[AUS] Survey on OTC codeine use

just saw this and filling out now. i've been relying on codeine heavily for the most of the last 2 weeks. im not that much of a regular user but more than happy to fill this out.

just a quick note - the question that asked whether you've had any problems with opiates in the past 4 weeks and had the list below it didnt have fentanyl there. i have been using a lot of codeine and a small amount of methadone lately which i substituted into the answer.
 
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Why do people have to talk about all this? Its just gonna get codeine banned in the future :(

If it gets banned im gonna grow poppies or just buy heroin
 
Sustanon said:
Why do people have to talk about all this? Its just gonna get codeine banned in the future :(

If it gets banned im gonna grow poppies or just buy heroin
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To Sustanon and others who have expressed similar views:
What do you propose to do instead? Should BL cease from supporting research? All research or only some? Should we even have a 'drug studies' forum?
 
This survey is fine, but targeting the drug community on BL will give predictable results.

I hope the researchers have gone to bowls clubs and golf clubs as I know that many men and women use these otc codeine products to simply play their favorite game. Many people simply use these products so they do not have to go to the doctor so often, and many people use these products as a last resort.

I guess what I am saying is that this study is a good one and should be supported, but it must be a true representation of the codeine using public.
 
Good point.

Funny you say it - this was the first online survey I actually emailed to my parents ;) Didn't think the other ones I knew about would be appropriate!

(I know it has been advertised quite widely through other networks too.)
 
Guess im on the paranoia bandwagon here. See when i don't see an option for codieine extraction i have a nightmarish vision of seeing an anti drug add saying "in a survey codiene users said they would swallow dozens of tablets for a high risking organ damage"
 
Tronica said:
To Sustanon and others who have expressed similar views:
What do you propose to do instead? Should BL cease from supporting research? All research or only some? Should we even have a 'drug studies' forum?
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This site is not to support drug abuse in anyway. Keeping things confidential is the key. Codeine has been studyied for decades with alot of know uses. Look at what happened to Salvia, Piperazines, GBL, DMT and all the other legal substances. The more we mention codeine the more people are going to be curious about it and abuse it. Id be happy to do a survey about illicit drugs but not something thats legal.
 
We should not be supporting this type of research. It is quite obvious what will happen as a result of this.

Do you really think the intention of this survey is harm reduction?

Scrap the whole "drug studies" forum. It's just a way for the government to gain information(to be used against users) about drug use.

The more attention we get to codeine, with this government it wont take long before some genius gets the idea to make codeine script only or make the pills some how un-extractable.

My point: nothing positive is going to come from this for us users, so why support it?
 
Well what good possibly is going to come out of it? A genuine question.

And the fact that law makers will have access to this, just dosn't sit right with me.

But again, what do you expect this is going to achieve? Safer codeine use?

i know what im doing with codeine, theres no need for these surveys,this is how every freaking good legal drug has been taken away from us.

First its a secret, then it gets some exposure, then some do gooder government type will jump on it and the rest is obvious.
 
Last time I checked, Bluelight was committed to achieving harm reduction through making available as much information as possible about all the drugs we use so that we can use them in a safer way.

Drug Studies is a forum devoted to increasing dialogue between drug users and researchers. Research into drug use is going on across the globe. Sure, researchers need to find participants for their studies, but equally, Bluelight and drug users generally are interested in and affected by research findings.

What I'm trying to do here as moderator is facilitate that dialogue. I hope to increase the potential for drug users to have a louder voice in the debate. Research collaborations, where drug users don't just 'do a survey' but are part of the research team, happen in other fields (eg. mental health, cancer research). Given that often research seems so divorced from the actual experiences of drug users, it's clear we need that in this field too - more than ever.

I asked whether we should even have a Drug Studies forum. 8L4YN3 believes we shouldn't because
It's just a way for the government to gain information(to be used against users) about drug use.
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To be honest, we know that this can and has happened. I have to stress though - how can we change this situation? If Bluelight shuts down communication channels with researchers, do you really think the situation can improve? Do you really think that is in the spirit of harm reduction - which, I should remind people, is not all about keeping available every possible way of getting fucked up?

the fact that law makers will have access to this, just dosn't sit right with me.
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That's your view, but it's worth noting that law makers have no more or less access to this research on codeine than any other research or report or investigation. You should also remember that data are confidential and are not handed over to law enforcement - and researchers have control over the way they present material in reports.

8L4YN3 - I disagree with you about your comment "it is quite obvious what will happen as a result of this". I see multiple possibilities. That is what research is all about...
 
A few years ago I would have agreed with some of skeptical posters, but to be honest, if codeine becomes more restricted as a result of surveys like this, I might not mind.

Several years ago I discovered the simple joy of cold water extraction - not that codeine ever did that much for me (I guess I have a high natural tolerance) - but it did lead to an interest in opiates which has resulted in a Poppy seed and pod tea habit and a compulsive desire to seek oxycodone which is incredibly hard to break.

Bluelight is about harm reduction, and for me I believe the possible harm I may have inflicted on myself may have been prevented by not having access to codeine to begin with. So, it's not the codeine itself that has directly caused harm, but it has still led to the same end. I doubt I'd be where I am if codeine weren't so easily available and so easy to persist with until I'd "learnt" how to appreciate opiates.

I know I'm gonna get blasted by people for saying this, but it's how I feel. Harm reduction for me is more in line with mitigating substance abuse and addiction, not promoting "safe" ways of ingesting said substances.


