Benzodiazepines-Alternative medications

[MaroonBlue]

Hey friends, I was wondering if you guys knew of any extremely potent medications that are just as effective or preferably more effective at treating crippling anxiety. These can be controlled substances, non controlled substances, alternative medicine/supplements, or what have you. I'm currently taking .5 mg of klonopin and it's nowhere near enough and I'm scared to death of running out since I have major anxiety and co-morbid depressive disorder so any help at all would be appreciated! Thank you guys.

 

[Bmwm8]

im not sure how you do on muscle relaxers like Soma aka Carisprodol? I find those work for me. Gabapentin or its sister which im drawing a name blank of. Opiates though I dont reccomend anyone go down that rd because they are the damn devil. Ketamine helps w my depression. As do mushrooms. I go to a shamans about 4-6x year. I cant believe how much it honestly helped w my anxiety and depression. It went from a 9 to a 2 in one session along w therapy 1x wk.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

is the obvious answer not barbituates? Good luck findin em and please keep yourself alive. If you thought benzos opis and alc were the triangle of death; well I'll go that road all day before barbs and drinks (safety wise at least).

Soma feels good but does jack all for anxiety; well maybe a little as being high on anything does. Shoot gabapentin is the one I remember too, brand names neurontin and lyrica. Lyrica is alot stronger mg for mg and in general effects; when I take lyrica it feels like im drunk and on a small amount of speed. (in other words eckh, no attention span, can't enjoy ish, feel the need to 'accomplish' *last thing I want in a high, "get me fucked up and in public please! nah.)

The real life answer is going to be a much larger dose of benzos. I have known people scripted up to 16 mg of xanax/klonopin a day.....

I would venture that your doc is trying .5 out to see how YOU react to it. 2 mg a day is about the average benzo script (for those that have them in my area). You could bounce from benzo to benzo and I reccomend temazepam brand name restoril. I ended up trading my temaz script in for klonopin after the pharmacy thought I forged a script. (totally legit straight from doc I sware)....he jumped down there throats when they called him and I got my meds.....I dont like being accused of prescription forgery though lol.

*edit* If you have to go outside of your doctor and are good with computers bromazolam seems to be widely available. (I have never tried it but alot of bunk xanax bars that never get called bunk are now bromaz)

 

[cdin]

so, i can only reflect my own experience. i was burned in a fire, 3rd degree, developed major clinical PTSD, also have GAD, my own course through this shit has been long, and difficult. I tried for many years medicating with ethanol, benzos etc. --- my experience is that i could not really take enough of any GABA agent to siufficiently medicate my symptoms (let alone the fact that in the US at least, people are being thrown systemically off of long term benzo rxes. they are coming after them as they did opioids 8 years ago. My mom is currently in process of being thrown off a 30+ year benzo Rx, ive had to do support for countless people across the country dealin w that shit) - and in fact that attempting to medicate the symptoms of the anxiety both kept me from pursuing some other solutions, and made my anxiety worse and worse as the GABA PAM agents did progressive damage to my GABA systems.

I was terrified when i was ordered off the benzos as well. What I have found though, is that it truly was keeping me from reaching deeper resolution on the anxiety issues, and making them worse over time. Since then, althought the withdrawal was crippling, I am glad i got a long taper/was able to take care of it in a reasonable way instead of been thrown off without time to deal with the taper. I have found that workin w therapists that i could actually work with (took me like 12 people to find people ACTUALLY versed in severe anxiety and trauma recovery) - CBT, EMDR and a few other treatment modalities really helped me towards resolution. Ibogaine was integral in repairing the PTSD/TBI damage. but long story short - i found no relief long term in the GABA agents, and indeed now for my life, I can see how treating the symptoms of anxiety was not handling shit. I really had to find ways to address my underlying issues to find good relief.


Outside of that, modifying diet, really increasing exercise, and getting my GABA receptors healed is what actually helped. Also I have found non-damaging relief in kava kava and amanita (the muscimol specifically) if i need help and don't want to damage my brain further. Also propranolol I find AMAZING for dealing w the physical side of my anxiety. which really assists me in using actual coping tools for dealing w the mental part,

Either way, I know this is a super personal journey, and I hope you get some resolution fr.

 

[negrogesic]

so, i can only reflect my own experience. i was burned in a fire, 3rd degree, developed major clinical PTSD, also have GAD, my own course through this shit has been long, and difficult. I tried for many years medicating with ethanol, benzos etc. --- my experience is that i could not really take enough of any GABA agent to siufficiently medicate my symptoms (let alone the fact that in the US at least, people are being thrown systemically off of long term benzo rxes. they are coming after them as they did opioids 8 years ago. My mom is currently in process of being thrown off a 30+ year benzo Rx, ive had to do support for countless people across the country dealin w that shit) - and in fact that attempting to medicate the symptoms of the anxiety both kept me from pursuing some other solutions, and made my anxiety worse and worse as the GABA PAM agents did progressive damage to my GABA systems.

