Opioids Can it be done? Quitting opiods with just Tramadol..

[ColoradoBoy90]

So I took 60-80mg of Oxycodone daily. TODAY, I took 10mg Oxycodone in morning and then went to Tramadol ONLY. 400-500mg a day. No tapering down on the Oxy, just straight over to Tramadol...I'm shocked how much Tramadol has been helping the withdrawals.Now I do have some "back up help" if things get too rough. I have 10mg oxycodone IR, but enough for only 1 per day, along with a 15mg Oxy ER, enough for 1 per day -- for about 2 weeks.
So far, today, I have been feeling pretty good and laughing at some things uncontrollably almost. I'm guessing that's the extra serotonin, I've always been low on it. But I still feel minor withdrawals -- mainly chills, and headache. Luckily nothing else, really, but tonight I know i won't sleep without a 10mg Oxy...

SO QUESTION? How long should I take Tramadol for? My goal is to get OFF opiates/opiods entirely. But I'm also clinically depressed, and these opiates have messed up my serotonin, Norepinephrine, and dopamine levels big time.......So should I just keep taking the Tramadol long term? I hear it works great for anxiety, OCD, and depression. I hear it's very similar to Effexor. Also, on the drugs website there is reviews for all drugs -- Tramadol got 9.2/10 stars for depression/OCD/etc, it got the highest rating of any drug for depression. So kinda interesting...

Or should I take it for 10 days (how long the average opiod withdrawal last) then get off the Tramadol? I have Prozac I can take for depression along with Remeron once I get off Tramadol... OR?? Ideas??I am prescribed the max dosage of Tramadol, 400mg, all in 50mg tabs. What is the BEST way for me to dose?? I hear taking Tramadol then taking another Tramadol, and then another Tramadol -- each time you take more it INCREASES bioavailability? Is this true? Also just any tips on general to help me?
Remember: I went cold turkey from 60-80mg oxy over to just Tramadol.... And before anyone says "your not on a high dose, that's. not much Oxy...." I used to be on 40mg of Hydrmorphone daily which is equal to 160mg of hydro daily roughly (not counting ER meds, so technically equal to like 250mg of Vicodin daily) over the course of my 5 years on them. I've been on Opana, Vicodin, Oxy, etc, so my 60-80mg Oxy is the lowest I've been on but my body is still very VERY addicted. I normally would go into major WD if I didn't dose Oxy every 2 hours. So I'm shocked the tramadol is stopping the withdrawal, besides a few things. Today I plan on taking 450mg of Tramadol (one extra tab) and 30mg Oxycodone. (20mg ER and 10mg IR). Any tapering ideas would be great.

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

I thought Tramadol was an SNRI and an opioid? So it helps reuptake them? Thought it would help balance them out some... similar to Effexor?

I would try Kratom, but I thought it was banned. Unless that changed. I also don't know any legit websites, and I know people can post sites here so that sucks.

 

[spacejunk]

be very careful high-dosing tramadol - over 400 mg daily and you're risking seizures (which, trust me, you do not want to experience).

sure, you can come off oxy by using tramadol,but is it the best option? probably not, IMO.
i mean, you'll still have to kick it. it could just prolong the whole experience and make it much more prone to weird side-effects like brain-zaps which are associated with coming off certainly anti-depressants (like effexor)

i suspect you're also going to be tempted to exceed safe dosages of tramadol, as it doesn't last very long, and it's hard to make wise decisions when you're dopesick off the oxy.
i suspect that if you become addicted to tramadol, you'll probably have a really uncomfortable withdrawal experience.

i mean, opiate/opioid WDs are anxiety and depression inducing enough, but the SNRI properties may make it even more of an emotional rollercoaster than straight-up oxy WDs.

is an oxycontin taper an option at this stage?
in my opinion it would be a better option for you, especially as you have depression and anxiety issues..

any help from the short term only and may only make jumping off more difficult.
withdrawal will make you depressed and anxious - and withdrawing off tramadol will, i suspect, make you even more so - not less.

if you can possibly taper with a small amount of buprenorphine (ie suboxone) and taper it rapidly over a week or two, this would be a much better option (in my experience and that of many others - try searching bluelight for "bupe rapid taper" - it's pretty amazing.

some people report good results using kratom to kick, but i've never tried it.

honestly, you're better off tapering and using comfort meds (clonidine, lyrica, loperamide, etc etc etc) and hot baths etc to get through the worst of WDs than replacing your drug of choice with another opioid.
especially tramadol - i wouldn't want to know what the acute withdrawal from that stuff is like. and be very mindful of the seizure risk - that is not something to be taken lightly.

