Opioids Can I take a benzo for the last steps of my suboxone taper?

[angelomorgano]

Hi, thanks for getting back to me. I can relate that going to zero is hard , It wasn't really on methadone, but on suboxone a lot harder
I found this app to calculate the half life of substances. If I set the half life to 24 (bupe) and add all my dosages, then I should have 0.126mg remaining in my system, which is equal to 0.2 * 22 * 30% (sublingual bioavailability). So that is equavalent to 0.95mg of heroin or oxy if my calculations are correct lol .

Clonidine can definitely wipe people out and I apologize if I encouraged a dose that was too high for you. Clonidine helps, but it can make you feel sluggish. Try different doses and find out what's best for you.

No worries about that! I took 0.750 before bed, and slept 6 hours but feel relatively good although low on energy. The shortest night so far, probably because suboxone is almost gone and deepest darkest moment is yet to come .

I just took some Jetpack Kratom 80% instead of a low dose suboxone. I had that Kratom laying around and it might give me a small push in the right direction. I'm now 40minutes in, and I feel a bit elevated! So kratom works (first time I use this), but I am only going to use this in emergencies. Hopefully it does not extend the process of WD to much.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

You don't want to swap that sub dependency for a benzo dependency. Even worse you fail now you have 2. Happened to us all.

I would say yes, only in a medical setting where you cannot control your own.

The fact you are an opiate addict means benzos will hook into you instantly. 3 days and you will feel a withdrawal. I would stay away. Those things are nasty to get off. Dont listen to people that say they are on benzos and fine. Lock them in a room for 3 days and lets see how fine you are....if you are alive.

 

[angelomorgano]

You don't want to swap that sub dependency for a benzo dependency. Even worse you fail now you have 2. Happened to us all.

I would say yes, only in a medical setting where you cannot control your own.

The fact you are an opiate addict means benzos will hook into you instantly. 3 days and you will feel a withdrawal. I would stay away. Those things are nasty to get off. Dont listen to people that say they are on benzos and fine. Lock them in a room for 3 days and lets see how fine you are....if you are alive.

I have had benzo's for say 8 years around and they never really got to me anyway. I've tried Klonopin and Xanax but neither did much good, so I haven't taken them anymore. This is the second day of no suboxone, feel more energetic than yesterday, but I did take some Kratom. Kratom worked well in the beginning of the day but not at the end. Wonder how tomorrow is going to be.

I'll be extra careful.

 

[Goodland36600]

Yes benzodiazepines are often used to help withdraw from opiates. You need to use one with a long half life such as Valium or Klonopin however you MUST be extremely careful not to trade one addition in fir another one, trust me Benzodiazepine withdrawal is far worse than opiate withdrawal and lasts a hell of a lot longer. Never take benzodiazepines for longer than a month as that’s all it takes for your body to become dependent...

I developed a dependency on Xanax myself, originally prescribed by my Doctor for severe anxiety. With benzodiazepines the body becomes dependent on them very quickly, it only takes about a month of continuous use before you are dependent. Like yourself I had been using Xanax continually for around three years and I made the huge mistake of quitting cold turkey which led to me having multiple seizures and hospital visits (in my defence I was very young and naive) in my opinion Xanax is by far the worst benzo out there as it has such a short half life and is by far one of the strongest. I had to taper of slowly over the course of a few months. I’m not going to sugar coat it, it was hell on earth! When tapering of benzodiazepines you need to use one with a long half life, diazepam/Valium or even Klonopin/Clonazepam is best for this. I would also strongly advice getting some cannabis just to take the edge of, also cannabis is great for preventing seizures. Benzodiazepines are probably one of the hardest drugs to withdraw from but it’s so worth it! I hope I have helped in some way and please feel free to message me for any advice I have a lot of experience in helping people withdraw from benzodiazepines. P.s. this is not something you can do on your own it’s best to find an outpatient rehab or even a family member to hold on to your medications.

 

[angelomorgano]

Yes benzodiazepines are often used to help withdraw from opiates. You need to use one with a long half life such as Valium or Klonopin however you MUST be extremely careful not to trade one addition in fir another one, trust me Benzodiazepine withdrawal is far worse than opiate withdrawal and lasts a hell of a lot longer. Never take benzodiazepines for longer than a month as that’s all it takes for your body to become dependent...

I developed a dependency on Xanax myself, originally prescribed by my Doctor for severe anxiety. With benzodiazepines the body becomes dependent on them very quickly, it only takes about a month of continuous use before you are dependent. Like yourself I had been using Xanax continually for around three years and I made the huge mistake of quitting cold turkey which led to me having multiple seizures and hospital visits (in my defence I was very young and naive) in my opinion Xanax is by far the worst benzo out there as it has such a short half life and is by far one of the strongest. I had to taper of slowly over the course of a few months. I’m not going to sugar coat it, it was hell on earth! When tapering of benzodiazepines you need to use one with a long half life, diazepam/Valium or even Klonopin/Clonazepam is best for this. I would also strongly advice getting some cannabis just to take the edge of, also cannabis is great for preventing seizures. Benzodiazepines are probably one of the hardest drugs to withdraw from but it’s so worth it! I hope I have helped in some way and please feel free to message me for any advice I have a lot of experience in helping people withdraw from benzodiazepines. P.s. this is not something you can do on your own it’s best to find an outpatient rehab or even a family member to hold on to your medications.

