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buprenorphine seperation...

Well, I'm thoroughly confused. If the naloxone in suboxone fails to precipitate withdrawal when the pills are iv'd, then why do they add it to the lozenges? Is it just a psychological deterrent?

I have experienced precipitated withdrawal from a sublingual suboxone 18 hours after using heroin and I've seen a friend go into precipitated withdrawal from one 36 hours after using his regular 20mg maintenance dose of methadone when the doctor switched him at his request. Although I know and understand this to be from the buprenorphine and not the naloxone and not disagreeing with the medical community but anecdotally my experience is the same as what specneck is saying. The buprenorphine ampules we used to get before suboxone was put on the market would never precipitate withdrawal in me or anyone I know when used sublingual on the same day as heroin use. I did have some weird side effects when I Iv'd them once but wouldn't describe it as withdrawal symptoms. The ampules said for sublingual use and may have had some ingredients that were incompatible with IV use and the sublingual availability was so high that I stayed away from IV use of the ampules after that one time.
 
The naloxone addition was an eloquent scam to extend the patent... When the patent for buprenorphine-only pills ran out, they came up with this bullshit formulation that supposedly "deters abuse" which they could patent all over again.

Of course it was/is all bullshit, as is evident from the people who used to inject subutex and now inject suboxone.

Note, I don't recommend injecting any pills unless you have the means to properly filter all the crap out of them.
 
Uh I would like to comment here...

The naloxone is pretty much inactive...

Naloxone will compete with buprenorphine, if you are coming off H, you will feel alittle odd during this time period when they are competeting. I've never experienced terrible WD, but then again I didn't feel better till about 10mins. Then you can actually feel the buprenorphine win the war.
Now, if you have suboxone in your system from say, the day before. You will feel no change at all.

Now if you inject suboxone being sober for 2 or 3 days or longer. You will actually feel a high from the injection.

If I were to say inject my mom, whom doesn't use opioids, she would feel HIGH almost faster than heroin.

The ONLY time WD happens is when there is still low low activity from the full agonist in the synapses

This is caused MAINLY by buprenorphine.

Infact, If someone has overdosed on full opioid agonists. Injecting them with suboxone OR subtex will bring them out of it.
This is a VERY VERY important message to everyone out there. You need to know this rule. It can save a life and the people around that life. You can avoid having to call the cops or authorities. Who just love to throw everyone is jail.

But yes Naloxone does nothing...You have been lied to....by a drug company??????
NO?!?!?! That couldn't be?????

Everything you need to know about this lie is in the package insert, IF you read it correctly. And ask yourself...what is it in its self?

Ramble ramble,
Hope these words helped.
DRH
 
The best way to seperate buprenorphine from naloxone is..........................


DRUM ROLL!!!!!

NOT TO DO IT. You will waste more of the drug. Just get Rx'ed Subutex like someone else said. Complain that you get really really bad headaches...Try that...

Sorry for two posts, I got off topic in the first one.
 
laudium said:
The best way to seperate buprenorphine from naloxone is..........................


DRUM ROLL!!!!!

NOT TO DO IT. You will waste more of the drug. Just get Rx'ed Subutex like someone else said. Complain that you get really really bad headaches...Try that...

Sorry for two posts, I got off topic in the first one.
Click to expand...

The price difference between Suboxone (available as a brand name only) and generic Subutex is a valid reason for asking for Subutex as well. Its why I switched.
 
wesley90 said:
"Buprenorphine hydrochloride is a white powder, weakly acidic with limited solubility in
water (17mg/mL). Chemically, buprenorphine is 17-(cyclopropylmethyl)-α -(1,1-
dimethylethyl)-4, 5-epoxy-18, 19-dihydro-3-hydroxy-6-methoxy- α -methyl-6, 14-
ethenomorphinan-7-methanol, hydrochloride [5α, 7α(S)]-. Buprenorphine hydrochloride has
the molecular formula C29 H41 NO4 HCl and the molecular weight is 504.10."

"Naloxone hydrochloride is a white to slightly off-white powder and is soluble in water, in
dilute acids and in strong alkali. Chemically, naloxone is 17-Allyl-4,5 α -epoxy-3, 14-
dihydroxymorphinan-6-one hydrochloride. Naloxone hydrochloride has the molecular
formula C19 H21 NO4 HCl .2H2 O and the molecular weight is 399.87."