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

Thanks for the reply but no, tapering isn't really an option.

I have like 15 tablets of 10mg oxycodone and 15 tablets of 20mg OxyContin ER. So I don't have enough to taper unless I used them all in like a 3 day period...

Also, today is day #2 or over 48 hours on just Tramadol. So far no increased anxiety or depression. In fact I feel mentally "a little better". Maybe it's the Tramadol? After I take Tramadol I do feel it's serotonin action. I used to get Eurphioa off Prozac (I've always been low on serotonin, and any serotonin acting drug would make me happier/etc), so maybe the serotonin action of Tramadol is what's keeping me "okay"?

Also, I am prescribed nearly 20mg a day of Clonzepam... So I assume as long as I'm on Clonzepam, an anti seizure med, it would be pretty darn hard for me to get a seziure from Tramadol? I'm not sure that's why I'm asking. But I'm on such a high dosage of clonzepam I just assumed it would allow me to take higher dosages. Most people take 0.5mg to 1mg Clonzepam daily, I can pop 10 (T E N) 2mg Clonzepam tablets all at ONCE and barely feel tired.

I also have read many stories of using Prozac to get off SSRI type meds, and have done it myself, so I assume that would help getting off the Tramadol easier once I tamper down. I dunno. I'm not really sure what I'm doing here, I just made a decision suddenly "no more feeling like a zombie, I'm done with Oxy/etc" and Tramadol was my only option, so I took it..

 

[spacejunk]

benzos will protect somewhat from seizure activity, but i think it would be dangerous to assume it will totally negate the risk.

honestly, if you're out of oxy, you're going to have to kick sooner or later, and replacing your DOC with another opioid can be counter-productive - there are a lot of variables.
the main thing to be concerned about, in my experience, is not whether or not you feel better "now" (before kicking) but how reduced your WD symptoms are when you do jump off.

tapering over 3 days isn't really unheard of - frankly, any dose reduction you can do prior to discontinuing use should decrease the dicomfort of kicking somewhat.

one approach worth considering is just taking the oxy (or whatever opiate/opioid you end up taking) to help you get to sleep at night while you're kicking.
for lots of opiate users, the days - or even weeks - without sleep can be the most excruciating part of detoxing. if you swaet it out in the day and take a small dose to help you sleep at night, you're not only doing an aggressive taper, but you get at least some sleep - which can make all the difference when it comes to sticking with your plan to quit (or not).

just remember that tapering should just keep you "well" enough to get by 0- chasing a high is counterproductive.

all the best man

 

[OntarioGuy]

I don't get why people are so shocked that a decent dose of tramadol will alleviate withdrawal symptoms. It is an opioid after all, and a uniquely euphoric on imo due to some of the non opioid effects as well.

I've said it before on here, but I recall being in horrendous withdrawal and I found some old 200 mg Ultrams (ER Tramadol) at a friends. I was Injecting probably 300-400 mgs of morphine per day at the time, not a lot, but not a little either. Anyways I went home and dropped 2 tablets, 400 mgs in maybe 100 mls of 7-UP to let it soak and become IR by morning. Being sick at the time I
Chewed up 3 tablets (I know seizure risk, but I took 1 mg of Ativan as a precaution) I washed it down with soda. Not only did I experience immense relief, i had a very good stimulating happy opioid buzz. It felt like methadone or OxyCodone, Stimulating and Serotogenic. It also provided relief into the next day, when I picked up my morphine Rx I didn't dose because I still felt great, then that night I drank the soda with 400 mgs in it and again felt great with no symptoms of withdrawal and a decent high.

