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Are IQ tests a TRUE measure of "intelligence?"

There are also two types of intelligences after that. Fluid intelligence, which is the intelligence level we are born with, and Crystallized inteligence, which is the intelligence we can develop (knowledge, concepts, etc).

After a while, fluid intelligence doesn't matter anymore.
 
>>There are also two types of intelligences after that. Fluid intelligence, which is the intelligence level we are born with, and Crystallized inteligence, which is the intelligence we can develop (knowledge, concepts, etc).

After a while, fluid intelligence doesn't matter anymore.>>

This is so grossly oversimplified as to be false. I have to go, though, and will give a decent reply later. :)

ebola
 
This is so grossly oversimplified as to be false

yea i know, but i try to make statements that most people can understand. Would you not agree that IQ's are primarily taken into consideration in middle/high school? For example a 6 y/o with a mental age of that of a 9 y/o would be much more advanced for his grade and be seen as a much more impressive student than a 22 y/o with a mental age of 25 y/o.

My problem with Howard Gardner's theory is that it is a feel-good theory, in my opinion. Of course there are different things that people are good at, but those are talents. If you ask me, Gardner confuses those two concepts to form a theory that is "likable."

perhaps, but do you not agree that each intelligence can lead to success?

Granted, some people are just not capable of learning some things that may be too advanced for them, but in most cases it is merely the work that is put in. Wasn't Einstein's IQ 69? (1 below the mark for mental retardation).

Also, IQ tests are flawed.

Flynn Effect: "The Flynn effect is the continued year-on-year rise of IQ test scores, an effect seen in most parts of the world, although at greatly varying rates."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

I feel lazy for posting wiki always as a source but it is just so damn good.
 
don't forget the indian genius who extrapolated advanced mathematical formulae's from an english school math's book. You know, the one they mention in good will hunting :D

despite that, learning and being taught play major roles in fkn with the western concepts of intelligence. I know spoon fed retards who couldn't philosophise the existance of an egg, who scored in the top 5% of my state in final year exams, whereas Edison fluncked primary school (primary right? not high? bahahha, i just realised the high highschool thing... :p)
 
>>And for the record, the IQ tests I've seen have been pretty unbiased. There were few to no questions regarding material that would have been learned in school. It was largely pattern recognition, memory function, and ability to put things in sequential order based on logic that were tested.>>

The scholastic bias of IQ tests is rather subtle in that mere experience in schooling, experience doing paper and pencil problems at all, will influence scores on the test. We can also see the pure statistical correlation between schooling and performance. Still, yes, genetics do matter somewhat.

>>All I said was that people who lack intelligence are more likely to find themselves in a position to be impoverished.>>

And what I am saying is that the amount of people who perform poorly on the job market due to lack of innate intelligence is dwarfed severely by those who are barred from success by structural inequalities in our society.

>>Many of my classmates in school were, quite frankly, not the brightest knives in the drawer.>>

I'm gonna start using this expression. :)

>>On the validity of IQ tests: I think that an IQ test that is specifically designed for a population is valid.>>

Still, IQ tests must discard their pretensions of measuring an innate attribute.

>>yea i know, but i try to make statements that most people can understand. >>

What is the point of throwing out misleading half-truths that people can understand?

>>Would you not agree that IQ's are primarily taken into consideration in middle/high school?>>

Yes, but this is only because these are the ages when the predictive utility of IQ tests can be deployed. I would argue that fluid intelligence always matters, insofar as we are always encountering new situations and trying to make sense of them.
 
i hate IQ tests, even tho i scored in the top 5th percential for the spatial reasoning one and was told id make a good pilot or sumthing (poor helpless souls that travel in my plane....)
i hav to admit they seem pretty accurate tho
 
What is the point of throwing out misleading half-truths that people can understand?

And what's the point of asking a loaded question? I didn't purposely try to mislead people, I explained a topic to the best of my ability.
 
I know some girls that has some super high iq, they always test each with iq questions and they r really tricky but they r good at it. Does it take IQ to gamble at the casino card games? Counting cards in Blackjack? I dunno they seem real good at it unless they study the plays from a book or something.
 
^^how the hell did you get from IQ to cards? was there something im missing there? or did you just randomly jump from one subject to the other one with no real relation between them?
And as far as IQ goes, IQ is NOT how intelligent you are.