Source: http://www.opioids.com/buprenorphine/subutex-suboxone.pdf


Now, the only way I see to isolate the buprenorphine is by it's weight or use about 17mgs of buprenorphine in 1 mL of water and somehow seperate the naloxone...but I dont see how to isolate the buprenorphine if naloxone is so water soluble....

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...



When you solvate the buprenorphine find a base with a similar pka-ph to precipitate the buprenorphine out of solution. Or better yet....precipitate out eh Naloxone....

Do alot of research into solvents....isolating two compounds with different solubilities is simple with the right equipment.
 
Experience vs Scare tactics OOPS I Mean pharmacology

laudium said:
Uh I would like to comment here...

The naloxone is pretty much inactive...

Naloxone will compete with buprenorphine, if you are coming off H, you will feel alittle odd during this time period when they are competeting. I've never experienced terrible WD, but then again I didn't feel better till about 10mins. Then you can actually feel the buprenorphine win the war.
Now, if you have suboxone in your system from say, the day before. You will feel no change at all.

Now if you inject suboxone being sober for 2 or 3 days or longer. You will actually feel a high from the injection.

If I were to say inject my mom, whom doesn't use opioids, she would feel HIGH almost faster than heroin.

The ONLY time WD happens is when there is still low low activity from the full agonist in the synapses




RIGHT ON Laudium! U are on the money. There is no comparison between textbook knowledge of Suboxone and actual expertise. In fact you wouldn't believe how many people who are in opiate maintenance don't believe a word of what u just wrote, and will not try taking Subs any other way due to crazy allegations their doctors make about the drug. Everything u said agrees with all of us here who choose to use alternative routes of administration simply because using Suboxone as prescribed is pretty much wasteful. Example: I am prescribed two 8's a day and it takes about 50-75% of my recommended dose to make me feel normal (Psychologically, emotionally; physically). I can feel absolutely fine on 1-2 milligrams. Moreover, I find that insufflation is a bit more efficient and lasts longer than IV route, although, if you have a good supply, intravenous is awesome and kicks in a lot quicker than any other method. An added benefit for me is that IV'ing Subs has never given me a headache, whereas snorting just a bit too much will give me a bad headache every time. With the new "filmstrips" there is virtually nothing left behind to filter out (Not even coloring), and I have yet to actually find the need for cotton, though I do not recommend putting anything in a rig w/out filtering. Sorry this has nothing to do with seperation itself, it is solely an argument against.
Click to expand...
 
Ive agree

Sublove said:
laudium said:
Uh I would like to comment here...

The naloxone is pretty much inactive...

Naloxone will compete with buprenorphine, if you are coming off H, you will feel alittle odd during this time period when they are competeting. I've never experienced terrible WD, but then again I didn't feel better till about 10mins. Then you can actually feel the buprenorphine win the war.
Now, if you have suboxone in your system from say, the day before. You will feel no change at all.

Now if you inject suboxone being sober for 2 or 3 days or longer. You will actually feel a high from the injection.

If I were to say inject my mom, whom doesn't use opioids, she would feel HIGH almost faster than heroin.

The ONLY time WD happens is when there is still low low activity from the full agonist in the synapses




RIGHT ON Laudium! U are on the money. There is no comparison between textbook knowledge of Suboxone and actual expertise. In fact you wouldn't believe how many people who are in opiate maintenance don't believe a word of what u just wrote, and will not try taking Subs any other way due to crazy allegations their doctors make about the drug. Everything u said agrees with all of us here who choose to use alternative routes of administration simply because using Suboxone as prescribed is pretty much wasteful. Example: I am prescribed two 8's a day and it takes about 50-75% of my recommended dose to make me feel normal (Psychologically, emotionally; physically). I can feel absolutely fine on 1-2 milligrams. Moreover, I find that insufflation is a bit more efficient and lasts longer than IV route, although, if you have a good supply, intravenous is awesome and kicks in a lot quicker than any other method. An added benefit for me is that IV'ing Subs has never given me a headache, whereas snorting just a bit too much will give me a bad headache every time. With the new "filmstrips" there is virtually nothing left behind to filter out (Not even coloring), and I have yet to actually find the need for cotton, though I do not recommend putting anything in a rig w/out filtering. Sorry this has nothing to do with seperation itself, it is solely an argument against.
Click to expand...

