Buprenorphine hydrochloride and naloxone hydrochloride (sublingual) 8 mg (base) / 2 m

[Awkward_Whimper]

I've had a casual history with opioids and enjoy them from time to time. My preference is 30-60mg of oxycodone but it has been some time since I've had the pleasure of taking it.

Recently I was given four pills I've identified as Buprenorphine/Naloxone (2mg base). I'd like to feel that drowsy opiate/opioid high again but have never used or had experience with suboxone in any shape or form. I also know naloxone can interfere with the high as well. I don't want to waste these pills and would like to get the most out of them I can.

I don't inject, snort, or plug. I've found these to be unpleasant and rarely do they give me the high oral use would normally give.

With my preferred dosage of oxycodone I was wondering what a rough conversion would be to enjoy the high if possible or if I should throw them out as suboxone is more a deterrent than a recreational drug.

Any advice for administration would be greatly appreciated.

 

[SiCc]

Less is more with bupe. If I were you, I'd start out with .5 to 1mg and wait awhile to see how you feel. Especially if your tolerance is low at this point.

As for a conversion to 30-60mg of oxycodone I cannot comment on.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You won't get as much from taking buprenorphine sublingually (as prescribed - it should never be eaten whole, but dissolved under the tongue so the sublingual membrane can absorb it; sublingual BA is much higher than oral) as you would insulating (snorting) smaller amounts of it.

If you don't want to take it via insulfation or plugging, crush up some of the buprenorphine you want to use, starting small until you know how it effects you (start trying 0.5-1mg buprenorphine, or at most an eight of an 8mg pill), then wash your mouth our with an ethanol based mouthwash like Listerine, and finally put the buprenorphine powder from the pill under the tongue directly after spitting out the Listerine.

You can also use little cotton balls soaked in high proof ethanol (like over 40% vodka) and put the buprenorphine powder on top of those after you put them under your tongue. IME using an ethanol based mouthwash works more effectively, but the idea is that any high proof ethanol will work.

The biggest thing you need to make sure of it that you don't take buprenorphine within 24hrs of taking any other opioids. So wait at least 24hrs after taking oxycodone before trying buprenorphine.

In terms of IV use dose equivalency, 0.9mg buprenorphine is equanalgesic to 60mg oxycodone. This ration should hold more or less accurate for comparing sublingual buprenorphine compared to oral oxycodone (I assume you've been using it orally; you might need a little over 1mg to really get an equivalent dose however, particularly if you aren't familiar with how to use the buprenorphine sublingually already).

"OD"s from buprenorphine (basically you just end up super duper sick for a day or two) is really uncomfortable, especially for opioid naive individuals. Sounds like you have some tolerance if you can take 60mg oxycodone though, so you shouldn't have much to worry about regarding too much buprenorphine. Still, it's a super powerful/potent drug before you develop a tolerance to it though, so start low at no more than 1mg and slowly work your way up. Keep in mind it can take 30-90 minutes for sublingual buprenorphine to kick in.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Buprenorphine (Suboxone/Subutex) is often misunderstood by users. It's role as an addiction-maintenance drug, as well as its status as a partial-agonist often lead users to make assumptions that the drug is not potent or otherwise not abusable/recreational. This is partially true, but the overlapping truth is that Buprenorphine is actually a very potent Opioid and is prone to a level of abuse almost on par with other powerful Opioids, especially if the user in question is not a hardcore, Opioid-dependent individual. When I first began dabbling in Opioids and had not yet acquired a dependence, I would typically use 2mg sublingually for a good "buzz" and 4mg sublingually might have me nodding out.

Given the fact that Buprenorphine is a partial agonist and you have only experience with full-agonists like Oxycodone, a totally accurate conversion is not really possible. As others have said, "less is more" with Buprenorphine and this is based upon clinical research into the drug's binding affinity, not just hearsay. If you can get away with a lower dosage, you will ultimately end up with more Mu agonism (what you want) than with higher dosages. Another important point to make, is that the Naloxone that is coupled with Suboxone makes little if any difference in the course of action of the drug, especially if taken by the sublingual route, so don't worry about it.

Don't confuse yourself with all of this new information, but it would be in your best interest to begin learning about these drugs. At any rate, I wouldn't exceed 2mg Buprenorphine sublingually. It's unlikely that a higher dosage would actually kill you, but as others have said, being extremely ill from any kind of Opioid overdose is actually no fun at all.

 

[FungousSneeze]

One of the very first opioids i tried with no tolerance was 8mg of buprenorphine. I had never heard of it nor any other sublingual opioid at the time and it absolutely floored me for about 48 hours. Enjoying the first two hours and puking for the next 22, followed by a strong high the next day.

Bupe became my absolute favorite opioid before i was dependent and i still enjoy it very much in lower doses after a few months clean.

