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Bupe Buprenorphine for depression?

Yeah, I think any feel-good feeling from sub is pretty much a 0temporary side effect caused by it's partial agonist properties. This is not a dedicated anti-depressant we're talking about. I took it during my clinical depression years ago, and it gave me no more than a fleeting mood lift; it was ssri's that really helped in that regard. They're also a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to obtain.

Interesting, I think suboxone works better than any SSRI I've tried. In fact I can't wait to get off my lexapro after trying suboxone, because I feel like lexapro isn't doing much at all. I get bad dreams on it too. What SSRI are you talking about that gave you a permanent mood lift?
 
I'm currently taking mirtazipine (is it an SSRI btw? Somebody told me it contains an anti-histamine, causing it's sedative effects).
I wouldn't consider SSRI's a "happy pill", they just regulate the brains serotonin supply so that it doesn't plummet as in the case of clinical depression (as I understand it in my laymans way). I think semantics comes into play when we're talking about depression; after all, one man's depression is another man's mid-week blues.

I must have failed to explain myself properly: no ssri has ever given me a mood lift, they simply don't work that way; I'll still get bad days, I'll still get the blues, but that doesn't mean they're not working- before I began taking them I had clinical, rock bottom depression. I could barely move, and did in fact make an attempt on my life, missing the artery on my right wrist by a fraction of a milimeter. I havn't felt like that for six years and IMHO it's down to SSRI's

If there is a non-addictive and legal drug that can improve my mood, then I am most def open to suggestions, because as I said I do have the occasional bad day here and there.

BTW what is Lexapro?
 
I'm currently taking mirtazipine (is it an SSRI btw? Somebody told me it contains an anti-histamine, causing it's sedative effects).
I wouldn't consider SSRI's a "happy pill", they just regulate the brains serotonin supply so that it doesn't plummet as in the case of clinical depression (as I understand it in my laymans way). I think semantics comes into play when we're talking about depression; after all, one man's depression is another man's mid-week blues.

I must have failed to explain myself properly: no ssri has ever given me a mood lift, they simply don't work that way; I'll still get bad days, I'll still get the blues, but that doesn't mean they're not working- before I began taking them I had clinical, rock bottom depression. I could barely move, and did in fact make an attempt on my life, missing the artery on my right wrist by a fraction of a milimeter. I havn't felt like that for six years and IMHO it's down to SSRI's

If there is a non-addictive and legal drug that can improve my mood, then I am most def open to suggestions, because as I said I do have the occasional bad day here and there.

BTW what is Lexapro?
I am glad you are still with us and are having success wih your medication. I have heard of remeron and heard it is pretty strong and effective antidepressant. I do not think it is an SSRI, but it is sometimes prescribed with them. Ya sorry I did not mean to categorize all antidepressants as SSRIs, I've only had experience with those. Lexapro is an SSRI used commonly to treat GAD, SAD, OCD and depression. It helps a bit for me, wasn't lifechanging though.
 
Cheers for your concern mate, I really do feel lucky to be around. Remeron, eh? I'll have to look into that one, although the mirt is working well enough for me. I can see the logic in bupe as antidepressant; I remember when I first started taking it; it would give me a powerful, exhilarating sense of well-being. The thing is, I've now been on it for almost a decade and I just don't get that "honeymoon" glow any more; the effects are still there, but far more subtle to me now.

Edit: you're quite right, SSRI's aren't "life changing drugs"; I like to call them "moderating drugs", quietly doing their thing in the background, making sure things are running smoothly.
 
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Remeron is mirtazipine haha it is the brand name :p

And oh I see, I have been on suboxone for around 3 weeks now. It's going to be sad when the honeymoon effects are gone lol
 
Hey guys.
I want to introduce myself in short- I'm on opioids for about 10,11 Years and I've been on buprenorphine for about 3 Years now I think. Initially I started taking opioids for battling my depression which developed soon in my youth; and I can honestly say, that, without opioids, I don't know if I had been able to achieve the things I've achieved so far (surviving, mental issues, education...). Of course, I'm also addicted - means, on one hand, I take my buprenorphine as medication, pure medication for my mental issues (depression and other things..). On the other hand I'm also addicted and sometimes I act like an addict- this is out of question. So, it is both- it is medication and it's also addiction. BUT, the question for me is, below the line, what is the outcome?? is it a plus or is it a minus? Means, it is more therapeutic and has a positive value as outcome or not? The answer is: it has a positive outcome for me and it has been like that for quite a few years.
Will this go gon like this forever? I don't know, but I don't think that's likely. I rather think that the time will come when I sense that the disadvantages will beat the advantages and then it's time to change something.

