Australian mobile law question

[kingpin007]

^^^

just make sure you look at exactly the time and date they say you were on the phone.

now just so you know they can see if someone had called you or you were calling someone.

so erasing sms , recent call lists or whatever will not help you.

If you contact your phone company they can send you the logs for that day including sending sms , received and dialed calls and vice versa ..


bottom line if you had sent a sms or had made or recieved a call within lets say a couple mins thats listed on ticket you might have hard time as police can say oh he was seen at this time but ticket was written at this time ... police can get away with a few mins ...

So look if you were on the phone or had sent asms whilst driving around the time of the time written on ticket then you will have to pay fine.

If you were not using your phone at all then fight it all the way ..

also they might ask you well why would police think your on phone ... reply " I was scratching my ear .. "


Aslong as you have all the paperwork from phone comapny stating that around time of ticket the phone was not in any use what so ever ... if you recieved a sms then thats not important aslong as no call was received or made around that time , in saying this you would not need a lawyer as you can defend yourself.

it will cost you a day off work ... but if you lose then the fine plus $50 court costs . Let us know how you go .. good luck ..

 

[perthboy]

good post man.
yeah I hadn't recieved a call or sms all day until well over an hour after I got pulled over.
my phone company can only apparently give me the details of calls and sms I have made for some reason
and I was actuallly scratching my face when I passed them too.

I dunno how it will go down in court. phone company won't give me the logs i need, and I doubt the cops are gonna request them if they dont work in their favour

 

[kingpin007]

ok well your just going to have to convince the judge ...

say this ... I was scratching my ear and when police pulled my over I pulled my phone out of pocket to let them see the recent calls as to believe your story but they declined and said too bad take it to court.

If you have a clean driving record , get a print out from the rta and take that to court . You must convince the judge that the police should have looked at your phone then you would not be in court and its just a waste of everyones time & a clean rta print out of your driving history in last fear years will help that.

 

[perthboy]

hmm i'll try and find the WA equivilent page.
Thanks for that

 

[perthboy]

the phone company seem pretty convinced that they can't get me the incoming records despite asking 3 different people

 

[tadfish]

If you are paranoid get a phone from ebay and go buy a Telstra starter kit (funnily enough you can buy them, but not Vodaphone, Optus, 3 etc. without ID and filling out an AFP form -- you may be able to find others at a 11 or something late at night when the storeperson is tired or just can't be bothered with getting out the paperwork - try busy hours for this....) and use white pages for the address and last name only. Yes they do match it and if its wrong it says this person does not live at this address, and to ring them up and give License number, however due to WA laziness use a WA driver license random number, theyre not checked

shhh u spilling beans

^ I don't think so, I think that worked back in the '60s but not now.

I know so

i used to work for optus, and they dont keep records of SMS as is popularly believed, idiots would call us all the time and ask us to print up old sms for them because they 'need' it, usually suspicious wives looking for their hubbies stuff. It cant be done, nothing other than time and date/number sent to is recorded, as is printed on the bills.

well i disagree i heard they keep for few months optus is dodgey so maybe they dont

echoing is a common thing for leased lines (phone cards) and mobiles or anything satellite. It won't always happen and sometimes even happens on Telstras network. I think its just a glitched, same as crackling.

SMS's can be recalled because I got a fuckin sicko ranomly sending illegal pornopgraphy to my phone and I rang the police and they asked me for the time and date, from what number and my number when I rang the child porn crime stoppers line. Ofcourse someone sitting at a computer has no access to it. Maybe its different state to state?

How can they track you within 5-10 metres. Maybe your phone areal is shit and your close to a tower but they will guess you're closer to Town B than Town C because you keep swapping between B and C and B shows higher signal strength.?

Its true they can.
I used to be able to tell when my phone was tapped and yes there is a way of telling if ya phone is tapped. more than one way.
they can also use a machine and bluetooth and many other things to hack phones and computers. I know this for sure.

 

[Heisenberg]

Theres that serial number trick if its more than 10 digits its tapped, what a load of crap though.
I spilled beans? No man, that is bird shit on my shirt. Its been there for a week.

 

[tadfish]

Nah there are other ways i assure you. Some ways i used to use not current now is the phone line how it sounds, takes to connection time, cell, the best test was to say alot of shit like i would say oh meet me at the park at this time i have a kilo if cops come and bust ya bag of flour well ya phone is tapped.
Does anyone else know about how the got that sms program that searches for certain words: eg. bomb and other terrorism words but i know they search for drug slag and dealer shit.

 

[MrIbis]

God what a fuckign load of bullshit banter, after working at a telco for quite some time - it is VERY clear that they DO NOT record SMS.