I've understood this since 2005. I still have counselors who dont. It is simple "receptor binding affinity" If it helps remember "Really Big Asses". RBA Buprenorphine is stronger than naloxone. Naloxone stronger than almost any full agonist.
Buprenorphine > Naloxone > FULL AGONISTS. You all remember the "greater than" sign from 3rd grade right :)

My dad used to give me Narcan challenges if he though I was using. I remember one time I was so loaded from taking a sub after being clean for 6 days he was sure he was gonna send me into withdrawal. "He had me" He gave the the full reccommended dose of 6 mg and it didnt do SHIT. He was dumfounded. He went on to be a sub dr and I told him about that situation, which he remembered very well. It all made sense finally.

I just responded to the OP question. I just assume people all finally understand this simple concept, but I am reminded often this is not true.
Click to expand...
 
You can say that Naloxone is "pretty much" inactive, and you might be right, but that would be like saying that fentynl is pretty much inactive.
Naloxone definately has a major effect! If you think it doesnt, then go ahead and try it after some opiates.
 
dread said:
It's the buprenorphine that is doing that. Bupre being a partial agonist, it will only partially activate the mu-receptor while your brain is used to full agonism from the H and you will go into withdrawal.

Naloxone being in the formulation doesn't mean anything, since buprenorphine overrides the naloxone with it's higher binding affinity.
Click to expand...

bup is an antagonist at the mu receptor, it is a partial agonist on other receptors.
 
^-- without checking sources I'm pretty sure Bup is a Kappa antagonist, a delta agonist, and a mu partial agonist. Norbupe (Metabolite from buprenorphine) is a full mu agonist but has a lower binding affinity than bupe proper.

-C
 
On Naloxone being "inactive" what the OP meant is that in the presence of Bupe, almost anything is "inactive" (bupe>naloxone>full agonists) So essentially the buprenorphine makes naloxone inactive by occluding it from receptors, where it (naloxone) would do the same in the presence of a full agonist. That's the reason you can save an OD victim with bupe. Also, bupe not only has the highest receptor affinity of any available opiate, but also the longest activation time (time it takes for receptor release and recycling)
 
Methyl alcohol is the key...soak buprenex for 15-30 mins in lab grave methyl alcohol. I use 0.22 micron filter to then squirt solution onto sterile spoon and use a light, warm stream of air to evaporate all the methyl. Once evaporated, use at least 1ml warm water per 8mg, squirt onto spoon which now contains only bup, and mix well
 
What about just simply smoking suboxone. I've smoked small amount numerous times and been completely high and euphoric. no work required and easy. Is there anything bad about this, if so i'd very much like to no. But from my understanding naloxone only works in your body through absorption (ie. dissolving under tongue as directed) so that would mean A) sniffing it you would only get the buprenorphine, (which i've also done before and been completely ripped, stronger than any oxy. so then B) smoking it, would it be safe to say that your only really getting the high from the buprenorphine, since naloxone is an opioid inhibiter?

Please let me know, but i've been smoking it and only getting a nice desirable and euphoric high. Never been sick from it at all. Ps. it takes like burnt marshmallows though haha.
 
For anyone still confused about precipitated withdrawals and the mechanisms that influence such a god awful experience please do some basic research on the NAABT website or studies through the NIH. It is well documented by both organizations that the small amount of naloxone in Sub has a minimal effect on your opiate receptors even when snorted or injected. NAABT has clearly shown that the Buprenorprhine in Suboxone accounts for the precipitated WD even when the medication is injected. On top of this the half life of the Naloxone is around 1 hour. Educating yourself on these issues can save you from believing that Subutex is more abusable through dangerous administrations routes. Really there is no need to separate the naloxone because it's virtually inactive and barely absorbed when used SL in the dosages found in Suboxone. NO matter what form of Buprenorphine you have if you are using other opiates long term on a daily schedule and you take an active dose you will go into extreme WD's. http://www.naabt.org/documents/NAABT_PrecipWD.pdf
 
sixstringsamurai11 said:
is it safe to inject buprenorphine? But i want to inject it without naloxone cause i'l be shooting heroin.:)
Click to expand...

I fired like three or four of the orange N8 six sided pills with the cross / sword-with-hilt and my pupils instantly blew to saucers and I spent what seemed like a half hour in the bathroom waiting for the cold ice water feeling to leave my spine (if I remember correct it was in the fetal position on the floor, but saying so greatly exaggerates the discomfort, I mean, that's how I take my showers too; I've got an issue when it comes to creature comforts); it hits you so fast and piques so IMHO it isn't as bad as unforced PWS, esp. since it wears off and the high from the (probably too many, ceiling effect, & etc.) subs comes on and has a really good glow. Definitely distinct from shooting H, oxy, dilaudid, morphine, demerol, etc.
 
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