Some points on my life and my depression: I tried a lot of antidepressants, means, I tried a lot of the medication the "conservative" medicine has to offer to people with depression. I've been in psychotherapy (with few years interruption) for the last 10 years, beginning in the middle of my teenage years. I've also tried the normal range of antidepressants general psychiatry has to offer and they have done nothing for me, I haven't got along with them- the only time in my life where I've really had great benefit from antidepressants was in a perioid of deep major depression (which took me about a year to recover from- without my significant other and my doctor I don't know where this would have ended). Besides that I don't tolerate them, doesn't matter which one, I've had enough (Citalopram,Prozac/Fluoxetine,Reboxetine,mirtazapine,trazodone, list goes on)
So, essentially, there are just a few things that really help me with my depression, and that's buprenorphine, psychotherapy and a healthy social life.

Evidence grows that (not all but some) people with depressive disorders can seriously benefit from small doses of buprenorphine as a therapeutic agens against severe depression. I'm sure the most of you will know the studies which were made on this topic and which all found a great positive outcome for buprenorphine battling depression in people with severe depression. And in our days there is growing evidence that points in the same direction, slowly, more studies will follow up and build up the necessary data to establish a new way in the treatment of (mostly) severe, treatment resistant depression.

So, for one thing it is clear that buprenorphine can't become a standard solution for depression. The effect/side effect ratio is much better for the common antidepressants in the way that buprenorphine for "common depressive orders" was like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I think that's clear to almost everybody.
The vast majority of people with depressive disorders will benefit from standard psychiatric medicine, means, antidepressants like SSRI and also psychotherapy (cognitive behavioural, psychodynamic, whatever it is...).
BUT: for people who suffer treatment resistant depression, who are "untreatable" with the standard arsenal of psychiatric medication, there is GREAT hope in the treatment with (mainly low doses of) buprenorphine. Most people with this condition have comordbitiy with anxiety issues, obsessive compulsive disorder, etc.
Buprenorphine has proven not only to be efficient in treating depression, but also to have anti anxiety properties (and it's likely that it will have an impact on compulsive disorders also).
So, we're talking about people who have conditions that simply drop out of the standard medical system, who suffer from serious, life threatening mental disorders like depression- and they have almost always nothing to loose anymore. So, the last thing they care about is the "Danger of getting addicted"- people like this care about surviving or not. That's it. And in this situation you can really benefit from a treatment with buprenorphine and it's worth a try as it will often cure the depression to a point where these people can reach a level of quality of live that's worth living again.

Maybe some of you are interested, so I will share some things with you about my consumption of opioids. The dose I take right now are ~2mg of buprenorphine. But I want to taper down to 1mg/ 1.2mg.
The dose hasn't changed over the years; as a matter of fact, the dose I took in the beginning of my opioid-career was even higher than the dose I take right now.
I've had my ups and downs with doses over the 10 years. There were phases where I took rather high doses but also phases where I dropped again to my "standard" dose. High doses mean: subjective high doses; high doses measured with my personal scales ;).
So over the years the amount I take hasn't really changed. Like I mentioned before, over the years, especially when you have an hedonic base slope, caused by mental issues and other negative conditions in your life, you sometimes also get seduced to chase "wellbeeing"- and that's where addiction begins, for sure.
So, in my personal case, it is, like I said before, both. One part is addiction and the other part is medication. Will it be a problem when the time will eventually come to get off my medication? YES. Does it bother me? a bit. Do I regret to have started this path? having trouble someday to get off? NO. Clearly, NO. I've really had other, really more SERIOUS problems in my life then taper down or get off of my medication. That's a joke compared to the things I've had to fight with. You know, if you fight to simply survive, to stay alive, literally, then the framework in which things are related to another changes. Your perspective on life changes and also your view on life.
(no disrespect to all the people that have issues with taper down- all said from my subjective perspective of things..)

Hopefully the day comes where the affected (mostly treatment resistant) people suffering depression can get legally a try with buprenorphine- and their chance to receive a medication that eventually helps them and changes their lives to the better. Of course in a controlled, medical framework that supplies not only the necessary monitoring but also helps with additional therapeutic options.