I was terrified when i was ordered off the benzos as well. What I have found though, is that it truly was keeping me from reaching deeper resolution on the anxiety issues, and making them worse over time. Since then, althought the withdrawal was crippling, I am glad i got a long taper/was able to take care of it in a reasonable way instead of been thrown off without time to deal with the taper. I have found that workin w therapists that i could actually work with (took me like 12 people to find people ACTUALLY versed in severe anxiety and trauma recovery) - CBT, EMDR and a few other treatment modalities really helped me towards resolution. Ibogaine was integral in repairing the PTSD/TBI damage. but long story short - i found no relief long term in the GABA agents, and indeed now for my life, I can see how treating the symptoms of anxiety was not handling shit. I really had to find ways to address my underlying issues to find good relief.


Outside of that, modifying diet, really increasing exercise, and getting my GABA receptors healed is what actually helped. Also I have found non-damaging relief in kava kava and amanita (the muscimol specifically) if i need help and don't want to damage my brain further. Also propranolol I find AMAZING for dealing w the physical side of my anxiety. which really assists me in using actual coping tools for dealing w the mental part,

Either way, I know this is a super personal journey, and I hope you get some resolution fr.

You ever considered flumazenil treatment as a means of restoring GABA-A function? I would try it if it were more accessible in the US. Flumazenil is hard to find but I could probably find it (though I believe it must be administered parenterally)

 

[MaroonBlue]

Thank you all for your input and I’m really sorry to hear about your condition Cdin… I hope things get better for you. Also I am very well aware of the absolutely horrific side effects of benzo addiction/abuse/withdrawal. I tend to maintain that it’s not the drug itself that’s the problem, it’s the individuals relationship to the drug. Trauma is usually a prerequisite for addiction sadly. Do you guys think there’s any chance my doctor would prescribe Soma for my pain or would petaling be a better choice? Opioids are out of the question due to the recent DEA restrictions on prescribing opioids and benzodiazepines together.

 

[MaroonBlue]

You ever considered flumazenil treatment as a means of restoring GABA-A function? I would try it if it were more accessible in the US. Flumazenil is hard to find but I could probably find it (though I believe it must be administered parenterally)

I haven’t though of that but I’ll bring it up to my doctor!

 

[negrogesic]

I haven’t though of that but I’ll bring it up to my doctor!

If you're in the US, bringing it up won't do much good. Because it hasn't gained traction here (in the US we tend to take a punitive stance on drug dependency, rather than an ameliorative one).

But it might be promising a means to improve GABA-A receptor function after years of down regulation. Unfortunately, it needs to be done in a hospital setting due to the tricky nature of flumazenil. But not only will insurance refuse to pay for such an unusual treatment, even if you did pay cash for it, good look trying to find an American physician willing to administer such a treatment:

Here is perhaps the best overview:

Benzodiazepine dependence and its treatment with low dose flumazenil

Globally benzodiazepines remain one of the most prescribed medication groups, especially in the primary care setting. With such high levels of prescribing it is not surprising that benzodiazepine dependence is common, cutting across all socioeconomic ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311552804_Flumazenil_in_treatment_benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome_Case_report

Frontiers | Addiction of High Dose of Benzodiazepine: Verona Detox Approach With Flumazenil

IntroductionSince the 1990s there has been evidence of the significant role Flumazenil (FLU) has in benzodiazepines (BZD) detoxes. The Verona Detox approach ...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Not stronger or more effective in the beginning. But Benzo tolerance raises pretty fast I noticed myself, so eventually you feel nothing if the dose stay's the same.
The herbal alternative's next to the two mentioned. that are sadly not easy available to me. Another rare find is a good fresh Valerian root tincture which contain's Valerenic acid. A GABA-a agonist. That's something you could look for.

What was available and might usefull are GABA-t inhibitor's. Herb's like Lemon Balm, Passiflora Incarnata. Or Erythrina Mulungu bark, different mechanism but still useful, ao a powerful anti-convulsant (again on paper).

Some with which I have little to no personal experience. Bacopa Monnieri (check for top biologically grown quality with this swamp plant) or grow your own, Holy Basil/ Ocimum Tenuiflorum, Ashwhaganda/ Whithania Somniferrum.
No personal experience but Magnolia bark is a GABA-a agonist according to one little mention in an outdated medicin plant book. L-Theanine sounds good but is way to expensive over here.