Peace out
 
I don't think you should get blasted at all, I've voiced similar concerns before in the CWE thread in Aus Drug Discussion. Bluelight isn't pro-drug and if it were shown that such threads/methods/techniques were doing more harm than good I think the moderators have a duty of care to recognise that things might need changing, that said we are also deeply committed to openness and honesty, CWE of OTC codeine is a complicated issue.
 
Bludda said:
Bluelight is about harm reduction, and for me I believe the possible harm I may have inflicted on myself may have been prevented by not having access to codeine to begin with. So, it's not the codeine itself that has directly caused harm, but it has still led to the same end. I doubt I'd be where I am if codeine weren't so easily available and so easy to persist with until I'd "learnt" how to appreciate opiates.

I know I'm gonna get blasted by people for saying this, but it's how I feel. Harm reduction for me is more in line with mitigating substance abuse and addiction, not promoting "safe" ways of ingesting said substances.
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I don't think it's one way or the other, but rather that both apply. Harm reduction is indeed all about mitigating substance abuse and addiction, but it is not only restricted to the effects of the recreational drugs themselves. Many people who are already abusers or addicts take significant risks to get high, such as ingesting potentially toxic amounts of other drugs mixed with their target drug, using drug preparations of unknown composition, using dirty needles, etc. There is always a tension between keeping the curious but cautious user from going down a potentially addicting road, and keeping the abuser from health consequences of reckless drug use. What may help the latter avoid illness or death may encourage the former to use drug preparations that they otherwise would have been too scared to try. Harm reduction requires the free exchange of information about potential consequences of drug use and preventative measures to combat them. Sometimes, this involves describing safer ways to ingest substances, which can indeed mitigate the consequences of abuse/addiction for those who would get high regardless of access to the information. For those who are not abusers/addicts, this involves cautionary anecdotes and epidemiological information, which one can find aplenty on this site as well. Whether or not a Bluelighter chooses to heed this information is their own choice, and they bear responsibility for it.
Also, bear in mind that BL is not the sole source of information on recreational drug use. Even if BL censored all information on how to do drugs in a safer manner, it would be available elsewhere, and perhaps in a less well-monitored environment.
 
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That sorta misses my point. I'm really talking to those who complain about having this survey up on Bluelight, because it may leading to a scheduling of codeine, and my point is that Bluelight is the perfect place for such a survey - as well as being a source of information for people who ab(use) drugs.
 
Well look what has happend people, next year codeine will be changed to god knows what higher schedule or whatever, i forget exactly what is going down but any of you can google it.

Although im not blaming this one obscure little survey for this, these types of surveys are only going to result in tighter restrictions to codeine. How else can they "reduce harm"? which is the purpose of this survey, i thought.

Also what is with hoptis claiming Bluelight isnt pro drugs? You can learn how to grow lush weed plants from the cannabis section on this forum, providing information on how to grow plants more efficiently would to me be classed as being pro drug.
 
Here is the text of the article, should that link cease to work down the track:

Tighter restrictions for codeine (5th August 2009)

Most over-the-counter (OTC) products containing codeine will be upscheduled to Pharmacist-Only medicines next year.

The National Drugs and Poisons Schedule Committee (NDPSC) today revealed its decision to move OTC combination analgesics containing codeine (CACC) from Schedule 2 to Schedule 3 in a bid to address concerns of misuse and abuse of the products.

The committee also decided to limit the duration of treatment for the drugs to no more than five days and to limit the maximum daily dose of codeine in the products to no more than 100mg.

Codeine combinations for cough and colds escaped the changes, with the committee stating there was no evidence indicating a problem of misuse of these products.

In its record of reasons, the NDPSC said while upscheduling all codeine combinations to S3 would not stop the addiction problem, it would help mitigate it.

"In particular it would ensure pharmacist involvement and provide an opportunity to pick up signals of misuse or abuse," one committee member said.

"Several comments from addiction specialists indicated that such interactions were a significant trigger for addicts to eventually seek help."

The Pharmacy Guild of Australia failed in its attempts to halt the changes by recommending the use of real time monitoring system NotifyRx, similar to Project STOP, to assist in managing the risks and potential for abuse associated with the drugs.

The committee said the proposed system was impractical for several reasons including the cost of installation and maintenance, possible delays in implementing the system and privacy concerns and suggested the Guild has a "vested interest" in its use.

"Members agreed that, at this time, the consideration should remain focused on limiting access, rather than in introducing some sort of real-time monitoring system," the record said.

"Face to face counselling from a pharmacist should be viewed as the primary tool for mitigating the risk of abuse."

The changes are due to be implemented on 1 May, 2010
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Two points:
1. This survey hasn't even been published. Surely critics in this thread aren't silly enough to think this survey and this decision are related.
2. How is this and other surveys about harm reduction? Researchers want to understand how people are using codeine recreationally to see where the harms are and to get a sense of how harmful it is, so the responses can be appropriate (that is, not over-the-top, whilst not ignoring things if people are experiencing problems).

I don't think the critics in this thread have actually heard (or considered) my position. I'll sum it up here: Without research, policy would be made on the basis of unsystematic evidence or no evidence at all. Although it's true that much policy is indeed made based on popular ideas or for political reasons, researchers aim to influence policies so they are based on sound evidence of what is actually happening. I would hope that this aim is shared by Bluelighters too. But please, tell me if I'm wrong...
 
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