My 2 cents on this topic ;)
 
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I just started seeing a psychiatrist who is using suboxone on me for depression. I am also a long time opiate addict (about a year smoking heroin, 4-5 years morphine, oxy's, and any opiate pill I could get my hands on, and then sporadically during the last 6 years as I have been trying to get sober.) My depression hasn't been properly treated using many different forms and combos of meds, and when it gets bad enough I use opiates, just to feel better even temporarily. I have a large tolerance to oxycodone still, I can take 200 mgs in a day and be fully functional. So I think all of those things combined made them think that long term suboxone use combined with frequent therapy sessions will help me not be disabled by my depression to the point where I can't leave the house for 7-10 day stretches, making regular therapy almost impossible, not to mention holding a job or ever having enough money as I miss so much work. Part of their psychiatric clinic is a suboxone clinic so I imagine that makes it easy for him to prescribe it. He may not list the reason I'm taking it as the off-label use of treating depression, but that's why I'm using it. Does anyone else have a similar experience with long-term use as Public Enemy? I just started taking it today and do have the euphoric feeling but I imagine that will wear off soon and I'll just get down to the business of wanting to be alive. I am thankful for sharing your experience with long-term use for treating depression. There isn't a lot of information out there about using it in that regard. It gives me hope.
 
You brought back a two-year-old thread just to post a baseless claims without evidence. Please think before you bring back dead topic like this and only do so if you actually have something important to add because this is a complete waste of space and time on this website.
 
Wow I'm sorry I'm still learning and didn't realize it was an old post it was an honest mistake OBVIOUSLY you were never new and never made a mistake so kudos to you have a blessed one as I learn to navigate I may make a mistake or two so very sorry to obviously cause such a large disturbance to your life won't let it happen again!
 
Wow taco that was mean and unnecessary, and actually pretty well off the mark. ALKS-5461 is a uld buprenorphine drug currently deep into trials for depression - it'll probably get approved and be on the market soon. A Harvard study done in the 90's showed it was an effective treatment. This is like, available after two minutes of a wikipedia search, man. You're usually cool so I'm not trying to be a dick here. You have my respect otherwise. But yeah...mean and unnecessary.

Shelly, yes, buprenorphine is wonderful for depression especially in people whose depression has resisted previous, more conservative treatments, and in people who have used opioids in the past and have depression from opioid withdrawal. I know from experience, I used 0.25mg/day for a year and it was an excellent treatment for my pre-existing depression AND my chronic pain. Never had to up the dose.
 
Bup as andidepressant

I'm suprised about the fact, that many postings made here are full of prejudice about the use of opioids- which could also be named as a sort of beeing just unaware, don't know.
I think the point is that these postings come rather from people who write from the perspective as addict/s (withdrawal, the consequences of illegality, problems, suffering etc) than as from a rational Viewpoint.

From a rather rational Viewpoint: By now, there were some really good studies made which researched the effect opioids have in depressive, double-diagnosed (addiction+xy), psychotic or anxious people.

Especially Buprenorphine was (depending on the study) proved to be enormous effective, up to 70%-Remission/Recovery Rate in a sample of 10 double-diagnosed patients.
Buprenorphine was also found to be effective as a fast, mood-stabilizing agent in treating forms of therapy-resistent depression.
There ARE these studies out there, google is your friend...
In most of the studys, the patients were actually or former addicts, but there are also studies researching non-addicts with similiar results.

The efficiancy of Buprenorphine depends on the severity of addiction and the severity of the psychopathological impairment.
It is most effective in middle ranges of these two axes.
Summa summarum, BUP has proved to posess antipsychotic, antidepressive and anti-anxiety properties (which is examined by medical research with empiric methods).
These properties do count also for Methadone, but in different specificities.
For example, the application of 10mg of methadone was able to stop a beginning manic episode.
There are also studies which proove these properties for other opioids like tramadol, oxycodone or morphine.

Buprenorphine can be denoted as a fast acting antidepressant which MAY work VERY well for especially some clusters (not for all!!) to which you can primary count double-diagnosed patients whose degree of impairment does not exceed ( simplistic summarizing) middle range impairment as well as people suffering from therapy resistent depression.
That's it.

I'm on buprenorphine for about half a year and I'm very satisfied with it.
I suffer from a (no official diagnosis, but I would call it-) form of atypical depression; several SSRI and other antidepressants could not help me out, they helped in stages of acute major depression, but in the long run I have no benefit from them as they make me feel just more shitty, bad, uncomfortable. So far there is no AD out there which made me feel normal or comfortable, and I'm pretty sure that there is no 'wonder pill' which would do different.

Buprenorphin indeed is in a position to help me out of my so called depressive disorder and connected impairments like a reduced performance, reduced social life and so on and so on.
So, Bupre is in fact in the position to stabilize me on a basic level, I feel comfortable, normal, (not 'high'!), sometimes happy- feelings that I do not have with SSRI and stuff. I am able to live a 'normal life' in spite of my depressive, melancholic disorder; Bupre does enhance my motivation and mood quite effective, compared with SSRI, which leads to a drastic improved quality of life.