All are in extract form except the Mulungu, but none has the direct effect like Benzodiazepinen, Alcohol, Barbiturate's or GHB have. But they are also non addictive and have a broad spectrum of other beneficial effect's while bearing no side effect's. Some we would consider recreational and other's that are actually harmful. These Herb's are subtle and with some you'ĺl need patience.

What I don't know if they would substitute for a Benzo in a situation like sudden WD-ing. On paper yes, but in real life, I wouldn't risk it.
Not gonna advice you stronger chemical alternative's, as that would just be trading addiction's. A barbiturate imo in particular is not a suitable replacement, its a step further into the pit. Might aswell add Alcohol to that, one of the most dangerous drug's.

 

[Dextro .45]

Hey friends, I was wondering if you guys knew of any extremely potent medications that are just as effective or preferably more effective at treating crippling anxiety. These can be controlled substances, non controlled substances, alternative medicine/supplements, or what have you. I'm currently taking .5 mg of klonopin and it's nowhere near enough and I'm scared to death of running out since I have major anxiety and co-morbid depressive disorder so any help at all would be appreciated! Thank you guys.

Clonidine 0.1mg tablets. VERY potent & effective anxiolytic/sedative medication

not a controlled substance, any doc will/can write a script. Keep it on your carry on invalid legal bottle from pharmacy. Generally a blood pressure med, it’s an alpha-adrenic receptor antagonist, reducing Norepinephrine in the CNS

it reduces BP & HP along with Robust anxiolytic & sedative properties

just a single Clonidine 0.1mg scored tablet will have full onset in 30min on an empty stomach, tall glass of water, 1h peak serum levels ……can EASILY go head to head against Valium or Xanax as an anxiolytic compound

 

[WellTram]

I am scared to write this but stimulants + low dose opioids or muscle relaxants are very good for anxiety...but it's not exactly harm reduction

 

[Jen X]

When my anxiety gets bad instead of taking more of my prescribed clonzepam I take 0.1 mg of clonidine. It really helps.

 

[happyone]

Hey friends, I was wondering if you guys knew of any extremely potent medications that are just as effective or preferably more effective at treating crippling anxiety. These can be controlled substances, non controlled substances, alternative medicine/supplements, or what have you. I'm currently taking .5 mg of klonopin and it's nowhere near enough and I'm scared to death of running out since I have major anxiety and co-morbid depressive disorder so any help at all would be appreciated! Thank you guys.

i'm in the same boat you are in. I am currently taking .5 lorazepam . I get 60 for a month. this is for my body almost nothing as i was on 1mg o f clonazepam 3x/day. my dr. psychiatrist is going to want me off of even the lorazepam down the road. i also have treatment resistent depression and hv been on sooo many ssri snri and now even ivket. So i am in the same search you are. This is very difficult. ty for posting. happy one

 

[Keif' Richards]

Benzodiazepines are absolutely not a chronic treatment for anxiety. They are not to be used for longer than 2-4 weeks if taken on a daily basis. The reasons for these guidelines are myriad, though suffice it to say that the drugs do not produce the same benefit in chronic settings as they do in acute settings.

Please, do not go any further down the path of chronic Benzodiazepine usage. I understand you're here specifically requesting alternatives. Still, I never miss an opportunity to make this point. Benzodiazepines are misprescribed to an enormous extent. The consequences of these chronic prescriptions/dependencies are often life-crippling. If you intend to keep Benzodiazepines in your wheelhouse long-term, then the only way that you can do this is by using them for specifically severe moments of anxiety, like two doses a week at most. Any more than this and you are seriously risking falling in to the "event horizon" of Benzodiazepine dependency.

If you are asking me to recommend an effective sedative that can be used long-term without serious consequence, my answer will always be Clonidine (Catapres). Clonidine is an anti-hypertensive drug, though these same effects make it an effective sedative for many people, myse;lf included. If I am ever experiencing significant stress, I find a dose of Clonidine can really help me collect myself.

I really find that Clonidine occupies the sweet spot between efficacy and risk. It is essentially non-psychoactive and not liable to addiction in the same way that Benzodiazepines are. The only requirement for getting off is a short taper. I believe Clonidine is entirely under-utilized in the field of psychiatry. I really feel that Clonidine should be tried before someone is ever prescribed a Benzodiazepine. If you want more information or advice, just let me know.

 

[happyone]

Benzodiazepines are absolutely not a chronic treatment for anxiety. They are not to be used for longer than 2-4 weeks if taken on a daily basis. The reasons for these guidelines are myriad, though suffice it to say that the drugs do not produce the same benefit in chronic settings as they do in acute settings.