Sorry to ramble on and on...to answer u, ya u could use tramadol to taper, but ur still gonna be fully dependent on opioids, and may even have a harder withdrawal to overcome if u take it long enough to develop a dependence to its SNRI properties

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

You're right, the anxiety does get worse (day 3). But it could be because on the SAME DAY I decided to quit Oxy, I find out I'm getting a divorce, and my best friend died...And I soon will have no place to live =| So, I dunno, maybe it's environmental, but WHY does everything have to happen right when I decide to try to quit Oxy!?

I've been taking the Oxy mostly at bed for sleep. Oddly, I've been sleeping 14-16 hours a night (day 3). Maybe it's cause I don't have anything worth waking up for anymore......
I thought I would have major trouble sleeping as normally I would if I didn't take a minimum of 20mg IR Oxy before bed + 10-20mg Oxy ER.

My doctor also prescribed me 10mg of Prozac, and said to take it in the morning... I said but what about the Tramadol? He said it's fine to take them both. =| I dunno, but it seems like that would increase my chance for seizures, no? Unless I take 5mg Prozac, maybe a small dose will be okay. In studies 5mg of Prozac was shown to be a perfect dose, without all the side effects.
Maybe it will help the depression and anxiety? Like I said before Prozac worked really well for me before, and fast (a few days). Or is it a bad time to take it during WD?
This truly is too much all happening at once =\

 

[CousinCocaine]

Sorry didn't read all the posts so I apologize in advance for repeating any info that's already been stated. I had a oxycodone habit awhile back not quite as high a dosage as you (but I mixed it with temazepam, Klonopin or Valium, DPH or promethazine and sometimes even alcohol so my 1 40mg dose at a time would be so strong I could barely even talk. Yeah I know I was a dumbass for mixing so many CNS depressants back then). I quit with almost no discomfort at all using only codeine (promethazine codeine syrup specifically) which I know as far as analgesia goes is equivalent to tramadol and they both feel the same to me except codeine is more relaxing. So yes I would assume it can be done with tramadol alone, but here's the thing about tramadol tho, the withdrawals from it can include symptoms of both mild opiate along with strong antidepressant (SNRI if I'm not mistaken) withdrawal which can actually be a lot worse than you'd think an opioid that weak would cause. My advice would be if you use the tramadol don't take it anymore than you have to but honestly if I were you I'd get some Tylenol #3s, Cherratussin AC or promethazine - codeine syrup (commonly refered to as lean) I say those because they're the easiest to find on the street or get a script for but if you find pure codeine phosphate pills that'd be even better. The codeine should be a breeze to get off of as long as you just take what you need and no more, I honestly didn't even notice when I stopped it. Mixing it with a small dose of diphenhydramine 25-50mg (Benadryl) or another first gen antihistamine will make it work a lot better. Good luck!

 

[CousinCocaine]

How is it going? Did you switch to codeine or stick with tramadol? I'd honestly like to hear an update.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Using Opioids to quit Opioids is often a more difficult errand than people expect. I've had to go through the cycle a couple of dozen times in my life and have ultimately found that the most effective method for myself has been to completely cut the Opioids out in favor of "comfort medications" like Gabapentinoids, Clonidine or maybe the occasionaly Benzodiazepine. We all need to bear in mind that the dependence cycle with Opiods and most other drugs does not follow a linear pattern.

What I mean by this is that introducing Opioids into your system can disproportionately set back your withdrawal course.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Using Opioids to quit Opioids is often a more difficult errand than people expect. I've had to go through the cycle a couple of dozen times in my life and have ultimately found that the most effective method for myself has been to completely cut the Opioids out in favor of "comfort medications" like Gabapentinoids, Clonidine or maybe the occasionaly Benzodiazepine. We all need to bear in mind that the dependence cycle with Opiods and most other drugs does not follow a linear pattern.

What I mean by this is that introducing Opioids into your system can disproportionately set back your withdrawal course.

