Bupe Bupe- fent/heroin

[CruelBri]

Hey y’all been a member for who knows how long. Been on subutex for 7 years. Obviously switching from that to heroin and fent. I’m in a shitty situation. And need some help and guidance. My girl is in rehab. I chose to detox at home. Just seems like the subs are getting harder and harder to make me feel better.


So Friday at 10 pm did my last dose of heroin/fent. Saturday at about 12 pm I did 8 mg of sub. Got the sweats and felt horrible. Laid in my puddle of sweat. Took some clonidine and a Xanax bar. Fell asleep. Woke up. Took another 8 mg of subs woke up today (Sunday) took some more sub. Still got sweaty and felt like I had no energy. Ended up calling my Dope guy. Did a shot of dope. Didn’t get fucked up. But felt my energy back. I know I have subs in my system. And in the passed there was a fine line where if I had subs in my system. I could use dope and get high. And the next morning take my subs and be fine. If I took Dope too many days in a row then took a sub I’d go into withdrawal. This disease is so bad. It makes me cry. Knowing my life is like that. I make a decent wage 25/hr just have bad issues from being a kid. What I’m getting at is. Why is the subs not helping like they use too. Am I not waiting long enough. And why is the subs not giving me my energy back. I know two days isn’t exactly long to get my energy back. Another question is. Since I have subs in my system. And the dope isn’t really fucking me up. Just giving me some energy back. If I wake up tmmrw for work. And take a sub. I should still have it binded to my receptors and can take a sub in The morning. Right? And I guess if I get sick. Take a shot of dope? I love you all and I know we can get through this. It’s hard when your a lone. I question why I haven’t died yet and sometimes wish I would just die. Rather then deal with this bullshit.

 

[Quere]

Hey I was on subs for 3 years or so and like you it stopped making me feel well and I started craving again. So I started using opioids again and eventually switched to methadone and my life has been so so much better these last 3 years.

I feel like I really missed the high from 'real' opioids that made me feel better about my life and the sub just didn't give me that. The methadone gives me that full agonist effect that I missed.

I don't know if this is of any help but maybe methadone would hold you better/keep your cravings down?

 

[CruelBri]

thank you for your input and have been told that, but i heard its not like subutex/soboxone where you can get a prescription for 30 days... you gotta go every ffucking day!??!?!?!

 

[PodTea121]

thank you for your input and have been told that, but i heard its not like subutex/soboxone where you can get a prescription for 30 days... you gotta go every ffucking day!??!?!?!

Yeah, for methadone you need to go to the clinic every day..... after I believe 2 years of negative drug screens you can get a full 28 day take home.

Stopping at a clinic every day is a small price to pay to get your life back though....my problem when I was on methadone was I was using it to keep from getting sick....it didn't actually
stop my insanely high fent habit

 

[Quere]

thank you for your input and have been told that, but i heard its not like subutex/soboxone where you can get a prescription for 30 days... you gotta go every ffucking day!??!?!?!

Ah that depends on where you are.

Where I live I get a monthly script and go to my local pharmacy (not to the clinic) each week and pick up a weeks worth at a time. They do start you on daily pickups from the clinic here but you quickly move to a normal pharmacy once stabilised and build up takeaway doses over time until your like me and only pick up once a week.

How fast they increase your allowance of takeaway doses depends on various things but if you have a full time work they generally try to get you takeaways ASAP so it doesn't interfere with your job.

But I understand in the US (and maybe other places) they are a lot stricter, which is extremely stupid and results in a far less effective treatment and a lower quality of life for patients.

 

[Quere]

..my problem when I was on methadone was I was using it to keep from getting sick....it didn't actually
stop my insanely high fent habit

Using it to keep from getting sick isn't exactly the problem. After all not being in withdrawal all the time is certainly a predictor of good life outcomes haha.

It's more continuing to use other opioids alongside your methadone dose which is problematic, especially daily use.

It's totally fine to just reduce the frequency of your illicit opioid use for a start as that still gets you moving in a good direction.

Most people I've known have used other opioids on top, especially early on for a while but eventually stop or only use infrequently (like I do).