Please, do not go any further down the path of chronic Benzodiazepine usage. I understand you're here specifically requesting alternatives. Still, I never miss an opportunity to make this point. Benzodiazepines are misprescribed to an enormous extent. The consequences of these chronic prescriptions/dependencies are often life-crippling. If you intend to keep Benzodiazepines in your wheelhouse long-term, then the only way that you can do this is by using them for specifically severe moments of anxiety, like two doses a week at most. Any more than this and you are seriously risking falling in to the "event horizon" of Benzodiazepine dependency.

If you are asking me to recommend an effective sedative that can be used long-term without serious consequence, my answer will always be Clonidine (Catapres). Clonidine is an anti-hypertensive drug, though these same effects make it an effective sedative for many people, myse;lf included. If I am ever experiencing significant stress, I find a dose of Clonidine can really help me collect myself.

I really find that Clonidine occupies the sweet spot between efficacy and risk. It is essentially non-psychoactive and not liable to addiction in the same way that Benzodiazepines are. The only requirement for getting off is a short taper. I believe Clonidine is entirely under-utilized in the field of psychiatry. I really feel that Clonidine should be tried before someone is ever prescribed a Benzodiazepine. If you want more information or advice, just let me know.

Hello,
i am writing to comment on your post, as well as share my own experience with Benzodiazepines. which unfortunately at this point, is long.
i am 64 F. my first script of benzo's came as 1 mg Clonazepam, 3x a day. i stayed on this for many yrs following the death of my spouse and all the events tht came with it. loss of home, loss of employ and more. my now retired pcp started me here, and kept filling my script for three steady yrs. no problem. i had myself whittled down to just one a day, at night, because i knew threats of early dementia, just to name one. i agree with you as to their limited use. however, i am beyond that.
i am writing this very scared, several years have passed. my new psychiatrist has been continuing me with only 2, .25 Lorazepam a day. That's been going on for about a year. now he is really clamping down. i recvd an email yesterday, informing me that he is refilling me this month, but with less than the 60 i usually receive. i am in usa. he wants me OFF. entirely. so will reduce, each mnth, by 10 pills. i had a panic attack last month, at home. terrible. called ambulance and all the embarassing ordeal of being carried from my home via stretcher to hospital. where i recvd 10 .25 lorazepam from ER dr. It is true the War on Benzo's seems to hv replaced or usurped the War on Opiods.
I am already in a tither know i have to get off the 2 , .25 daily Lorazepam. edgy, upset, anxious, crying. all of it.
i am not sure what to do. suggest Clonidine? my psych actually said in his email that he could, if i want, DETOX me now at home. wth? i'm only on 2 baby lorazepam, ive been on so much more. i dont use drugs recreationally, or drink. period. he knows that. so why the sudden crackdown? i hv an appt. tomorrow with him. i hv to go into it calmly, not crying. i'm dealing with ptsd, treatment resistant depression and anxiety.
I hope you hv some words of wisdom, experience, and what- the- heck -do- i do- now - Answer, for me. please. this is terrible.
sorry so long. i hope someone reads it and replies. thank you so much.
(Not) Happy One

 

[happyone]

Hey friends, I was wondering if you guys knew of any extremely potent medications that are just as effective or preferably more effective at treating crippling anxiety. These can be controlled substances, non controlled substances, alternative medicine/supplements, or what have you. I'm currently taking .5 mg of klonopin and it's nowhere near enough and I'm scared to death of running out since I have major anxiety and co-morbid depressive disorder so any help at all would be appreciated! Thank you guys.

Did you ever find an answer to this question. i am in the same situation. my psych advised me via email is will now be weaning me off my Lorazepams, which i only get two, .25 mg , ones a day. so i'm searching for what to do. can i ask what you've found out? i've read all the Responses to your initial post here. Clonidine seems to be the answer? I do not do recreational drugs or drink. and no kratom. what else?
i'm panicky too. already. this is bad. pls help. i'm in usa.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @happyone I'm writing the rest, I just wanted you to stay on long enough to read it!

I totally understand your situation. It is not uncommon. I have a Grandmother who is currently ~83 and she has dementia and potentially parkinson's disease. My Grandfather died ~20 years ago and the experience broke my Grandmother so badly that she never really recovered to who she was.

After my Grandfather's death, one of the things they did for my Grandmother was prescribe her Lorazepam (Ativan) among other stuff, like an SSRI I believe. My Grandmother was a teetotaler. She would drink a glass of wine if you insisted she simply had to try it, but otherwise, she didn't even like cigarettes. Well, it turns out that my Grandma "responded well" to the Lorazepam. She ended up with the classic "infinity prescription" that some people get. She was on Lorazepam and also Alprazolam (Xanax) at times for 15-20 years straight. Her physician (a small, rural town in southern Illinois) retired and her new doc was young and ready to right the wrongs of his predecessors. My Grandmother's Lorazepam had to go apparently. No consideration was given to her health, age or anything else.