Definitely not the weak unabusable substance it was made out to be

 

[SiCc]

I've never used it for recreational purposes. Only for IV heroin withdrawal and maintenance. My girlfriend wanted to try it years ago and she had been clean from IV heroin use for over 3 months. I gave her about. 3 to. 5 and she was ripped. I think doctors over prescribe the dosage. I was given 24mgs a day which I didn't understand. This was when it first was approved for prescription. But as the years went on I would feel the same on 8mgs as I would on 24mgs. I also got bad migraines so I never enjoyed bupe. Yes it helped but it's also a wolf in sheep's wool.

 

[FungousSneeze]

I was also eventually way over prescribed bupe years ago at the first treatment facility i went to when suboxone was the new craze being pushed by reps at facilities. Same, started at 8mg then 16, 24mgs and topping off at 32mg in about a 6 month span.

My habit prior to the bupe was about 80-100mg of oxycodone then. (Ratio of bupe way over prescribed. Probably need only 0.5-2mg) I still to this day wished i had just toughed out the cold turkey but my initial love affair with buprenorphine led me to ask for it maintainence.

I detoxed off it cold turkey a year and a half later, at another facility i went to (for my new found love of benzos and booze). The doctor had no clue what he was doing and had never dealt with anyone who wanted to be tapered off it.

He had no concept of the long half life and dropped me from 32 down to nothing in the intitial week detox of the program. I was terribly ill for other 3 weeks and i got a real taste of withdrawal.

No one there understood why i started really withdrawaling over a week later. No one helped me and i was denied detox protocol meds (after laying on the floor at his door and refusing to get up until i saw this elusive idiotic doctor) as i had already been through the first detox phase of the program. (He came out 30 minutes later because he was in there eating his lunch while a patient lay on the floor with a possible serious health condition) Total cold turkey and forced to participate or leave which wasnt an option for the court.

Doctors prescribing this are incredibly oblivious and ill trained in administering bupe. Idk that was years ago maybe its changed but from what i hear it hasnt.

 

[SiCc]

Well in my state, people I knew that are still maintaining using suboxone can only get prescribed the maximum dose of 16 mgs a day. This was years ago so it could have changed. I also think suboxone did something to my receptors. After I got off subs and was clean for some time I occasionally used opiates on weekends and by Monday I'd feel a slight withdrawal. Maybe it's just me or just damage I've done from 10+ years of abuse and relapses.

 

[FungousSneeze]

I too experience this. My brain chemistry has been formed by opioids in such a way that no matter how long ive been clean, after only a couple days use, I subsequently face either some sort of emotional or physical withdrawal.

 

[Keif' Richards]

I hate to hijack the thread with non-HR material, but I really wanted to point out that there is a really awesome documentary called "Reindeer Spotting". The title is a play on words paying homage to the movie "Trainspotting", which was all about Heroin use in Scotland. This film is a non-fictional account of Buprenorphine (Subutex) use, addiction and dependence in Finland. For anyone who doesn't believe that Buprenorphine is not a full-fledged Opioid or otherwise addictive drug, I'd encourage you to watch the documentary.

Who knows how the climate has changed in Finland, but at the time of the making of the documentary, Buprenorphine was the drug of choice among users in the country. They make use of other things like Amphetamine Paste and the occasional dose of Heroin, but Buprenorphine is the "bread and butter".

 

[FungousSneeze]

^^ Someone else mentioned this to me and I completely forgot about it until now. Ive also remembered reading something about the iv’d bupe problem in Finland.

Is buprenorphine used there more frequently as an alternative to full agonist opioids? I wonder what evoked this phenomenon. Im from the states so dont know too “too” much about the european (or rather) the nordic or scandinavian drug scene.

Definitely watching tonight

 

[Keif' Richards]

^^ Someone else mentioned this to me and I completely forgot about it until now. Ive also remembered reading something about the iv’d bupe problem in Finland.

Is buprenorphine used there more frequently as an alternative to full agonist opioids? I wonder what evoked this phenomenon. Im from the states so dont know too “too” much about the european (or rather) the nordic or scandinavian drug scene.

Definitely watching tonight

Well, I won't give away too much of the documentary, but the implication is that prescription for Buprenorphine of the Subutex variety is extremely lax in France. By the look of it, you simply have to go and ask for it and you get it shortly thereafter. The further implication is, that with this flood of Buprenorphine on the streets in France, organized criminals decided they could move the drugs up to the rural north and sell them for a steep profit. I am not from Finland, but the scene definitely seemed to be predicated upon Buprenorphine injection.

There are a couple of scenes where the group were using other drugs like Amphetamine Paste, Heroin etc. but, again, it seemed to be all about the Subutex.

 

[FungousSneeze]

^^ hearing more about it im starting think I actually remember seeing it if its more than 5ish years old. I just probably wasnt in an ideal state of mind to retain or remember any of it...benzodiazepines. Didnt mean to hijack this thread if youre still around op.

Anyway i plan to rewatch it tonight when i get home and maybe introduce a new thread elsewhere to talk about it. Thanks for reminding me of the flick to top off my evening keif!