Opioids Are we fooling ourselves about Kratom's risks?

[scarlet_tunic]

Today I did not do kratom, and the withdrawals are not really that bad. I am just trying to keep busy. I feel more tired than usual, weaker, less energy at night.

 

[Bluuberry]

Muzda, why is it kratom's fault and not codeine's fault? Kratom can be used without any major w/ds, codeine is a whole other world. Moreover, why is it not your own fault getting addicted to something that has been known to be highly addictive since humans first discovered it? Opium is one of the oldest poison-medicines. Just because kratom tickles the opiate receptors is no excuse to throw caution to the wind and start playing with fire just because you liked the smell of smoke. I don't mean to sound negative, but I've kicked opi's before and I take responsibility for my decision to get high more often than I knew was safe. You can't go around blaming plants or even chemicals for a lack of willpower.

Good luck staying clean, seriously. It sounds like I had a much worse habit than you, and at this point I don't miss opiates anymore personally. Too many issues with slowing digestion (#1 key to health so it's not something to gloss over) and problems with sex. Most women don't want to fuck for 3 hours, sadly.

 

[Dimm]

I take kratom every day. I experience hair loss, but it runs in my family. Every guy on my mother's side of the family was completely bald by their late 20s. Kratom might be speeding up this process (much like even moderate drinking does), but I know its not caused solely by kratom use and have a feeling that others experiencing hair loss are probably genetically predisposed, as well.

Actually, my hair loss has lessened substantially since I quit drinking altogether, so I have a feeling kratom isn't affecting it at all.

Testosterone levels get lower over time anyways, so I don't see how that's relevant without knowledge of that person's diet, exercise regimen, or age...

 

[fslink]

Anything that affects opiate receptors can lower testosterone, at least from what I've researched. This may not be an indisputable fact, but it's generally considered accurate (although things get changed, debunked, and etc every day in the medical world). As far as personal experience, in my body only (obv ), kratom has had some decent and noticeable unwanted effects.

Most notable is the adrenal fatigue, which I experience after about a month of constant daily use, but if I don't maintain a steady 4-6 hour dosing regime, the rebound fatigue from not having it in my system is even worse. This occurs with any strain, and my doses widely vary from 7gr high end to 2gr just to maintain. Buy I will use about 20gr a day of a different strain and color, switched every 3 days.

I never noticed any I'll effects (or withdrawals) until I threw extracts in the mix, where I had been using plain leaf for about 6-7 years and never experienced wds. It seems that for me, once I abused extracts, my body made a semi-permanent change from benign and positive effects to dependency and side effects.

This is of course in no way provable since I am not a doctor, just happens to be what I have noticed. One of the reasons to not abuse extracts I guess. Now, even in the absence of extracts for a month plus, I have become severely dependent on kratom, needing it at regular intervals to avoid becoming a self powered swimming pool of sweat and fatigue.

Just a thought, I may just have broken something with all the unknown chemical use that extracts undoubtedly contain and it could be that the kratom itself has nothing to do with it... But that seems unlikely since I still need to use unadulterated kratom for maintenance.

Again, grain of salt, I'm not claiming anything medically factual, just anecdotal experience.

 

[scarlet_tunic]

Anything that affects opiate receptors can lower testosterone, at least from what I've researched. This may not be an indisputable fact, but it's generally considered accurate (although things get changed, debunked, and etc every day in the medical world). As far as personal experience, in my body only (obv ), kratom has had some decent and noticeable unwanted effects.

Most notable is the adrenal fatigue, which I experience after about a month of constant daily use, but if I don't maintain a steady 4-6 hour dosing regime, the rebound fatigue from not having it in my system is even worse. This occurs with any strain, and my doses widely vary from 7gr high end to 2gr just to maintain. Buy I will use about 20gr a day of a different strain and color, switched every 3 days.

I never noticed any I'll effects (or withdrawals) until I threw extracts in the mix, where I had been using plain leaf for about 6-7 years and never experienced wds. It seems that for me, once I abused extracts, my body made a semi-permanent change from benign and positive effects to dependency and side effects.