Side Note: I believe folks who are older and becoming free of their earthly responsibilities like work, parenting etc. should be able to take whatever the fuck they want. Their race is over and they just want to enjoy the last part of their lives.

My Grandmother had not been aware of how badly she was dependent on the medication. The Benzodiazepine withdrawal reduced her to the state of an infant, screaming, crying, pissing herself, begging for medication and then sometimes sleeping for 5-10 minutes at a time. I was desperately trying to get her help. She once went to the local hospital. They were sympathetic and gave her a few days worth of medicine, though we were still right back where we started.

Moral of the story, my Grandmother was put on a medication without having any knowledge whatsoever of the dangers/risks. She was maintained on this medication for decades without issue. The medication was then violently ripped away, sending my dear Grandma into a living hell that still brings tears to my eyes when I imagine how she looked during the withdrawal; how she would beg me like a starving orphan to find her something to make it stop. The doctors generally do not care and any kind of blame for the issues of dependence/tolerance are easily pushed onto the shoulders or the patients. Maybe they didn't use it right? Maybe they liked it too much? Maybe it's the fault of big pharma? Whatever it is, you sure as shit know that the prescribing doctor is not at fault in any way, in any practice, in any universe.

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I truly understand and that I have your back in this. I know it's difficult and terrible. Just know that there are people like me in front of their computers right now who care about you and your situation. We are here to help people like you because we love helping people. We put all of our drug escapades to good use here. Hopefully we can give you some advice and peace of mind.

Clonidine

This is essentially a medication to lower blood pressure. This effect seems to produce a feedback loop between the body and mind in that the mind feels the body relaxing, tension releasing and in turn, this convinces your mind that you are feeling less stressed. This is the best way I can describe it.

You are aware, I'm sure, of the feeling of incredible tension, heart palpitations/rapid heart rate, a sense of impending doom and an overwhelming urge to move your legs. Clonidine really shines in taking the sharp edges off of these symptoms. You will feel much less keyed up, anxious and/or nervous.

Likewise, Clonidine is a very useful sleep aid, not just for your situation, I feel it's a great choice for lots of people. I still use it to this day when I'm having trouble sleeping the same way a person might pop an antihistamine to get to sleep. It works great and the side effects are minimal if at all present. For someone in withdrawal like yourself, this is likely going to be 0.1mg -0.2mg Clonidine either 2 or 3 times per day. In my case, I found I felt better using a lower dose during the day, but would take a larger dose in the evening to induce sleep.

Gabapentin

Trade name Neurontin. I'm sure you've heard of this stuff. It's a drug I commonly recommend to folks in Opioid withdrawal. Its effectiveness in treating these symptoms is uncontested in our world and it along with Clonidine are the dynamic duo of withdrawal medications. If nothing else is available, I tell people these two together can make it work. It's also effective for withdrawal from sedative/hypnotics like Benzo's and Alcohol, though I have less experience with its use for this purpose.

Gabapentin will help a lot with those feelings of tension also. It's greatest effect IMO is the reduction of Restless Legs Syndrome. It can neutralize that urge to move and allow you to get some sleep. Not only that, Gabapentin has been shown to increase the "value", if you will, of sleep. Folks who take Gabapentin have been shown to get proportionately more out of their sleep if you can believe that. I can personally attest to this effect. Assuming that you're currently not getting the sleep you really want, it could be really helpful.

During the day, it also can help with the psycological stuff. It can give you some motivation, a little bit of energy and just generally make things easier for you during your withdrawal. If I were you, I would start with something like 300mg Gabapentin 3x per day, though this can be increased or decreased.

These are rational drugs for you and your situation. If you have any questions, you know where to find us. We will be there for you in any way that we possibly can. I know how scary everything feels when you're going through this. Just know that you have some friends who aren't going to let you go through this alone. You also won't be the first person we help figure all of this out. It's all possible and you're more than capable of making it happen. I'll talk to you soon!

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

The manufacturers of clonidine really need to start writing me checks for the free advertising I do

Clonidine changed my life. Its 100% a "taper off of it" medication but it doesn't seem to have the incredibly destructive curve of diminishing returns benzos do. But the first time I used clonidine it erased my anxiety to a degree I have never experienced in my life, far better than any benzo.

 

[happyone]

Hey @happyone I'm writing the rest, I just wanted you to stay on long enough to read it!

