'Businessman Trips'? Short duration psychedelics?

[Vediog]

5-meo-malt won't get anywhere near the profundity of DMT but it shared many traits with a sub breakthrough dose of deemsters and lasts around 2 hours or so. It's probably kinda rare though because it's really not too special.

 

[Kaleida]

Do you have any preferences among these base tryptamines Kaleida? It seems like you've sampled the tryptamines pretty widely

I have indeed sampled my fair share of tryptamines, but I actually don't have all that much experience with all the base tryptamine yet. I do, however, own all of those that I named, as well as DiPT, and will be trying all of them within the upcoming months... so I should have a better answer for that soon.

So far, the base tryptamines I have tried are DMT, MET, MiPT, DiPT, and DALT. Of them, MiPT was absolutely my favorite.... Nothing else even comes close. I could rave about it here, but my trip report is what would really do it justice, I try not to recommend my own writings too much but I'd definitely say you should check it out if you're interested! Of the rest, DMT has given me by far the strongest effect, but MET, which I've only briefly explored, feels extremely similar but much easier to handle so far, like it's almost the same trip but drawn out a bit more so the initial rush is significantly calmer and the afterglow is longer-lasting, and I also find it much more euphorically stimulating than DMT's afterglow, much like a 4-HO-MET trip versus mushrooms. The visuals were also just a bit more hedonistic than DMT's, they have that stereotypical "LSD-like" feeling that again also applies to this tail change for the 4-substituted tryptamines. Notably, I have also given a family member a breakthrough on it, and they've never had a DMT breakthrough, but they were a big acidhead in the '60s. They claimed it to be one of the best psychedelics they've tried so far, and remained completely calm and mostly capable of regular conversation through it, despite the fact that they were able to go in and out of the alternate worlds simply by closing and opening their eyes, respectively, for an entire hour, and actually simply chose to call it quits and go to bed happily before actually coming down, they were actually just that satisfied by it already by then. So, I definitely think that sounds like a pretty promising one too!

Also, of course, DiPT is remarkable in its own way, but as a basic psychedelic it's not really something that has overly impressed me yet. The audio distortions, however, are absolutely astounding, and unlike anything any other psychedelic, except those few also containing isopropyl tails, could ever do.

Long-lasting salvia? Sounds like... a probable nightmare.

Heh heh, to each their own. I love salvia personally, and think that one of its main problems is its short duration. And, for what it's worth, I also tend to think that salvia suffers from "comeup syndrome", which I just now made up. The same is true of smoked DMT.... When comparing it to oral psychedelics, it seems clear to me that the DMT trip is mainly an extremely strong comeup, one so powerful that it makes you totally delirious, but then the trip fades before the "regular" trip starts, which we associate most of the oral psychedelic experience with. So, I feel that salvia is the same, and that if it were extended it could likely produce more of a plateau stage as well.... This is, at the very least, supported by my experiences smoking it several times back to back; the first smoke was exactly like any other single time salvia trip, but the subsequent smokes were completely different, not dissociating at all but instead very grounded in my body, surprisingly euphoric, and with beautiful open eye visuals similar to both psychedelics and deliriants, whereas the first hit for me is almost always just closed eye visuals of the kind that typically accompany ego loss-type experiences, which again is just like the comeup/peak of a psychedelic to me more so than the plateau. So, I will definitely reserve my judgement of a long-lasting salvia analogue until I've actually tried one personally....

"Salvinorin B methoxymethyl ether". Claimed to be approximately 5 times the duration and potency of salvinorin A.

That one I am quite interested in as well. The ethoxymethyl version also sounds quite interesting to me from the reports. However, in this case I was referring to this study, which just came out a few months ago. It seems to me like the rigid structures they developed here could make for significantly greater metabolic stability than even the Salvinorin B methoxymethyl and ethyoxyethyl ethers, which from the reports honestly sound like they still don't last that much longer than salvinorin A does.

 

[yessa]

which from the reports honestly sound like they still don't last that much longer than salvinorin A does.

Yeah I thought the same. From the report on human trials it seems the peak duration is about the same, just the after effects come down is quite stretched in time.

 

[Wiserthanearlier]

Interesting thread. I personally arent the biggest fan of tryptamines, i certainly prefer the sparkle offered by phenethylamines.