BUT to answer the gambling questions, you can find some cats that you all here might think are stupid-ass muthafuckas, talkin slang, aint done gone and went, etc, and they will MURDER YOU at cards.

its a skill. some kids might test like SHIT on a iq test but might be a amazing chess player. its the type of learning youve had in your life to bring out your intelligence and nurture it that gives you intelligence more than any "innate" shit.....there are peopel who are more intelligent than other people, straight up, no doubt, but im just saying in that case there is many different types of intelligence, failing at one part dont mean youre stupid, and the chances youve had in life to learn and be encouraged to develop your intelligence have a much bigger effect on whose gonna be considered "smart" or not...
excuse the cheesy analogy but you might have a seed for a beautiful plant, if you dont water it right and give it enough sunlight it will never grow....that dont mean it was defective to begin with...
 
>>And what's the point of asking a loaded question? I didn't purposely try to mislead people, I explained a topic to the best of my ability.>>

Sorry. I think I misunderstood you. From the prior post, I thought you said that you were trying to simplify things for other people (but in the process glossing over crucial nuances).

ebola
 
ebola? said:
>>The IQ test is made up of questions that are material learned in schools. it is made of questions that someone would have to have a particular amount of education to answer correctly.>>

to a large extent, proper IQ tests are designed to present problems that do NOT depend on material learned in school. To a large extent, their design is a failure in this respect.

>>This just seems to proove my idea: (from a website on IQ)
"For IQs below 120, IQ is the best predictor of socioeconomic status. People with IQs between 75 and 90 are 88 times more likely to drop out of high school, seven times more likely to be jailed, and five times more likely as adults to live in poverty than people with IQs between 110 and 125. The 75-to-90 IQ woman is eight times more likely to become a chronic welfare recipient, and four times as likely to bear an illegitimate child than the 110-to-125-IQ woman.">>

This is way interesting. What happens for IQs above 125?

ebola

agreed, i'm curious =D
 
Pff. It's a bunch of crap. I don't have an official IQ number for you, since I've never taken the test as a full adult. Let's just say when I was in university, and the other computer science majors were comparing their 180s and 190s in their regular dicksize contests, I'd easily leave them in the dust so I suspect if I did take the test the result would start with a 2. It's not specific subjects either. I'm not a big math fan. I generally suck at algebra. But I can do multdimensional calculus in my head, I came up with the fundamental theorems of it independantly when I was 11. I scored 99th precentile on every standardized test I ever took, except the one that measures different "areas of intelligence" to give you some idea of a career to pick. On that one I scored as low as 90th on 2 or 3 of them. I've been told I have what's called "analytical genius". I can basically replicate genius level work in ANY field if I'm interested enough to.

So am I amazingly successful? I dropped out of college twice, was unemployed for a few years, tried to kill myself a few times, not exactly signs of success. Eventually I moved to a 3rd world country, married another man, and fell into a job writing for video game and computer magazines that pays what would be around minimum wage back in the US. But I'm happier. Poor, but very happy, and still very smart. I hope to find time to go back and finish up my fractal + wavelet video compression algorithm soon once I get ahead on my writing. That's if I don't decide it's a better use of my time to open a burrito stand (not even kidding here).

Oh and my husband's IQ? 2 digits, his parents were basically told he was a retard. But he does roughly the same job I do. Graduated highschool at 16 and left home, never looked back despite struggling the whole time. He's a lot better with web development and graphics than I'll ever be. He can also cook something without burning the house down or poisoning us, unlike me. :)

It's not what you have, it's what you do with it that matters. And if it's not making you happy, what the hell are you wasting your limited lifespan on it for?
 
Yeah... I'd say they're pretty accurate.

IQ tests really have little to do with what you learnt in school. I'm studying in the higher education system at the moment, but when I first took an IQ test - I was out of school, having missed much of my high school education.

Despite all this, I still got a decent score [no genius ;)... but above average nonetheless]. I'd say the results were reflective of how others see me. Personally, I feel dumb within myself half the time :p.

Lacey - Re: the point you mentioned involving someone who is great at chess -I'd say that's more about being smart/ clever, which isn't quite the same as intelligence.
 
Sorry. I think I misunderstood you. From the prior post, I thought you said that you were trying to simplify things for other people (but in the process glossing over crucial nuances).

ebola

no problem ;)
 
I've never had much respect for IQ tests. A look at their history will show that the test partly evolved out of an atmosphere favorable to eugenics in the early 20th century. Furthermore, there are lots and lots of intelligent who do nothing with it. For instance, there are porn stars out there who boast about having genius-level IQs. Guess what--they're still just porn stars.

I also think intelligence is easily misconstrued. For instance, my IQ only average; I've never been particularly good at solving logical puzzles. Yet there are lots and lots of people who think that I'm really smart, or even a genius (I'm not bragging). In truth, I'm just good at memorizing things I'm interested in, and I happened to be interested in a lot of different things.

Finally, even the most intelligent people can lack common sense. There's a story (that might be apocryphal) that Albert Einstein once removed the keel from a sailboat because he thought it would make it sail better. It didn't. ;)
 
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