I totally understand your situation. It is not uncommon. I have a Grandmother who is currently ~83 and she has dementia and potentially parkinson's disease. My Grandfather died ~20 years ago and the experience broke my Grandmother so badly that she never really recovered to who she was.

After my Grandfather's death, one of the things they did for my Grandmother was prescribe her Lorazepam (Ativan) among other stuff, like an SSRI I believe. My Grandmother was a teetotaler. She would drink a glass of wine if you insisted she simply had to try it, but otherwise, she didn't even like cigarettes. Well, it turns out that my Grandma "responded well" to the Lorazepam. She ended up with the classic "infinity prescription" that some people get. She was on Lorazepam and also Alprazolam (Xanax) at times for 15-20 years straight. Her physician (a small, rural town in southern Illinois) retired and her new doc was young and ready to right the wrongs of his predecessors. My Grandmother's Lorazepam had to go apparently. No consideration was given to her health, age or anything else.

Side Note: I believe folks who are older and becoming free of their earthly responsibilities like work, parenting etc. should be able to take whatever the fuck they want. Their race is over and they just want to enjoy the last part of their lives.

My Grandmother had not been aware of how badly she was dependent on the medication. The Benzodiazepine withdrawal reduced her to the state of an infant, screaming, crying, pissing herself, begging for medication and then sometimes sleeping for 5-10 minutes at a time. I was desperately trying to get her help. She once went to the local hospital. They were sympathetic and gave her a few days worth of medicine, though we were still right back where we started.

Moral of the story, my Grandmother was put on a medication without having any knowledge whatsoever of the dangers/risks. She was maintained on this medication for decades without issue. The medication was then violently ripped away, sending my dear Grandma into a living hell that still brings tears to my eyes when I imagine how she looked during the withdrawal; how she would beg me like a starving orphan to find her something to make it stop. The doctors generally do not care and any kind of blame for the issues of dependence/tolerance are easily pushed onto the shoulders or the patients. Maybe they didn't use it right? Maybe they liked it too much? Maybe it's the fault of big pharma? Whatever it is, you sure as shit know that the prescribing doctor is not at fault in any way, in any practice, in any universe.

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I truly understand and that I have your back in this. I know it's difficult and terrible. Just know that there are people like me in front of their computers right now who care about you and your situation. We are here to help people like you because we love helping people. We put all of our drug escapades to good use here. Hopefully we can give you some advice and peace of mind.

Clonidine

This is essentially a medication to lower blood pressure. This effect seems to produce a feedback loop between the body and mind in that the mind feels the body relaxing, tension releasing and in turn, this convinces your mind that you are feeling less stressed. This is the best way I can describe it.

You are aware, I'm sure, of the feeling of incredible tension, heart palpitations/rapid heart rate, a sense of impending doom and an overwhelming urge to move your legs. Clonidine really shines in taking the sharp edges off of these symptoms. You will feel much less keyed up, anxious and/or nervous.

Likewise, Clonidine is a very useful sleep aid, not just for your situation, I feel it's a great choice for lots of people. I still use it to this day when I'm having trouble sleeping the same way a person might pop an antihistamine to get to sleep. It works great and the side effects are minimal if at all present. For someone in withdrawal like yourself, this is likely going to be 0.1mg -0.2mg Clonidine either 2 or 3 times per day. In my case, I found I felt better using a lower dose during the day, but would take a larger dose in the evening to induce sleep.

Gabapentin

Trade name Neurontin. I'm sure you've heard of this stuff. It's a drug I commonly recommend to folks in Opioid withdrawal. Its effectiveness in treating these symptoms is uncontested in our world and it along with Clonidine are the dynamic duo of withdrawal medications. If nothing else is available, I tell people these two together can make it work. It's also effective for withdrawal from sedative/hypnotics like Benzo's and Alcohol, though I have less experience with its use for this purpose.

Gabapentin will help a lot with those feelings of tension also. It's greatest effect IMO is the reduction of Restless Legs Syndrome. It can neutralize that urge to move and allow you to get some sleep. Not only that, Gabapentin has been shown to increase the "value", if you will, of sleep. Folks who take Gabapentin have been shown to get proportionately more out of their sleep if you can believe that. I can personally attest to this effect. Assuming that you're currently not getting the sleep you really want, it could be really helpful.

During the day, it also can help with the psycological stuff. It can give you some motivation, a little bit of energy and just generally make things easier for you during your withdrawal. If I were you, I would start with something like 300mg Gabapentin 3x per day, though this can be increased or decreased.

These are rational drugs for you and your situation. If you have any questions, you know where to find us. We will be there for you in any way that we possibly can. I know how scary everything feels when you're going through this. Just know that you have some friends who aren't going to let you go through this alone. You also won't be the first person we help figure all of this out. It's all possible and you're more than capable of making it happen. I'll talk to you soon!

