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Bupropion and MDMA?
- Thread starter pyttsan
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MagickalKat777
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Generally safe but its going to blunt most of the effects of the MDMA while increasing the stimulant effects so be careful if you choose to do it.
PepperSocks
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^ Flip that. Recent experience with this. Bupriopion is a DARI, not SSRI. A DARI blocks releasing agents from releasing dopamine but leaves serotonin unaffected.
With less dopamine release it's much more mellow. The comedown is also much easier/less sketchy. It still has the warm, happy effect, but the ecstatic energy isn't as prevalent.
Either way, it is safe. I'm not your doctor, so disclaimer and all.. Bupropion isn't like SSRI's in that you have to be on it for weeks to start working. If you feel you won't go downhill if you skip a day's dose, I'd say skip it the day you plant to roll. That was my approach and the roll worked, not quite as stimulating, but it definitely worked. I don't have experience with taking bupropion and MDMA on the same day.
You might want to up the MDMA dose as well, unless you want a really mild roll. I had ~140 + 50 an hour later and it felt like a relaxed '120mg' at peak. The attenuated dopamine release makes the comedown/hangover really mild. The comedown felt like I took 100mg or less. With bupropion you don't have to worry about a solid dose making you into a solid sketchbag.
With less dopamine release it's much more mellow. The comedown is also much easier/less sketchy. It still has the warm, happy effect, but the ecstatic energy isn't as prevalent.
Either way, it is safe. I'm not your doctor, so disclaimer and all.. Bupropion isn't like SSRI's in that you have to be on it for weeks to start working. If you feel you won't go downhill if you skip a day's dose, I'd say skip it the day you plant to roll. That was my approach and the roll worked, not quite as stimulating, but it definitely worked. I don't have experience with taking bupropion and MDMA on the same day.
You might want to up the MDMA dose as well, unless you want a really mild roll. I had ~140 + 50 an hour later and it felt like a relaxed '120mg' at peak. The attenuated dopamine release makes the comedown/hangover really mild. The comedown felt like I took 100mg or less. With bupropion you don't have to worry about a solid dose making you into a solid sketchbag.
MagickalKat777
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^ I mixed the two. It felt like I had done speed, not MDMA. The empathy wasn't really present but the side effects were pronounced. I was taking IR bupropion, don't know if that makes a difference but I tried rolling twice and both times it was a low empathy highly stimulated disaster and I hated it. Although bupropion was like speed to me anyway. I lost 20 pounds on that stuff when I couldn't really afford to lose weight.
Mixing SSRIs with MDMA (with the exception of Celexa which had weird effects with me all the way around) caused a complete blunting of pretty much all of the effects.
See here: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-affect-MDMA?p=3206313&viewfull=1#post3206313
With the seizure risk, its certainly not safe. And if you read through that thread, some people had blunting, others had no difference noticed, and others had increased effects so it varies by person.
Mixing SSRIs with MDMA (with the exception of Celexa which had weird effects with me all the way around) caused a complete blunting of pretty much all of the effects.
See here: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-affect-MDMA?p=3206313&viewfull=1#post3206313
With the seizure risk, its certainly not safe. And if you read through that thread, some people had blunting, others had no difference noticed, and others had increased effects so it varies by person.
PepperSocks
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Yeah, SSRIs demolish it.
It has speedy-ish effects on it's own, but it's not cumulative in combination with a releasing agent, because it's a reuptake inhibitor. It blocks MDMA (or other amp) from binding to the DAT, analogous to how SSRIs block MDMA from binding to the SERT.
Everyone is different, I've read of the same thing you speak of, as well as read of the same thing I speak of. From a pharmacological aspect the attenuation of dopamine release makes sense. I should also note that bupropion is known for attenuating effects from regular amphetamines, which it certainly does with me as well.
I suppose in terms of harm reduction we shouldn't say taking anything is safe, including MDMA by itself, but well, ya. The decrease in seizure threshold has been shown to be present in very few people. It's certainly not like taking an MAOI or tramadol. Nothing like this can be considered completely safe, but the majority of people who combine them do so without issue.
While I don't follow the enhancement of 'speedy\ effects by combining an inhibitor with a releaser, I think the end of the paragraph is accurate.
It has speedy-ish effects on it's own, but it's not cumulative in combination with a releasing agent, because it's a reuptake inhibitor. It blocks MDMA (or other amp) from binding to the DAT, analogous to how SSRIs block MDMA from binding to the SERT.
Everyone is different, I've read of the same thing you speak of, as well as read of the same thing I speak of. From a pharmacological aspect the attenuation of dopamine release makes sense. I should also note that bupropion is known for attenuating effects from regular amphetamines, which it certainly does with me as well.
I suppose in terms of harm reduction we shouldn't say taking anything is safe, including MDMA by itself, but well, ya. The decrease in seizure threshold has been shown to be present in very few people. It's certainly not like taking an MAOI or tramadol. Nothing like this can be considered completely safe, but the majority of people who combine them do so without issue.
thread said:
While I don't follow the enhancement of 'speedy\ effects by combining an inhibitor with a releaser, I think the end of the paragraph is accurate.
MagickalKat777
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Bupropion is an odd drug on its own and wildly unpredictable so I'm always extremely cautious when telling others what can and can not be mixed with it.
That's besides the fact that if you need an antidepressant, you really shouldn't be taking a potent serotonin releaser in the first place.
That's besides the fact that if you need an antidepressant, you really shouldn't be taking a potent serotonin releaser in the first place.
PepperSocks
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Yeah, idiosyncratic reactions sure aren't unheard of. It's important to be safe, but everything carries some risk. I think the thing for the OP to remember is that I'm just being honest with my view based on my experience. I don't feel like there is a high level of risk, and I'm not going to lie and say that I think there's a high level of risk. Harm reduction is good and all, but so is honesty.
Another thing to note, when I took it bupropion didn't feel particularly edgy for me. If I already had that 'electric head' feeling of a low seizure threshold I wouldn't have done MDMA. Be aware of the info your body gives you.
Yes, that is also a good point. So often though it's not a total need. I felt fine with skipping a day or two and doing MDMA, but that's not fine for everyone. Since then I've also come to the conclusion I don't need a daily anti-depressant. Bupropion is good when a depressive phase comes in, especially because unlike SSRIs it starts working on the first dose and there's no or little w/d. Again, YMMV.
On another level I think sporadic, therapeutic MDMA use is far more effective than daily anti-depressants. Again, YMMV. I have a hard time not being honest.
Another thing to note, when I took it bupropion didn't feel particularly edgy for me. If I already had that 'electric head' feeling of a low seizure threshold I wouldn't have done MDMA. Be aware of the info your body gives you.
Yes, that is also a good point. So often though it's not a total need. I felt fine with skipping a day or two and doing MDMA, but that's not fine for everyone. Since then I've also come to the conclusion I don't need a daily anti-depressant. Bupropion is good when a depressive phase comes in, especially because unlike SSRIs it starts working on the first dose and there's no or little w/d. Again, YMMV.
On another level I think sporadic, therapeutic MDMA use is far more effective than daily anti-depressants. Again, YMMV. I have a hard time not being honest.