Yeah I realize you do not want to have an additional dependency. I also never really understood how benzo's help with WD. Whenever I take them I just feel sluggish + WD instead of only WD. It hardly takes any of the suffering away. Maybe my dose is too low.

I indeed gave the meds that I don't "trust" myself away for safekeeping . Although if I set my mind to it, I can make myself NOT to take them. But better safe than sorry. I will look into a rehab facility but I want it to be off-record, and I don't think they do that

 

[angelomorgano]

Hi, @Keif' Richards i tried to send you a private message, but it didn't work somehow. Sorry for bothering you directly with questions.

I wonder if you have any knowledge of Naltrexone. I have 3 50mg tabs and I want to use it after 14 without suboxone. I posted a question, but no reactions in a couple of days and received the pills today. https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...0mg-naltrexone-after-a-suboxone-taper.892020/

I'm now 5 days without suboxone and used kratom 3 days for some energy to do work instead of small doses suboxone. My guess was that kratom would be better for emergies than a low dose suboxone? Anyway, I will end the kratom as well.

Cheers!

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey angel! I'm sorry you weren't able to message me. I dont know what's up with that. Anyway...

What you're doing with the Naltrexone is kind of an unorthodox way of detoxing from Opioids, but if this is your choice, I'm gonna do my best to advise you. Keep in mind, some people take Naltrexone on a chronic basis to block the effects of Opioids.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're counting on the Naltrexone to finish "cleaning you out" completely after several days of abstinence?

I don't have personal experience, but I know Naltrexone and what it is used for. You need to be very careful, as it can put you into immediate and long-lasting withdrawal if taken too early.

I would suggest being completely Opioid free, including the Kratom (Mitragynine), for 5 days. This is pretty conservative, but I would hate for you to experience Precipitated Withdrawal.

Once you think you are ready and sufficiently free of Opioids, start by taking small, minuscule doses of the Naltrexone. Do not start by taking an entire 50mg. Take those small doses and wait ~30 mins. See if you feel fine or if you have symptoms of withdrawal.

If after taking the small dose, you do feel sick, I would wait 12-24hrs before taking more. If you dont feel sick, you can proceed to take the other doses of Naltrexone. Still be careful as you continue, trying to avoid Precipitatex Withdrawal.

After you've finished the Naltrexone, you should be good to go, however, post-acute withdrawal syndrome or PAWS is a significant possibility. If you find yourself struggling with those PAWS symptoms we can advise you on how to treat those. Keep us updated!

 

[Keif' Richards]

I just have to say, taking Naltrexone at all during the withdrawal process if not a good idea. It won't really be worth the trouble and anxiety related to proper dosing time etc.

In the end, I would say yes, you can use a few Benzodiazepines if you really feel they will help. As others have said correctly, Benzodiazepines are addictive and the dependency can be very troublesome. So, we definitely would only advise using them for a few days at most and not with any other CNS depressants, Kratom included.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

Be careful with that Naltrexone. I have read about what you are trying to do.

My only experience with it was some time back, was about 5 months off methadone. Used once and fell out. Got hit with narcan and woke right up. Was not in withdrawal but felt extremely odd for the next week or so. Almost like my soul was sucked out. Was so weak. Until I used again. That completely fucked up my kick since was feeling much better before that narcan got in me. So even after 5 months there was probably methadone lingering around in me. Ended back on methadone of course.

Good luck. And grats for getting off the subs.

 

[angelomorgano]

Indeed it is not meant to reduce withdrawal symptoms. It's just to get rid of the opiates so my body can rebalance faster

Thanks. I will then definitely wait a longer time before I take it in low doses, or if I feel generally really good, then I might not take it. I'll post an update here on what I ended up doing.

Almost like my soul was sucked out.

can relate to that feeling, that's how I felt teh first couple of days off sub, but it's slowly getting better. Went for a run today with 2G of kratom and a large cup of coffee and felt amazingly good. So I hope the worst is behind.

Ended back on methadone of course.

It sucks that opoids are so hard to just use occasionally... But I guess if you can live with it normally, it's not "that" big of a problem.

 

[angelomorgano]

I just have to say, taking Naltrexone at all during the withdrawal process if not a good idea. It won't really be worth the trouble and anxiety related to proper dosing time etc.

In the end, I would say yes, you can use a few Benzodiazepines if you really feel they will help. As others have said correctly, Benzodiazepines are addictive and the dependency can be very troublesome. So, we definitely would only advise using them for a few days at most and not with any other CNS depressants, Kratom included.

Yeah, benzo's do not really provide me any benefit. I've tried klonopin, xanax and valium (7mg) each only once, did nothing but add sluggishness. I wonder how it helps others, maybe they use megadoses or something

 

[angelomorgano]

I'm now 11 days past my last suboxone dose of 0.2, and 2 days off kratom as well, (used 50grams in 5 days, kratom meng da). I again feel quite shitty when it comes to energy. My nights are troublesome (waking up, hard falling asleep, took clonidine for sleep last night, which worked well) and when I wake up I feel relatively OK, but around noon I feel so tired and lethargic I can sleep again for 2 hours. I also have a weird feeling in the back of my knees, as it's super weak. If I go work out, then that feeling is much worse than if I don't work out for 1 day.

If I drink a redbull I feel quite uneasy. I started supplementing with DLPA, read that that might help.

Sometimes I wonder if this is PAWS or if this is just the boring life due to Corona that sucks all the fun out of it.