I'd agree. Though it can be beneficial for some with high tolerances to strong opioids to switch to a weaker opioid like tramadol or codeine for a few days before jumping. It can lessen the shock and may be easier instead of trying to stabilize on a lower dose of whatever strong opioid they are currently using for a few days before jumping.

Though if one is going to switch to tramadol before jumping I'd highly recommend using it for only a couple of days. The suppose SNRI withdrawals of tramadol can be nasty on top of regular opioid withdrawal. From my own experience I'd agree tramadol withdrawal can be especially nasty.

 

[OntarioGuy]

I kind of agree with William Burroughs when he says the number one rule of a detox is the addict must have at least some morphine (or any other opioid)

I think ultimately there's 4 groups of us addicts, ones who withdrawal cold turkey and get off, those who stay on IV opioids indefinitely (sometimes with periods of sobriety and relapse), those who taper down with another opioid, and those of us who remain on some form of opioid maintenance indefinitely.

From what I have seen in my life, it's the people who taper who seem to do the best, IF, they are able to successfully complete the taper that is.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I kind of agree with William Burroughs when he says the number one rule of a detox is the addict must have at least some morphine (or any other opioid)

I think ultimately there's 4 groups of us addicts, ones who withdrawal cold turkey and get off, those who stay on IV opioids indefinitely (sometimes with periods of sobriety and relapse), those who taper down with another opioid, and those of us who remain on some form of opioid maintenance indefinitely.

From what I have seen in my life, it's the people who taper who seem to do the best, IF, they are able to successfully complete the taper that is.

The times I tapered slowly down before stopping were the times I had the longest most successful clean periods. The few times I stopped cold turkey resulted in relapses that occured much sooner.

For me, as I slowly taper down I also slowly build up my ability to cope with life without drugs. When I jump off cold turkey I feel like I never quite get myself back upright.

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

New question now on what I should do...

2 weeks ago I went from a 60-80mg a day of oxycodone and switched over to 400mg daily of Tramadol. Problem? I'm not sure if this is a good way to try to quit, and I'm worried about taking Tramadol for too long. I hear the WD can be worse, as you go through opiod WD and antidepressant WD.
Another problem? Unfortunately 400mg
Tramadol isn't enough to keep the WD away (now at 2 weeks I have cold feeling/or chills and coughing WD, WD still will come in full force). So I am given also 20mg oxy and 10mg oxycodone IR. I take them both at bed.

SO.. What should I do? My goal is to get off these painkillers. My options right now are:
1.) Just keep taking the Tramadol only and slowly take less and less Oxycodone each day. Then do the same with Tramadol and lowly cut down? BUT.. On the 2 weeks I have been on 400mg Tramadol? I have less mood swings. Normally I would feel like shit mentally until I took hydro/Oxy/whatever. On the Tramadol I don't seem to have that problem. I also feel more confident, way less OCD -- all signs of me having low serotonin and the Tramadol working as an antidepressant.. But I still worry if Tramadol can be used for long term depression.. Which I have depression, and it sucks that Tramadol works better than any SSRI or SNRI and you can "feel" your serotonin actually boosted.

2.) Go back to doctor and go back to either hydro or oxycodone. THEN... I can try to tamper from the hydro or Oxy slowly? I then would stop taking Tramadol. Unless me
Being on Tramadol for 2 weeks at max
Dosage means I need to wean off Tramadol?

Which would be a better idea? Or do I have other options? I prefer not to have subs on my record so yeah trying to avoid that.

 

[keeping]

I kind of agree with William Burroughs when he says the number one rule of a detox is the addict must have at least some morphine (or any other opioid.

he also built an orgone accumulator in his back garden...
ha but yeah i agree - if you have access to i would highly recommend a short subutex taper.
taper mind you, not maintenance, cause when you're hooked on subs then tapers will be pure hell

p.s.: Burrough's never truly detoxed - he was on a form of methadone program at the end of his life
RIP you beautiful bastard

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

Does anyone know for my new question above ^^^ or my post below explains it maybe a little better:

I mean Tramadol has completely cured my ummm... pre-mature ejecul.. you know. It got so bad sometimes only 15 seconds or less! No control at all.

