basis other than personal experience for your claims than because I disagree with them

If we are talking from personal experience anyways, I'll tell you this: someone that is very close to me had a very very bad experience with spacecake about a year ago. It was pretty intense. She has been suffering from about 75% of the symptoms you commonly see on this forum as MDMA side-effects: severe derealization, panic attacks, tremors, brain fog, pins & needles, heart palpitations, flashbacks, mood swings, severe anxiety, visual distortions, hyper-awareness, in the beginning even brain zaps... She has been having these symptoms for a year, which is long enough for members on here to say "I think this is going to be permanent". So should I, based on that, say that weed is probably neurotoxic? No, the weed triggered a dormant panic disorder which is giving her all these symptoms. She has had these for about a year now and only recently is showing signs of improvement. But still there is no part of me that thinks "damn, she probably fried her brain". The mind is a very powerful thing and will fuck you up physically when it is in serious distress. The reason she is now showing signs of improvement? She has accepted that it is all a product of her mind and that it is not permanent. Instantly, improvement.

Brain damage does not heal, the damage really is permanent, yet so many people on here that supposedly fried their brain report feeling better with time and because of them getting on with their lives, worrying less about it. I'm not saying every case is like this but I am saying that a lot of them are. And I'm also saying that going around telling people that, without any basis, MDMA can cause brain damage, will make people start worrying, which is exactly what is causing their symptoms in the first place, worrying and panic
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Did she have any HPPD symptoms?
 
Thanks for all the responses everyone, I really do appreciate it. So what I've gathered from reading all of them is that there really is no way to tell whether or not damage has been done, am I correct?
 
Also i would really like to try mdma at some point in my life again, would ONE more use possibly cause more damage? Even if used at a responsible dose?
 
ADubbs said:
Did she have any HPPD symptoms?
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She had minor visual distortions in the beginning, like seeing a stopped train moving in the corner of her eye or patterns that were really there that stood out more than they normally should. That passed after a month or two luckily. Other symptoms held on for much longer, the visual distortions were the first thing to go
 
Nucci37 said:
there really is no way to tell whether or not damage has been done
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If you had brain damage, people would notice, when you couldn't walk straight or speak or breathe. If you had damage so subtle people didn't notice, it's probably reversible. Even stroke victims (real brain damage) recover to some extent.

And if you did have brain damage, there's nothing to be done anyway. Accept that you knew the risks, had a great time, and move on.

BUT: You're fine, another roll won't hurt you, this anxiety is normal but you just have a focus now: the summer you did a lot of drugs (we ALL have that anxiety). We ALL feel socially anxious at times. Your testosterone is also fine.


(And apparently I have HPPD too--but I firmly believe it's just seeing what was always there, not damage.)
 
Unfortunately I found out about the risks after I had already abused M. I would just like to know if I have damage or not so I could accept it, I dont wanna just be hoping my whole life, I need to know.
 
Nucci37 you probably do have permanent damage but it's not very significant, perhaps so tiny that you'll never notice it. The anxiety you feel after a bad trip can last a long time but it's reversible. I felt suicidal during my hangover from an mdma overdose but I got thru it and feel perfectly normal now.
 
My point was you do not have brain damage.

You kill more brain cells from getting hot dancing at a rave than you do from any drugs you take there.

You have some lingering anxiety, and it's focusing/obsessing on the drugs, which is all normal and will pass soon enough.
 
Scrofula said:
My point was you do not have brain damage.

You kill more brain cells from getting hot dancing at a rave than you do from any drugs you take there.

You have some lingering anxiety, and it's focusing/obsessing on the drugs, which is all normal and will pass soon enough.
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I think if an LTC was from poly drug use, it has a greater chance for being damage.

And some people have permanent HPPD from drugs.....or ended up in psych wards due to psychosis.....so I'd say these things are brain damage....even if the signs don't appear on any medical scans or analysis
 
ADubbs said:
And some people have permanent HPPD from drugs.....or ended up in psych wards due to psychosis.....so I'd say these things are brain damage....even if the signs don't appear on any medical scans or analysis
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So you're saying that brain damage is the sort of thing people notice, right? Yeah, so was I.

But social anxiety doesn't put you in the psych ward with psychosis, and is something half the people on this board experience every damn day, since they became conscious, no drugs required, no drugs to help.

Of course you can have brain damage that doesn't appear on a CT scan or MRI. You can't see schizophrenia on a scan either.
But having anxiety about past behavior is called "living".



And we don't know if HPPD is even a thing (used to just call it "trails" or "flashbacks"; they didn't call it HPPD, but it was a huge part of the propaganda when I was young. If you want some fun, go check out "The Outsiders" sometime and see its portrayal of drug use. Why yes, an overdose on LSD, which comes in gel caps apparently, will give you a bad trip that leaves you with permanent brain damage, in a psych ward . . . in this movie).

If it is a thing, I should be getting disability payments, since I've seen trails since I first ate mushrooms twenty years ago. I'm pretty sure they were always there, and now I just "see" them.

If MDMA damages neurons, they die. But the nice thing is, new connections and even new cells adapt to that. Same as when you just bang your head.
 
An LTC is a stupid term that people have invented on the forum to describe a number of conditions caused by MDMA/drugs and stands for 'Long term comedown'.

Instead of people saying ive got HPPD, Depersonilisation or depression as a result of ecstasy use, people say theyve got an LTC, which in my opinion is a little bit silly seeing as its not a recongised or real condition.
 
@marainnn Oh, thanks. Well, "long-term comedown" is a start. So you're saying there's some controversy on this site about all the brain damage the kids think they have?

Personally, I love that no one so far is concerned about the massive die-off in brain cells they had from minor hyperthermia dancing in the clubs.
 
I agree, MDMA doesn't cause social anxiety... I'm just saying it can cause long term negative issues in the brain... It's been proven time and time again. I for one, have no mental issues now really (except for sleep anxiety), but I do have lots of visual issues and Tinnitus.
 
Yeah, and I picked up tinnitus in my left ear about a year ago. Woke up with it, hasn't gone away since. Definitely no amphetamine- or phenethylamine-derivatives at any point.

I'm not saying these drugs are NOT neurotoxic. I think they CAN cause behavioral changes that people around don't care for.

BUT, saying some users wind up in psych wards and some develop unusual perception issues, well that's true for any activity. I developed an unusual perception issue while sleeping. I've also woken up in a psych ward.

THey're anecdotes, not evidence. I bet evidence exists to support your claims, though, just maybe not enough to meet statistical power.
 
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