Bupe Bupe to Hydro to Bupe -- Never felt the Hydro

[BilboBaggins2]

So I was on Bupe for about a month, 4-8 mg per day. I got some hydro and start using 20-30 mg doses 4-5 x day after waiting 24 yours from my last bupe. I did the hydro for about 7 days -- never felt anything from it so it was basically wasted.

Here's the question: Since I never felt anything from the hydro (which tells me my tolerance from bupe is through the roof) can I start taking Bupe again 12 hours after my last hydro dose without going into precipitated withdrawal?

 

[Poppy_Princess]

You will not go into precip withdrawal if it was just pure hydro if you take bupe 12 hours after. You're in the clear.

 

[G_Chem]

It also sounds like the hydro didn’t even touch the sides so I wouldn’t worry much about precipitated WD. Maybe update us regardless if you can, for knowledge sake.

-GC

 

[chicken hoagie]

You will definitely not go into withdrawal from doses of hydro below 100mg (that is considering tolerance).

You didnt feel the hydro because 24 hours off of suboxone isnt even close to long enough for suboxone to all clear out from your opioid receptors. They are still binding to every receptor like crazy, especially if you take doses of suboxone 4mg or more. Keep your suboxone doses at 2mg or less, so that it leaves open room to your brains opioid receptors. If you take 8mg of sub or more, you QUICKLY saturate every receptor in your brain, and it takes 2 days for that saturation to even reach 50% of what it was. In all reality, it takes a good 3 weeks before you will reset a majority of your tolerance to opioids.

 

[Xorkoth]

So I was on Bupe for about a month, 4-8 mg per day. I got some hydro and start using 20-30 mg doses 4-5 x day after waiting 24 yours from my last bupe. I did the hydro for about 7 days -- never felt anything from it so it was basically wasted.

Here's the question: Since I never felt anything from the hydro (which tells me my tolerance from bupe is through the roof) can I start taking Bupe again 12 hours after my last hydro dose without going into precipitated withdrawal?

You're good. You only go into PWD if you are dependent on a full agonist opioid. So unless you were dependent on the hydro, you won't. Hydro is a full agonist, so if you were to the point you had withdrawals if you don't take hydrocodone, you would get PWD if you didn't wait until you were in withdrawal to take the bupe. Basically, bupe displaces any other opioid on your receptors, even naloxone, or fentanyl, or any other opioid I am aware of. Which means that when it hits you, it immediately kicks the other opioids out of the receptors. If you're dependent on a full agonist, you immediately go into withdrawal, because bupe is only a partial agonist, so it can't provide what you need and you go from no withdrawal to 100% withdrawal instantly. But if you're not dependent, when it kicks the other opioids out, you don't get withdrawal, just like you wouldn't get withdrawal if they wore off naturally.

Bupe lasts a long time, in my experience it takes several days to be able to really start feeling other opioids, and even then, you won't feel them as much. Also, hydro is pretty weak compared to bupe, so even after a few days, you probably wouldn't feel hydro if you're used to bupe, unless you took quite large doses.

 

[BilboBaggins2]

I'm not worry

You will definitely not go into withdrawal from doses of hydro below 100mg (that is considering tolerance).

You didnt feel the hydro because 24 hours off of suboxone isnt even close to long enough for suboxone to all clear out from your opioid receptors. They are still binding to every receptor like crazy, especially if you take doses of suboxone 4mg or more. Keep your suboxone doses at 2mg or less, so that it leaves open room to your brains opioid receptors. If you take 8mg of sub or more, you QUICKLY saturate every receptor in your brain, and it takes 2 days for that saturation to even reach 50% of what it was. In all reality, it takes a good 3 weeks before you will reset a majority of your tolerance to opioids.

Thanks for the response. I went an entire 7 days off Bupe and still felt nothing from the hydro. On about day 8 off bupe I got some withdrawal symptoms (minor but very clearly opioid related) like my stomach hurting, very mild sweating, lethargy, and the hydro did absolutely nothing to stop it. I had to get back in the gym the next morning so decided to just take bupe to get rid of the withdrawals and boom! in 15 minutes I felt great.

It was odd that hydro wouldn't put a dent in the Subutex withdrawals when they finally started on Day 8. From this experience I'm guessing there is no point in even trying hydros unless I've been off Bupe for at least a couple of weeks and don't plan to go back on.

 

[chicken hoagie]

I'm not worry


Thanks for the response. I went an entire 7 days off Bupe and still felt nothing from the hydro. On about day 8 off bupe I got some withdrawal symptoms (minor but very clearly opioid related) like my stomach hurting, very mild sweating, lethargy, and the hydro did absolutely nothing to stop it. I had to get back in the gym the next morning so decided to just take bupe to get rid of the withdrawals and boom! in 15 minutes I felt great.