This is of course in no way provable since I am not a doctor, just happens to be what I have noticed. One of the reasons to not abuse extracts I guess. Now, even in the absence of extracts for a month plus, I have become severely dependent on kratom, needing it at regular intervals to avoid becoming a self powered swimming pool of sweat and fatigue.

Just a thought, I may just have broken something with all the unknown chemical use that extracts undoubtedly contain and it could be that the kratom itself has nothing to do with it... But that seems unlikely since I still need to use unadulterated kratom for maintenance.

Again, grain of salt, I'm not claiming anything medically factual, just anecdotal experience.

I do between 6 - 8 grams at night, usually after 9pm or so. I experience mild withdrawal--such as restlessness and being tired the next day--when I don't take it at night. I am now trying to take 2 days off a week. I experienced less severe withdrawal when I was taking it 4 or even 5 nights a week, rather than night after night without stopping.

 

[TripMcnealy]

The term "miracle cure" falsely tossed around on a regular basis in so many areas. I have yet to find a miracle cure to any ailment throughout my life. The term "miracle drug" is an even bigger lie sold to desperate addicts and those suffering from illnesses; therefore i'm very skeptical of anything that is even remotely sold/described as such.
BUT KRATOM TRULY IS A FUCKING MIRACLE CURE! Or the closest thing to a miracle cure for an addict or for those struggling to live with numerous medical conditions.
It works better than Sub. After a few days of quitting drugs you actually begin to feel a slight buzz. It is extremely cheap. It is legal. It manages pain, anxiety, insomnia, lethargy, and depression. Its overdose is uncomfortable and strange, not lethal. In short it saves and improves lives, quickly and effectively without the life sentence that comes along with big pharma.

You cannot chase the "high" because the negative effects begin to outweigh the positive at a certain point. Withdrawals are practically non existent (especially for a real deal veteran user).
Hey, maybe there are some bad side effects researchers will discover down the line, but being drug free with minimal symptoms in 2 weeks is worth it IMO!

 

[Mmp85]

For the record I know next to nothing about Kratom so my comments may be nonsense.
I think it's pretty rare for someone to take Kratom out of the blue with no prior drug history or even alcohol problems. So that would make me wonder if negative side effects are being caused by Kratom alone or years of drug and alcohol abuse.

 

[scarlet_tunic]

For the record I know next to nothing about Kratom so my comments may be nonsense.
I think it's pretty rare for someone to take Kratom out of the blue with no prior drug history or even alcohol problems. So that would make me wonder if negative side effects are being caused by Kratom alone or years of drug and alcohol abuse.

That's not always true....

 

[My3sons]

^ I can guess where this is headed!

 

[strity1994]

Kratom definitely affects my libido (temporarily) but as soon as the effects wear off my libido is back again. So I know Kratom doesn't affect hormone (because I inject myself with testosterone in the but every week which makes me 2 horny n kratom helps bring me down a notch)

 

[scarlet_tunic]

Kratom definitely affects my libido (temporarily) but as soon as the effects wear off my libido is back again. So I know Kratom doesn't affect hormone (because I inject myself with testosterone in the but every week which makes me 2 horny n kratom helps bring me down a notch)

Why do you inject yourself with testosterone?

 

[Kratomquella]

Funny that you say that as I too have many pills like bennies and the like that I dont touch and use Kratom only to get off methadone.

 

[QMK1]

Hey y'all, I just want to add that kratom at high doses for extended periods of time can indeed cause hormonal imbalances, I'm currently going through some stuff from it and having one hell of a time getting off it, or even reducing my dosage! My man boobs (I think its Gynecomastia?) are so achy from having low T and my sex drive, nonexistent, nothing whatsoever! Kratom while quite nice, must be used in moderation and not done day-over-day, I'm just now learning this the HARD way. I also wonder about industrial pollution and pesticides, I mean, the places this stuff comes from aren't the cleanest places on earth.