Hey @happyone I'm writing the rest, I just wanted you to stay on long enough to read it!

I totally understand your situation. It is not uncommon. I have a Grandmother who is currently ~83 and she has dementia and potentially parkinson's disease. My Grandfather died ~20 years ago and the experience broke my Grandmother so badly that she never really recovered to who she was.

After my Grandfather's death, one of the things they did for my Grandmother was prescribe her Lorazepam (Ativan) among other stuff, like an SSRI I believe. My Grandmother was a teetotaler. She would drink a glass of wine if you insisted she simply had to try it, but otherwise, she didn't even like cigarettes. Well, it turns out that my Grandma "responded well" to the Lorazepam. She ended up with the classic "infinity prescription" that some people get. She was on Lorazepam and also Alprazolam (Xanax) at times for 15-20 years straight. Her physician (a small, rural town in southern Illinois) retired and her new doc was young and ready to right the wrongs of his predecessors. My Grandmother's Lorazepam had to go apparently. No consideration was given to her health, age or anything else.

Side Note: I believe folks who are older and becoming free of their earthly responsibilities like work, parenting etc. should be able to take whatever the fuck they want. Their race is over and they just want to enjoy the last part of their lives.

My Grandmother had not been aware of how badly she was dependent on the medication. The Benzodiazepine withdrawal reduced her to the state of an infant, screaming, crying, pissing herself, begging for medication and then sometimes sleeping for 5-10 minutes at a time. I was desperately trying to get her help. She once went to the local hospital. They were sympathetic and gave her a few days worth of medicine, though we were still right back where we started.

Moral of the story, my Grandmother was put on a medication without having any knowledge whatsoever of the dangers/risks. She was maintained on this medication for decades without issue. The medication was then violently ripped away, sending my dear Grandma into a living hell that still brings tears to my eyes when I imagine how she looked during the withdrawal; how she would beg me like a starving orphan to find her something to make it stop. The doctors generally do not care and any kind of blame for the issues of dependence/tolerance are easily pushed onto the shoulders or the patients. Maybe they didn't use it right? Maybe they liked it too much? Maybe it's the fault of big pharma? Whatever it is, you sure as shit know that the prescribing doctor is not at fault in any way, in any practice, in any universe.

Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I truly understand and that I have your back in this. I know it's difficult and terrible. Just know that there are people like me in front of their computers right now who care about you and your situation. We are here to help people like you because we love helping people. We put all of our drug escapades to good use here. Hopefully we can give you some advice and peace of mind.

Clonidine

This is essentially a medication to lower blood pressure. This effect seems to produce a feedback loop between the body and mind in that the mind feels the body relaxing, tension releasing and in turn, this convinces your mind that you are feeling less stressed. This is the best way I can describe it.

You are aware, I'm sure, of the feeling of incredible tension, heart palpitations/rapid heart rate, a sense of impending doom and an overwhelming urge to move your legs. Clonidine really shines in taking the sharp edges off of these symptoms. You will feel much less keyed up, anxious and/or nervous.

Likewise, Clonidine is a very useful sleep aid, not just for your situation, I feel it's a great choice for lots of people. I still use it to this day when I'm having trouble sleeping the same way a person might pop an antihistamine to get to sleep. It works great and the side effects are minimal if at all present. For someone in withdrawal like yourself, this is likely going to be 0.1mg -0.2mg Clonidine either 2 or 3 times per day. In my case, I found I felt better using a lower dose during the day, but would take a larger dose in the evening to induce sleep.

Gabapentin

Trade name Neurontin. I'm sure you've heard of this stuff. It's a drug I commonly recommend to folks in Opioid withdrawal. Its effectiveness in treating these symptoms is uncontested in our world and it along with Clonidine are the dynamic duo of withdrawal medications. If nothing else is available, I tell people these two together can make it work. It's also effective for withdrawal from sedative/hypnotics like Benzo's and Alcohol, though I have less experience with its use for this purpose.

Gabapentin will help a lot with those feelings of tension also. It's greatest effect IMO is the reduction of Restless Legs Syndrome. It can neutralize that urge to move and allow you to get some sleep. Not only that, Gabapentin has been shown to increase the "value", if you will, of sleep. Folks who take Gabapentin have been shown to get proportionately more out of their sleep if you can believe that. I can personally attest to this effect. Assuming that you're currently not getting the sleep you really want, it could be really helpful.

During the day, it also can help with the psycological stuff. It can give you some motivation, a little bit of energy and just generally make things easier for you during your withdrawal. If I were you, I would start with something like 300mg Gabapentin 3x per day, though this can be increased or decreased.