It was odd that hydro wouldn't put a dent in the Subutex withdrawals when they finally started on Day 8. From this experience I'm guessing there is no point in even trying hydros unless I've been off Bupe for at least a couple of weeks and don't plan to go back on.

Yup. Tbh, it may take more than even a couple weeks to regain any sort of high from hydros..plus you would need to take quite a few i would imagine. Hydros binding affinity is nothing compared to sub. Wean down off the suboxone so you dont get withdrawal symptoms though, silly goose.

 

[BilboBaggins2]

Yup. Tbh, it may take more than even a couple weeks to regain any sort of high from hydros..plus you would need to take quite a few i would imagine. Hydros binding affinity is nothing compared to sub. Wean down off the suboxone so you dont get withdrawal symptoms though, silly goose.

I will next time. This time I figured after a week if I had any withdrawal from sub the hydro would take care of it. Not so much!

 

[BilboBaggins2]

Yup. Tbh, it may take more than even a couple weeks to regain any sort of high from hydros..plus you would need to take quite a few i would imagine. Hydros binding affinity is nothing compared to sub. Wean down off the suboxone so you dont get withdrawal symptoms though, silly goose.

Do you think it would still take that much time to feel hydros if I was only taking 2 mg of Suboxone? I've been taking straight Bupe, but heard that low doses of bupe with naloxone actually reduces tolerance, so it's actually more dangerous for people who go back on full agonists. There was some study that showed no issues with people who quit Subutex and started their DOC, but people who took Suboxone had some OD issues because of the naloxone. It's one of the reasons some are lobbying for the naloxone to be removed.

Kind of two different questions there, but I think I may stick to 2 mg, and I have suboxone I can take instead of straight bupe.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I have a weird body chemistry & can feel 10mg of hydro ontop of bupe.
It's blunted a bit of course.
But I've always found that I'm able to feel hydrocodone, heroin & tramadol ontop of bupe.
I think maybe my body eliminates bupe pretty quick though considering I've been on it so long.

 

[1tbps]

Careful now. I'd wait at least 3 days to be sure. You really have to feel the withdrawal. It sucks

 

[BilboBaggins2]

I have a weird body chemistry & can feel 10mg of hydro ontop of bupe.
It's blunted a bit of course.
But I've always found that I'm able to feel hydrocodone, heroin & tramadol ontop of bupe.
I think maybe my body eliminates bupe pretty quick though considering I've been on it so long.

I've read similar comments on here which is why I was surprised that it was useless after 8 days off (and it was USELESS. I tried as many as six pills which is way too much tylenol but I knew if I only did it once it would be ok. Six pills after 8 days and I still felt nothing at all other than sub withdrawal. And I wasn't even taking 8 mg every day; it was more like 8 mg every other day and 2 or 4 mg each day in between. So I definitely had a tolerance but it wasn't like 16 mg or 24 mg like some folks take. Maybe it just stays in my system for a lot longer.

 

[BilboBaggins2]

Careful now. I'd wait at least 3 days to be sure. You really have to feel the withdrawal. It sucks

I've never felt sub withdrawals until this time after 8 days. I've gone off 7 days in a row before and never felt a thing, and that was when taking 4 to 8 mg daily. I was almost to the point of thinking maybe I wouldn't feel withdrawal from sub, but I definitely did on day 8 -- and that was after taking 6-8 hydros per day (in 2-3 doses throughout the day) for the last 6 of the 7 days.

The sub withdrawals weren't nearly like withdrawal from Oxy -- I could still function. But the stomach ache, mild sweating, and total lack of motivation to do anything were definitely there.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I've read similar comments on here which is why I was surprised that it was useless after 8 days off (and it was USELESS. I tried as many as six pills which is way too much tylenol but I knew if I only did it once it would be ok. Six pills after 8 days and I still felt nothing at all other than sub withdrawal. And I wasn't even taking 8 mg every day; it was more like 8 mg every other day and 2 or 4 mg each day in between. So I definitely had a tolerance but it wasn't like 16 mg or 24 mg like some folks take. Maybe it just stays in my system for a lot longer.

Yeah I thought I'd mention my experience because you said you even had those several days clean from the bupe.
4-8mg a day is probably right around the blocking dose, but it does stack up after daily use.
Still, I think it's odd if you didn't even feel the slightest tingle from them.
Were they normal pharma pressed & manufactured pills or did you get them from another source?