Ps, I've been taking it every day now for almost a year, but have really been hitting it hard (15 grams 2-3X's Daily) in the last 6 or so months, and these symptoms have just started occurring about a month ago, maybe not quite that long.

I found this place by researching this topic, nice community, very educated and well informed bunch!

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I definitely get headaches and a spun out feeling. Also get bladder pain during heavy use from multiple different vendors..I've gone through a few kilo's over the past year and a half

 

[Transcendence]

There is no question kratom is addictive. However, even heavy use doesn't approach mild to moderate opiate withdrawal. I would say it's slightly worse than heavy caffeine withdrawal, except less headaches and more malaise.

Kratom is not well studied. I have suspicions it may be hard on the kidneys, but nothing that alarms me considering my kidney function was tested after a year of daily use, and was within healthy parameters (as was my liver).

I think it's clear at this point that kratom is a very good choice to comfortably withdraw from mild to moderate opioid addiction without resorting to suboxone. For many suffering from chronic pain it is a godsend and better than a pill habit. And I am convinced that should the DEA ban this substance then opioid deaths will increase by the thousands.

 

[QMK1]

There is no question kratom is addictive. However, even heavy use doesn't approach mild to moderate opiate withdrawal. I would say it's slightly worse than heavy caffeine withdrawal, except less headaches and more malaise.

Kratom is not well studied. I have suspicions it may be hard on the kidneys, but nothing that alarms me considering my kidney function was tested after a year of daily use, and was within healthy parameters (as was my liver).

I think it's clear at this point that kratom is a very good choice to comfortably withdraw from mild to moderate opioid addiction without resorting to suboxone. For many suffering from chronic pain it is a godsend and better than a pill habit. And I am convinced that should the DEA ban this substance then opioid deaths will increase by the thousands.

No doubt, its far better than suboxone and such. Its hard on your adrenal glands so its does hit your kidneys, this is why after extended use and esp after stopping you feel so wiped out, right now I have pretty much zero energy! I gotta say its far harder coming off of kratom than caffeine ime, never really had much of a problem with pills, even though I've took many of them for extended periods of time, but not a year like kratom...

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I wonder if that's why I get so incredibly sleepy in-between doses sometimes. I can have the hardest time staying awake especially while behind the wheel when it's getting time for me to dose again. Then I dose and 30 minutes later I don't feel the least bit sleepy anymore.

And the interdose lack of motivation is pretty horrible too. Haven't kicked kratom (but I've kicked all sorts of opioids/opiates) but I imagine I'm probably in for the worst general lack of motivation ever. Hope it doesn't last too long.

 

[Transcendence]

Lack of motivation and moderately increased depression were the worst withdrawal effects after cold turkey on a 18 month,14g per day habit. I did not experience the desperate anxiety, helplessness, flu symptomes, and suicidal darkness that I have from moderate opium or suboxone withdrawal. It was relatively easy to taper for me by switching from red vein to green and then titrating down. The hardest part was wondering if I wanted to really quit as I always viewed it as a reasonable caffeine replacement for someone with depression and anxiety.

I now rarely take it because I hate the tea and it gets old swallowing 20 to 40 capsules daily. But it gave me a much needed morning boost of confidence and motivation during one of the hardest jobs I've had without impairing my motor skills or judgement.

 

[Ozekat]

Man, fucking Kratom. I love this stuff SO much. I've been taking it for years and it's funny now looking back it has always been very near at hand excluding a few crack/coke/meth/H adventures where I was way off the deep end of abuse.

But I think it's a bit seductive, and insidious moreso than people would like to admit.

Man, Kratom makes me so fucking hungry though, like an hour or two after I do good I just want to go on an eating adventure and it's intense.

Anyone else get a hugely increased appetite from kray?

Man I need to take a break lol but I jus don't want to. I love taking my white vein maeng da before work and mixing my bali/red at night......Kratom sure is something.