But 5meodmt is very short as mentioned above. I can concur.
Not yet mentioned is 5meodipt. To me, nothing exciting but under 5 hours for memory from start to baseline again.

 

[EntheoDjinn]

............................... I also tend to think that salvia suffers from "comeup syndrome", which I just now made up. The same is true of smoked DMT.... When comparing it to oral psychedelics, it seems clear to me that the DMT trip is mainly an extremely strong come-up, one so powerful that it makes you totally delirious, but then the trip fades before the "regular" trip starts, which we associate most of the oral psychedelic experience with. So, I feel that salvia is the same, and that if it were extended it could likely produce more of a plateau stage as well.... .

Nicely put Kaleida - this really chimes with me with respect to my one 40 minute-long oral tincture experience. After a 10 minute gentle come up, followed by a 15 minute period of terror, I entered a 15 minute state that could only be described as utterly sublime. I have never experienced anything like it. Although I am giving times, they are 'guesstimations' (- my partner timed me from eyes closed to eyes open for the total duration) and of course it is the case for me anyway that time is not perceived in anyway at all during the peak. I did have some awareness of time during the come-up and plateau though.

And as is the nature of Salvia, the reorientation back to total normality was rapid - it is hard not to be disappointed that just when you think you are where you want to be, consensus reality shoulders its way back in just as quickly as when a smoked experience evaporates.

I felt privileged on my return for having been able to visit such a strange and wondrous place, and for such an extended period of time compared to smoking the herb. The earlier terror (caused by 'hanging on' I suspect) left no trace. I was filled with joy and amazement. Subtle signs of psychological improvement stayed with me for around 2 months, noticeable only in retrospect when i reflected on how i had dealt with social situations more effectively than I might normally.

I am heartened that there may be analogues that provide an extended and more memorable experience (by memorable I mean remember-able) - there was no amnesia with the oral ingestion for me.

 

[Kaleida]

I'm glad that it resonated with you, EntheoDjinn, and that experience definitely sounds like a great one. And it certainly makes me even more confident about that idea I put forward then, too. I haven't actually had the good fortune to try a salvia tincture yet, and will sadly have to move somewhere else before I really get the chance, but this has made me much more excited for it than I even was before. And yeah, some orally stable and longer-lasting analogues would be great too, I really hope that someone out there starts putting these on the market at some point in our lives. I know that they actually have been studying salvinorin A and other kappa-opioid receptor agonists for addiction therapy and other positive psychological things in the same way that they're studying other hallucinogens these days, so hopefully after enough time there will be enough interest in them to generate some sort of movement. Notably, I've actually even seen studies of administering salvia or salvinorin A to humans in hallucinogenic doses that claimed that most of their participants fully enjoyed the experience and found it meaningful, so I think it's quite clear that it does just come down to many overlapping factors that could affect any other sort of hallucinogenic experience just as much, the good old set and setting as we always say, and that the more these drugs are studied the more we may find that they're actually not so readily disliked after all anyway.

 

[EntheoDjinn]

Here's hoping Kaleida . My experiences with non-breakthrough doses of Salvia (smoked) are that there is a strongly dysphoric element. A sense of being physically pulled somewhere against my will - a very present sinister feeling as well as a strange but very perceptible coldness.

However, with a smoked breakthrough dose, there is no time to dwell on the dysphoria - the ride slowly accelerates to become a sort of white-knuckle affair where the content overwrites the unpleasantness with awe and fascination. With tincture there is a gentleness that precludes the dysphoria and leads to a difficult existential battle that gives way to the sublime amazement I mentioned in my previous post. Like being back at the beginning of organic life in a primordial swamp with entities that are at the same time human and also reptilian/amphibian. It seemed to me to be what the post-modernists called the return to innocence - however whilst they berate any attempts to return there, in my opinion, it can be experienced in all it's glory. Even if for only 15 minutes

At least this is true for me. Longer-lasting analogues could well be the way to go. But Salvia tincture with Salvinorin A, administered sub-lingually, is already there and available for those who can either buy it or extract their own from the plant. I personally would like to try a 2 hour experience, but then again after I'd had one, I might prefer to stick with the 45 minute "businessman's Lunch