Books on Illicit Drug Manufacturing

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Bluelighter
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Jun 20, 2004
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I'm asking about this because I'm trying to make sense of how far the War on Drugs and our judcial system is permitted to act in conflict or our free speech rights.

I've read stories, on another (unmentionable) web site, describing people being arrested and convicted for simply describing the chemistry which goes into drug manufacturing over the telephone.

Then, I recently came across several books on Amazon which claims that they contain methods used to produce Schedule I compounds. One even was even titled "Secrets of Methamphetamine Manufacture." 8o

What I don't understand is, how is it possible for these books to be available if someone can be arrested and jailed for simply describing a chemical process? (Or at least was the claim I've read elsewhere.)

Even more curious, what do the Feds do about people buying these books from places like Amazon? Can they legally monitor such sales of books and place the buyer on some kind of watch list?

This whole thing sounds like a potential First Amendment powder keg.


Thanks in advance
 
My assumption would be having and obtaining the knowledge is not illegal, but intent to manufacture is. The person on the phone, if could be proved that he was detailing the chemical process for someone to produce it, would be violating the law.
But like I said, this is just an assumption, someone else may be able to clarify.
 
I know that the literature itsself is not illegal at all, as even the DEA has put out multiple papers reguarding processes and such that could be considered teaching to manufacture...I remember seeing a couple on the big synth archive from that unmentionable site...

But if it can be proved that you were helping someone who actually wanted to create the substance, if something explicit was said over the phone, or something to say that you've done it before, then that could probably be considered accessory to manufacture or something or other.
 
and if you happen to order such a book, as well as a ton of random industrial supply materials, you can be damned sure you'll have a couple men in suits on your doorstep a few hours after the packages arrive ;)
 
Knowledge is not illegal. Instructing someone how to commit a crime over the phone who you know or reasonably should know is going to use this information to commit a crime is illegal.

With a book, you have no control and no knowledge what people will do after reading it. Most people who read books on drug synthesis will never even attempt this. I have many books which detail methods of organic synthesis of drugs (PiHKAL, TiHKAL and others), both legal and illegal. These books, and the knowledge that they contain are not illegal. I have no intention now or anytime in the future of making any drugs, legal or otherwise. I'm merely interested in the chemistry behind this. The makers of the books have no control over what I do with the knowledge once they give it away. The books reach a wide audience, and again the authors have no idea or control over what happens with this information. The knowledge is not illegal, but what you do with it could be.

Compare this to a person who instructs someone over the phone how to make methamphetamine. Anyone who does this probably should know that their knowledge may be used to commit a crime. The difference here is that a reasonable person should know that someone asking them for a step by step explanation of how to make meth over the telephone most likely intends to make meth.


X
 
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What If that reasonable person was dictating the step by step instrustructions from the same book over the telephone.
 
maassive said:
What If that reasonable person was dictating the step by step instrustructions from the same book over the telephone.
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What information you transfer to another person is irrelevant, its what you know they intend to do with it. If you're reading a meth manufacture book to a person over the phone, it can be reasonably assumed that it was for him to manufacture it.
 
it all depends on the conversation, it is possible for the two people to be LEGALLY discussing chemistry, and using the synth of meth as an example.

Now, if someone called up and said "yo i got the (insert chemical here) what do I do with the (insert chem) to make it..." you guys get the point, theres a big difference in discussing chemistry and instructing someone to make meth, and if the person is wiretapped, then the feds would be able to easily figure out which it is.
 
Yup, the information is freely available, you can even go to a library and read up on how to make bombs including nuclear ones! However if you as much as H I N T of doing something illegal, then they got you.

Anyone ordering books like that ONLINE is asking for trouble IMO, as this is the easiest way to monitor who/where bought them.

As far as legality of DEA monitoring people who buy these books, I don't know, I doubt we'll never find out.
 
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Yea and checking out those books from the library is being monitored now thanks to the Patriot Act!
 
Thanks everyone!

This pretty much confirms what I thought, I just wasn't sure if there had been any changes to the laws that would have made my model dated.

Some of the proposed laws, that are currently pending, appear to intend on placing a much higher degree of restriction on the availability of such information. Some of the critiques I've read about them even suggest that, if they ever go into effect, even the very mention that marijuana is planted in the soil could be a serious violation.

And other references that I've read suggest that this is not just a notion taking place in the US, but that their is a lot of support at the UN for this level of restriction.

Of course, talk is one this, and in many cases like this it is very difficult to get the UN to agree on anything. But it's still a rather sobering thought to consider that such notions are discussed in so broad a context. :(
 
Adam X said:
Knowledge is not illegal. Instructing someone how to commit a crime over the phone who you know or reasonably should know is going to use this information to commit a crime is illegal.

With a book, you have no control and no knowledge what people will do after reading it. Most people who read books on drug synthesis will never even attempt this. I have many books which detail methods of organic synthesis of drugs (PiHKAL, TiHKAL and others), both legal and illegal. These books, and the knowledge that they contain are not illegal. I have no intention now or anytime in the future of making any drugs, legal or otherwise. I'm merely interested in the chemistry behind this. The makers of the books have no control over what I do with the knowledge once they give it away. The books reach a wide audience, and again the authors have no idea or control over what happens with this information. The knowledge is not illegal, but what you do with it could be.

Compare this to a person who instructs someone over the phone how to make methamphetamine. Anyone who does this probably should know that their knowledge may be used to commit a crime. The difference here is that a reasonable person should know that someone asking them for a step by step explanation of how to make meth over the telephone most likely intends to make meth.


X
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Do you have case law to support your statements?

What about the criminal offense of "conspiracy"? Someone instructing another, via the phone, is not Federal "conspiracy"?
 
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