All that is recorded is the time/date and to/from information for billing purposes. 9,000,000 people ring a day to ask for printouts of the sms's on their partners linked acounts, and the short answer is NO because we dont have them, this includes police calling us as well. There are fucking umpteen billion sms messages sent per day, sifting thru that would be like a needle in a haystack - they arent recorded for privacy reasons. so unless someone is tapping into the connection and ripping your messages half way between the mobile tower and your phone - you're safe.

 

[Coolio]

There are fucking umpteen billion sms messages sent per day, sifting thru that would be like a needle in a haystack - they arent recorded for privacy reasons. so unless someone is tapping into the connection and ripping your messages half way between the mobile tower and your phone - you're safe.

Then Australia is the only country in which mobile carriers are this generous when it comes to consumer privacy. In the US, Canada, EU, etc. the contents of SMS messages are stored for future subpeona/warrant. It's a trifle to record this kind of volume of data nowadays, many thousands of companies store a LOT more records on a daily basis than any carrier's SMS logs would average.

Also, you worked at the telco on the support team I assume? Well, subpeonas and warrants don't get brought to the attention of support - they are usually handled by the company's legal representation, a VP, and possibly the senior sysadmins. Nobody else even hears about it at the company. They don't tell the foot soldiers the dirty little secrets.

 

[fortehlulz]

God what a fuckign load of bullshit banter, after working at a telco for quite some time - it is VERY clear that they DO NOT record SMS.

Feel free to address the following personal anecdote then.

I received a message on Christmas Day several years ago. I received the same, identical message some months later, complete with the original date and time stamp. Kindly explain to me if, as you suggest, there is no storage capacity whatsoever, how this occurred.

 

[Oldrolla]

I am still of the opinion that the technology is there for a third party to read your sms's. They may or may not store them but i think if they knew you were dealing i am sure they could specifically target your phone and get a hold of the sms's goint to and from AND read the contents. But thats just my opinion.

 

[kingpin007]

SIM CARD -->

it is a storage device that is used to store your phone numbers and sms you recieve ..

if you were a terrorist and the police were kicking your door in and you had alot of important sms messages stored on your phone and you managed to delete them all before police got you well they can take your phone & take your sim card out and recover everything.

your sim card still holds info until its deleted and only then 100% deleted when over written by more incoming data.

same as a hard drive on your computer ...

drug dealers are not worth the trouble unless we are talking a major importation and sms messages and phone calls where needed in court and if by some luck you only deleted those incriminating sms messages a day of before being caught then you would hope that the data is overwritten or you fucked.

only sure way would be destroying your sim card buy cutting it in half or similar ..


SO heres a good tip ... police kicking your door in and you get chance cut your sim card in half.

 

[MrIbis]

Then Australia is the only country in which mobile carriers are this generous when it comes to consumer privacy. In the US, Canada, EU, etc. the contents of SMS messages are stored for future subpeona/warrant. It's a trifle to record this kind of volume of data nowadays, many thousands of companies store a LOT more records on a daily basis than any carrier's SMS logs would average.

Also, you worked at the telco on the support team I assume? Well, subpeonas and warrants don't get brought to the attention of support - they are usually handled by the company's legal representation, a VP, and possibly the senior sysadmins. Nobody else even hears about it at the company. They don't tell the foot soldiers the dirty little secrets.

Well, from management - we are told, under no circumstances is it possible to retrieve sms messages from specific clients. I quite clearly asked all our trainers these questions as it was something of great interest to me, as i had heard alot of hearsay about the topic.

Coming from bigwigs of this specific telco (optus), and from friends who worked in similar positions within telstra - they dont keep sms messages. I dont know about other cariers like Vodafone or 3. But telstra and optus do not keep sms logs - other than the to/from info.

the mobile system kinda works like this

lets say m is the mobile phone, - - - - - is airwaves, and __________ is landlines, and T is towers, i'll explain the rest after

m- - - - - - T____________[HLR]__[VLR]___[central message server/call switch]_________T- - - - - -m

HLR stands for Home Location Register, and VLR is Visitor Location Register.


Now, data is recorded on the HLR/VLR, which checks that your sim is A) active and doesnt have any restrictions B) the tower in which you are connecting from, and records the times and dates, and from where and to whom the call/sms is to, thats all. evidentally the HLR and VLR mean pretty much the same thing, except your carrier will choose the HLR based on your most used tower(s), and use the VLR only when you're connecting from a different area.

In saying this, the only real information they can provide is a triangulated location of the specific sim card, which is sending signals to and from the towers every few seconds.

These servers dont record much information except billing stuff.. i hope this clears it up a little, as i specified in this or another thread, unless your phone is being tapped between you and the HLR, theres no much way for them to read your shit.