 

[BilboBaggins2]

Yeah I thought I'd mention my experience because you said you even had those several days clean from the bupe.
4-8mg a day is probably right around the blocking dose, but it does stack up after daily use.
Still, I think it's odd if you didn't even feel the slightest tingle from them.
Were they normal pharma pressed & manufactured pills or did you get them from another source?

Yep -- they were directly from a pharmacy -- I don't trust anything that I don't know it's origin anymore with fent all over the place. I was very surprised because I've read people on here say after 24 or 48 hours they can feel something. And I took a lot in that 8 days thinking each day I'd for sure start feeling it. Might as well have just been taking Tylenol.

I was a little bummed because I'd like to be able to enjoy a hydro every once in awhile, and being prescribed bupe I felt like was a great situation to be able to enjoy it for a few days then go back on maintenance. I've taken Oxy after bupe before and I do feel that after a few days, but I don't like the way Oxy feels compared to Hydro; plus getting a high tolerance to Oxy can make Bupe take several days to work for withdrawals compared to Hydro which always works first try.

Or I guess I could be a good little patient and just take the bupe everyday like I'm supposed to. But as great a wonder drug it is I'd still like to be able to to enjoy a nice buzz periodically. Right now the only way I can do that is to take two days off of Bupe then re-start it -- I always get a decent Bupe buzz when I do that which I enjoy but it's still not as good as hydro.

 

[1tbps]

I've never felt sub withdrawals until this time after 8 days. I've gone off 7 days in a row before and never felt a thing, and that was when taking 4 to 8 mg daily. I was almost to the point of thinking maybe I wouldn't feel withdrawal from sub, but I definitely did on day 8 -- and that was after taking 6-8 hydros per day (in 2-3 doses throughout the day) for the last 6 of the 7 days.

The sub withdrawals weren't nearly like withdrawal from Oxy -- I could still function. But the stomach ache, mild sweating, and total lack of motivation to do anything were definitely there.

I take a 16th of an 8mg (i know, it's so small) and I still feel withdrawal around day 4. I'm trying to find that right dose to jump off. Good luck.

 

[BilboBaggins2]

I take a 16th of an 8mg (i know, it's so small) and I still feel withdrawal around day 4. I'm trying to find that right dose to jump off. Good luck.

From the reading I've done you're almost there. I've heard that last jump can take awhile so stay with it. It's amazing to me that one tiny snippet of a film can make such a big difference, and I don't believe you can get much smaller than 1/16th of that film can you?

I've read of people going from .5 mg (which would be 1/16th) to .25 mg before jumping so maybe one more step down for you, assuming it's possible. Otherwise maybe take that .5 and start spreading it out to every other day, then every third day, etc. That's how docs have had me come off of certain drugs to avoid withdrawal.

 

[BilboBaggins2]

Yeah I thought I'd mention my experience because you said you even had those several days clean from the bupe.
4-8mg a day is probably right around the blocking dose, but it does stack up after daily use.
Still, I think it's odd if you didn't even feel the slightest tingle from them.
Were they normal pharma pressed & manufactured pills or did you get them from another source?

Something I just thought of. Do you think the fact that I was taking 6 to 8 hydros a day might have prolonged the higher tolerance from the bupe? I was thinking about it and if the bupe tolerance is high, taking those hydros would at best keep the tolerance at the 6-8 hydros I was taking. So I'm wondering if it's a bad idea to keep taking hydros to try and feel something; that could just stifle the overall tolerance from coming down.

I'm not sure if that makes sense but the bottom line I'm thinking is it's best to take nothing for a week and let the tolerance drop, then try hydros. If I still don't feel them then, stop taking them and wait another few days then try again Vs. taking them every day like I was.

 

[BilboBaggins2]

It also sounds like the hydro didn’t even touch the sides so I wouldn’t worry much about precipitated WD. Maybe update us regardless if you can, for knowledge sake.

-GC

I forgot to leave an update: I had no recipitated WD at all. But I did feel a very strong bupe buzz.

So at that point:
6 hydros = nothing but feeling bupe WD
4 mg Bupe= very heavy bupe buzz.

Funny how a 60 mg. full agonist hydro had no affect, not even relieving bupe WD but 4 mg Bupe gave me a punch in the face buzz.

 

[BilboBaggins2]

I’m a bit confused, are we taking buprenorphine or sub tab mixes?

Does taking buprenorphine or fentanyl cause PW in people tolerant/dependent on Oxycodone?

I was taking Bupe-only (Subutex) tablets. I do have some 2 mg Suboxone strips with Naloxone, and I'm taking them now hoping that the Naloxone will help drop my tolerance and allow me to feel hydros next time.