But man getting stuck with a methadone dependency while still retaining your fent habit, that sucks and I feel for ya

 

[abbylm23]

Methadone was the only thing that worked for me, I couldn't do it with subs, never quite made me feel well. Being chained to the clinic for the first year is not great but I am lucky mine is right around the corner from my job, if I go at 930 am I almost never have to wait and it has given me my life back. I also was coming off fent/dope and subs just didn't do it. Now I know a chick that detoxed fine with subs at rehab and had a bigger habit than me so it can be done its all about will power

 

[Quere]

Now I know a chick that detoxed fine with subs at rehab and had a bigger habit than me so it can be done its all about will power

I think it's more about personal physiological response to the drug than willpower. The idea that willpower is the most important part in quitting drugs is a fallacy that allows society to treat addicts like weak willed and/or morally corrupt people.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

^Is that the line the site is towing? Because I disagree, without a tremendous amount of will power no program in the world can help. Charity starts at home, so does the decision to really quit. IMO of course, no confrontation or anything meant.

 

[mostly-human]

You just have to give them time, I had the same issue, my first couple transitions to bupe were pretty smooth and fairly quick, but as my habit got worse, it got a LOT harder to switch to subs. Ultimately, it would take me a week(ish) to actually make the jump and finally start feeling reasonable on the subs.

 

[duracell]

I'm in the same boat as u i dont even feel any releif from the subutex, it used to work but I abused opiates while taking the subs and then waited a full 24 hours to take my sub and notice no effect. but I found a miracle try trazadone I think the subs hold me all day not even sure there doing anything at this point. but I can he in full WD and take 100 mg trazadone and about an hour later I am totally back to feeling 100% give it a try I bet u will feel better

 

[Quere]

^Is that the line the site is towing? Because I disagree, without a tremendous amount of will power no program in the world can help. Charity starts at home, so does the decision to really quit. IMO of course, no confrontation or anything meant.

What I mean is that the fact that one person can quit heroin on suboxone while the other person can't and requires methadone is more likely because of physiological circumstances that make one person more responsive to suboxone (i.e it is more effective in holding them/reducing cravings) than the person who needs methadone rather than the former having more willpower.

And of course you do need, for lack of a better word, willpower, but I don't look at a consistently relapsing addict and say "oh he just needs to be more determined and have more willpower!" I would focus on what social and emotional problems are sabotaging his recovery, rather than finding fault with something as abstract as willpower that he has no ability to change.

And these are just my opinions, not the line the site is towing.

 

[abbylm23]

I think it's more about personal physiological response to the drug than willpower. The idea that willpower is the most important part in quitting drugs is a fallacy that allows society to treat addicts like weak willed and/or morally corrupt people.

Maybe will power wasn't the best term. I know in my experience I was more successful getting off a drug when I wanted to get off of it. Opposed to being asked to get off or made to quit. Plus I do believe that you can will things to happen. Your mindset and desire to do something can really help you do it.

 

[Quere]

Maybe will power wasn't the best term. I know in my experience I was more successful getting off a drug when I wanted to get off of it. Opposed to being asked to get off or made to quit. Plus I do believe that you can will things to happen. Your mindset and desire to do something can really help you do it.

Of course, but that's more about having motivating factors/reasons In your life to quit using than willpower. I think willpower is kind of an inherently judgemental term (if someone doesn't have the 'willpower' to quit using then what are they? Weak willed? I don't buy that as a reason why someone fails to quit. More likely that person has a much more severe emotional response to quitting drugs/has more severe emotional responses in general or lacks anything positive in their life to draw them away from using)

 

[abbylm23]

Of course, but that's more about having motivating factors/reasons In your life to quit using than willpower. I think willpower is kind of an inherently judgemental term (if someone doesn't have the 'willpower' to quit using then what are they? Weak willed? I don't buy that as a reason why someone fails to quit. More likely that person has a much more severe emotional response to quitting drugs/has more severe emotional responses in general or lacks anything positive in their life to draw them away from using)

I see what you are saying. I don't think that is always the case. I had a good life, children and a job, lots of reasons why I shouldn't be a heroin addict. The drug just took ahold of me. I wanted it so bad, I wanted to feel that good opiate feeling and I didn't want to be sick and I didn't want to go without the drug. The second time around I caught myself before I lost everything, and I got on MMT. Quitting drugs takes effort, you have to try hard to not relapse and to not use. It is a daily thing. And I never felt more weak than when I was using. I feel much stronger now and much more proud of myself. Feels like will power to me. I am not saying everyone who uses is weak minded, we all know it is a chemical thing in your body that makes you want the drug. But it is a mental thing that makes you want to recover from that.