These are rational drugs for you and your situation. If you have any questions, you know where to find us. We will be there for you in any way that we possibly can. I know how scary everything feels when you're going through this. Just know that you have some friends who aren't going to let you go through this alone. You also won't be the first person we help figure all of this out. It's all possible and you're more than capable of making it happen. I'll talk to you soon!

Hi Keif,
thank you so much for your well thought out and caring response to me. yes, i'm quite worked up. i have a telehealth appt this am. with my dr. to talk about all. i am already prescribed from my pcp gabapentin. 300 mg. that's good then right? it does help with sleep and anxiety. i am very anxious atm. it makes me feel good to know that others hv gone through this successfully and i can too. friends. ty. i slept very fitfully last night. up and down up and down. i'm afraid to tell my dr.- he'll think i'm more dependent on the lorazepam than he already does?. he's a good dr. He put me on Selegiline transdermal. 6 mg. 1x/day. its working. but it was working better when i was able to take my lorazepam without metering it out and cutting it in halves, which i've now done. shit. how do i get through this.? i''m in tears waiting for my zoom appt and know i must remain calm. Dr. also connected me with ket iv infusions which i recv 1x/wk . 85 mg. over 45 minutes. i'm 5.7 ft. and weigh 150 lbs. my dr. does not want to go higher. he feels we are at a therapeutic dosage. i think they are effective in treating my treatment resistant depression. i will say however, that although i've been getting infusions for about 8 months, the rodeo is always different. it seems to depend on whatever other chemicals are at work in my system. this makes sense right? for instance, my reaction to the ivKet was different when i was on Auvelity (wellbutrin + dextromethorphan), than it is now when i am on Selegiline. These nuances hv not been discussed between me and dr. the last few infusions, i've had anxiety attks during infusion, even though Versed, a benzo, short acting, is co-administered.
also, there is much concern here in usa that health insurance has cut reimbursement to drs. that provide ket iv infusions. too much paperwork and not enough reimbursement, is causing many drs. to discontinue offering it, and clinics are closing. i'm fortunate so far that my dr. , an md anesthesiologist, remains open and taking my insurance. i pay a small copay. i am blessed in this. what is the status of ket iv treatment for mental health conditions in UK (i think thats where you are?). ?
i apologize for the lengthy post and hope i hv kept your attention. it is hard to find anyone to talk to who has as much knowledge as you do.
thank you for the support. please respond.
p.s. breaks my heart to read of your dear grandmother. that is horrible to do that to her. same is happening here in usa. i agree, when i believe that , like my dear deceased father who was denied opiates during his lung cancer, that , especially in end of life situations, dear folks should be able to have whatever they want. poor Dad was too uninformed and compliant to fight for what he wanted. truth is he did not know - he believed what his dr. told him. like so many others, much to their demise.
Happy One, or trying to be.....

 

[happyone]

is the obvious answer not barbituates? Good luck findin em and please keep yourself alive. If you thought benzos opis and alc were the triangle of death; well I'll go that road all day before barbs and drinks (safety wise at least).

Soma feels good but does jack all for anxiety; well maybe a little as being high on anything does. Shoot gabapentin is the one I remember too, brand names neurontin and lyrica. Lyrica is alot stronger mg for mg and in general effects; when I take lyrica it feels like im drunk and on a small amount of speed. (in other words eckh, no attention span, can't enjoy ish, feel the need to 'accomplish' *last thing I want in a high, "get me fucked up and in public please! nah.)

The real life answer is going to be a much larger dose of benzos. I have known people scripted up to 16 mg of xanax/klonopin a day.....

I would venture that your doc is trying .5 out to see how YOU react to it. 2 mg a day is about the average benzo script (for those that have them in my area). You could bounce from benzo to benzo and I reccomend temazepam brand name restoril. I ended up trading my temaz script in for klonopin after the pharmacy thought I forged a script. (totally legit straight from doc I sware)....he jumped down there throats when they called him and I got my meds.....I dont like being accused of prescription forgery though lol.

*edit* If you have to go outside of your doctor and are good with computers bromazolam seems to be widely available. (I have never tried it but alot of bunk xanax bars that never get called bunk are now bromaz)

hi , that is awful that you were accused of forging a script. are you also in UK? seems many on this platform are? i read through your post as i am going through the same cut back of benzo by my dr. i posted here too. i am on such a low dose now and he wants it lower. .25 mg lorazepam, only 2 a day. he's weaning me off over the next few months. this already has me concerned but i am afraid to say that to him. i shouldnt hv to feel that way. how are you doing now? thank you for your post Smokey.
Happy One