Now it's the opposite. It takes like 30 mins or longer..

So I know I NEED serotonin, as my mood has improved from Tramadol antidepressant effects, OCD greatly reduced, PE gone, more confident -- all signs of serotonin being low, and now balanced due to the Tramadol. The problem is if Tramadol release + reuptakes serotonin I don't think that is good for long term use... Some argue it releases serotonin while also reuptake the it. On Drug reviews website, of ALL the meds for depression Tramadol got the highest score for depression and OCD -- 9.3 out of 10, beating all SSRI's and SNRI's and Wellbutrin, which those average 6 out of 10 stars. So I don't know why, but Tramadol really works wonders for depression...
Maybe it releases serotonin and reuptakes it also (some argue that).

Someone earlier in this thread said it would WORSEN my chemical imbalance. How/why? It seems to be doing okay.

But still... is Tramadol okay for long term depression or should I go back to Oxy, slow taper off it and use Prozac to increase my serotonin (I NEED serotonin, so badly that the first time I took Tramadol I felt the serotonin rush and was happier, confident, laughing again, etc. None of it was from the weak opiod effects as I was on Oxy before). The first time I took Prozac I got actual euphoria cause my brain was that low on serotonin. When I added 50mg 5HTP with the Prozac I got another euphoria rush and my depression disappeared and I felt much better.
Problem is Prozac doesn't work as good as before, and doesn't effect NE, which I think is the only reason I have any energy at all right now.

So I could stop taking Tramadol, and go back to Oxy only (I already take 30mg a day of Oxy + 400mg Tramadol. I would simply switch to 60mg Oxy a day, with no tramadol). Then I do a slow taper off Oxy. But what do I do to address my serotonin problem? Take Prozac? Or take Effexor ER? I hear if you miss one dose by even an hour you get brain zaps, doesn't sound fun. But Effexor ER is basically Tramadol, without the opiod effects. At least from what I hear. But WD is horrible, too, but Tramadol WD worse of course.

 

[Keif' Richards]

he also built an orgone accumulator in his back garden...
ha but yeah i agree - if you have access to i would highly recommend a short subutex taper.
taper mind you, not maintenance, cause when you're hooked on subs then tapers will be pure hell

p.s.: Burrough's never truly detoxed - he was on a form of methadone program at the end of his life
RIP you beautiful bastard

Hahaha, true fans of Burroughs like to gloss over the fact that he built an "Orgone Accumulator" in his backyard. It's not a flattering thing.

 

[OntarioGuy]

^^^^Burroughs definitely meant well, but he was very wrong about some things lol.

To the OP:

If ur worried about tramadol a unique withdrawal syndrome, and u have access to oxycodone like u said and are able to fully switch back And taper off the oxy alone, as u also said, I'd do it. Why add an antidepressant dependency to the mix just taper off the Oxy I say.
or switch to a less potent opioid like hydrocodone or codeine to taper. Perhaps Kratom would help, or even possibly a taper with low dose buprenorphine

 

[HezzaD]

people can quit cold turkey so tramadol will help with the sickness and mood mainly.
its the weakest opiate but a very strong and instant anti depressant.
i took 40tramadol 60mg oxycodone 40mg diazepam and 300ml of vodka 40percent and was fine,but some people can have seizure off 8 tablets seperate a day so be careful, its best to stagger the doses with tramadol to get more opiate effects.
I would start off 100mg in morning then 50mg half hour later, same again in afternoon then 50mg in evening half hour later 50mg thats 400 a day.
then every 3 days cut down 50mg.

I took those massive amount as I was made homeless and wanted to die.

 

[Shaleh]

Tramadol took away 85% of my withdrawal symptoms from pills prior to my heroin addiction. I dosed twice daily like I do because I have a high metabolism. Believe it or not, Tramadol also gave me energy and put me in a great mood....I was social, cleaned house, etc.

That's just my case, not for everyone.

Don't use trams long term. As someone else mentioned, it will mess with that area of your brain. Use it more of a tool to cope with withdrawal symptoms for CT.