So, for people who have "nothing to loose" (people who do not benefit from the whole range of SSRI/NARI/etc, who suffer from chronic mood disorders etc.) -and I count me to this description- Bupre could be a key to a drastic improvement/benefit and therefore for a increasing quality of life and all things connected to this like beeing able to go working, beeing able to do studies and so on).
When it goes to survive or not survive, you really give a shit about the possible side effects including addiction. This is, firstly, a risk which is ridiculous if you think in categories like survive or not survive- secondly, the risk(s) of addiction is tremendously reduced if you are in a proper therapy. You just put up addiction because it can be accepted if this medication can allow you to just live your life, to percept happy moments again, to pursuit your dreams and aims again- to live! That's it.



If you are interested in some studies, write me, so i will post the name of the study/ies.
You easily find dem via google then.


I know this post is ancient, but I was bored and just reading through everyone's arguments here and I was like "omg, when is somebody going to say something about all the ignorance here!"... All of this "opiates are bad" "you should NEVER use them" shit being thrown everywhere! These people really have no clue about anything and should probably not even be speaking on the matter.

But the poster I quoted finally hit the nail on the head. Very smart person. I can't believe people whine about "omg, addiction, omg dependence".. if the drug works for that person, who gives a shit? It is no different than taking anything else and honestly opiates are much better on the body & brain than even legal drugs (think alcohol). The whole "oh you'll have to come off of it some day".. Uhh, who says so? As long as you have a doctor you can work with, there is no reason anyone should HAVE to come off of any of their meds, EVER, unless they want to.

Sure, nobody should be forced to get on bupe for depression, but it should be an option for people educated enough to make that decision. In fact, not just bupe, but all opioids.

I believe it is this 'attitude' of people who think drugs that can cause addiction/dependence should never have any role in psychiatric care or medical care that stalls progression of drug reform & continues to limit people's freedoms.

Bupe does have evidence showing it can be an incredibly effective drug for depression, especially psychotic & suicidal types. I use to attempt or get very close to suicide at least several times a year. Once I got on bupe, it all went away. Now after 4.5 years, I definitely don't get that extreme sense of well being I use to get & my depression symptoms have popped back up but I find I am still not as bad as I use to be and see no reason to get off my meds any times soon. So far I've had 4 years of stability, which no other psychiatric drug allowed me. It may be crumbling now slightly due to bupes mixed pharmacology (partial agonist and ceiling effect, thus raising the dose does not help), but I am hoping in my life time to see the U.S. start allowing other opioids for maintenance (similar to how you can get medical heroin in Switzerland, but hopefully not as restrictive). Until then, bupe is all I have to use.
 
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I think there is major potential in bupe (or some derivative thereof) for treating depression, yet its going to be years away. I think its use is starting to slowly leak into real practice.

The idea of opiates in general being used to treat depression has been around a long long time. But bupe is different and might be the bridge to making it eventually happen.
The question is being brought up enough now a days, that some drug company or someone with the ability is going to pursue it.

Its always the addiction factor about opiates, but it will soon be realized how terrible SSRIs are to get off of. What gives? There is always a price to pay for feeling better. Sometimes its worth it sometimes not.

There are some depression meds now in clinical trials that have bupe in them. Also, their are other antidepressants in development that are opiates that are selective for KOR.

How times have changed.

However, one of the bupe based antidepressant was rejected during phase 3 for effectiveness, but passed for safety, not long ago. It was Bupe with a MOR antagonist to prevent any high associated with the bupe.

Currently though there are a few other trials going on, with one bupe product expected entry into the market by 2025 as well as a a slew of selective KOR antagonists being tested.

------

My back story

I currently live in the US and am on Bupe, 4mg 2xday for depression. After 20 years of depression and 10 years of PTSD from military that fucked my life, I feel like life is worth living again. My other off label depression meds where amphetamines.

While not an opiate tolerant person, I also am not naive as I was on low doeses for chronic pain on and off for years. I was on Hydromorphone for a while, oxy for a while, but never in high doses. 15mg of oxy would get me good, 25-30 would make me nod. 4-6mg of hydromorphone was also all I needed for pain, 8-12mg would make me fly.

My doctor though after years of treating me realized the times when I had little to no depression and anxiety was during my prescriptions of pain meds. We tried tramadol, the other drug related to tramadol (can't recall the name) and bupe. Tramadol and the other one, both had lots of negative side effects, probably due to the other mechanisms of action besides the DOR MOR and KOR.

As a last resort, and being my doctor for a very long period he prescribed me bupe. Having a long a good relationship matters because he knew I was not prone to abuse my drugs or divert them. He does know about my love of drugs like LSD, shrooms and all that. (He was always very interested in how they effected me and my depression when I did them)
 
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