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Are addicts more resilient or stronger than the average person?

Snafu in the Void

Moderator: NMI Bukowski Jr.
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Drug addicts/alcoholics obviously have numerous flaws and weaknesses. However, if we ignore these facts and objectively look at what they persevere through on a daily basis, it seems to me that they are stronger and more resilient than the average person.

A normal person wouldn't last a day in the life of a hardcore addict. The worst day of a normal person is normality in the life of an addict.

Homelessness, constant withdrawal, derision, mockery, psychosis, poverty, jail time... The actualities of addiction are considered ghastly to the normies, yet we live it every day.

I look up towards alcoholics with long term sobriety. I'm in awe, really, of what they went through, how they recovered and how they continue sobriety.

I'm not comparing addiction to a Navy Seal elite warrior, but to the average person.

What do you think?
 
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By not being able to stay clean even for some hours? Where is the resilience? We are the weakest. I feel you nevertheless, we try to find at least a few beneficial points to hold and decrease the shame and pain associated with the addiction and with the feeling that time was lost and it will never come back
 
we give in to pleasure seeking over all else. I don't think we are strong at all
Yeah, the premise is to ignore our obvious faults. I guess maybe a fruitless exercise... But just use imagination.

Also I'd argue the average human gives in to pleasure seeking daily, just not in such an extreme way.
 
Where is the resilience? We are the weakest.
I think addicts are naturally self deprecating. I am not glorifying or trying to ignore our defects by any means.

My real vision is of an addict who has become solidly sober. I think that person would be able to endure tenfold the hardships of a normal person without completely breaking down emotionally.

Alternatively, an addict who is in dire situations. They would bare it more resiliently than the average person... no?

Is that a strength? Or callous? Is there a difference?

I don't know.
 
I think as @Cheshire_Kat said, people are stronger than they realize. If you get pushed to the limit you’ll find a way to survive. All those behaviors are a product of their environment, who’s to say if the person living a cushy nerf life (office) didn’t suddenly become horribly addicted they too would find a way.

That said, it takes time to learn the lifestyle, so for those that fall so dramatically the learning curve might be too steep to survive. If you’re born into the life you’ve been training for it since Day 1. Personally I was born into this, it’s why I’m still here when I’ve watched so many others fall. I was learning about addiction before I could form memories.

-GC
 
Weakness to become addicted but strength to overcome or even survive it? Naw, I don't even like that. We're all looking for something and falling into a trap on the way is not weakness.
However, I know what you mean. I overcame some addictions to raise my daughter. Had some chronic pain issues to live with during those decades. I used to tell myself and also (sometimes) tell people that I was a fucking hero. No less than anyone else overcoming any monster. Important to remember.

For all the LOTR nerds out there. Frodo was too "weak" to overcome the ring in the end. He still gave it all to save the world and he was still a hero.
 
I think we obviously are not as mentally resiiliant it's why turn to self destructive means to numb how we feel.

The only argument around that is that the pain an addict feels is worse than a a normal person's mental pain. It's either that or we just don't tolerate the same level of pain
 
I think as @Cheshire_Kat said, people are stronger than they realize. If you get pushed to the limit you’ll find a way to survive. All those behaviors are a product of their environment, who’s to say if the person living a cushy nerf life (office) didn’t suddenly become horribly addicted they too would find a way.

That said, it takes time to learn the lifestyle, so for those that fall so dramatically the learning curve might be too steep to survive. If you’re born into the life you’ve been training for it since Day 1. Personally I was born into this, it’s why I’m still here when I’ve watched so many others fall. I was learning about addiction before I could form memories.

-GC
Damn I bet you've got a hell of a story man. I feel similar in the sense that we perhaps may be interested in chemistry for the same reason....but I grew up totally sheltered from addiction...which I beleiev was part of the problem.

Addiction was in my family but hidden well (pills were given by doctor and mommy slept all the time) and never spoken of and and I never was spoken to. And when I found drugs I was on my own with zero prior knowledge
 
I think we obviously are not as mentally resiiliant it's why turn to self destructive means to numb how we feel.
The strongest people are often the most broken in my experience. They just need some fixing.

What is mental resilience exactly? The ability to be motivated and perform at work? Or the ability to endure pain? Both?

Does the three legged dog not have to try harder in life? Is he less strong than a four legged dog?

I am getting abstract and semantical... but I guess that's my point. From a young age I often gravitated to the homeless, the struggling, the freaks... and often felt more comfortable with them than normal people. I may be biased.
 
One of my first homeless people I befriended was a homosexual. I was probably 14. He was drunk and told me his life story over a two hour time period in a park. It consisted of love, music, domestic violence and monetary nonsense. It was beautiful and eye opening.

I never saw him again.
 
Not me, that's for sure. I don't know about most addicts, it seems like there's a wide variety.
 
The strongest people are often the most broken in my experience. They just need some fixing.

What is mental resilience exactly? The ability to be motivated and perform at work? Or the ability to endure pain? Both?

Does the three legged dog not have to try harder in life? Is he less strong than a four legged dog?

I am getting abstract and semantical... but I guess that's my point. From a young age I often gravitated to the homeless, the struggling, the freaks... and often felt more comfortable with them than normal people. I may be biased.
I don't see what being homeless has to do with it. Most addicts suffer in homes with clean sheets.

Mental resiliency to endure life's bullshit. Some people have much harder hands in life is what I alluded to. But I know I use over like the smallest nothing sometimes, every little hiccup becomes and excuse to use...you lost resiliency
 
Damn I bet you've got a hell of a story man. I feel similar in the sense that we perhaps may be interested in chemistry for the same reason....but I grew up totally sheltered from addiction...which I beleiev was part of the problem.

Addiction was in my family but hidden well (pills were given by doctor and mommy slept all the time) and never spoken of and and I never was spoken to. And when I found drugs I was on my own with zero prior knowledge

Yea I’ve thought about writing a book but it’s still far from over ;)

-GC
 
I think substance dependent people, or those with substance use disorders (I shy away from the term addict because I view it as heavily stigmatised and shame laden, imo) have a level of resilience that ordinary every day people do not have.

I graduated a law degree using meth heavily in 2016-2017, Xanax frequently and heavily in 2016 as well as codeine almost every day 2016-2017 and alcohol tossed in when I could afford it, with gaps here and there when I didn't use. Then after I went to rehab in 2018 I still drank alcohol and cough syrup a lot and used meth once or twice, 2019 used meth I think once, 2020 relapsed on poppy seed tea and used meth, 2021 poppy seed tea. So I was using for the majority of my law degree to the point at which it was a serious problem, I just happen to be smart enough that I'm working with a surplus in the brains department and I didn't fry my noggin like half the people I did rehab with. Lucky me.

And I look back at all the people I did law school with, some of whom did truthfully have their own struggles to surmount, but I would hazard a guess that not a single other student would have been able to stay enrolled dealing with the extent of substance use that I did to the level it was at, it would actually have broken them or dragged their GPA to shit and mine ended up at 5.5/7. So I did pretty well.

And I was also homeless for the first 6 months of my degree. I didn't even own a laptop so when I did essays I would typey work out on a shitty old iPad, email that to myself and try to snag a desktop on campus which wasn't being used up by some selfish asshole taking the space sitting there on their laptop and blocking me from using a computer I desperately needed. And I still maintained my GPA even though I would lose assignments when I would move between housing, be sleeping under the bridge down near the river, or simply be too high to get it done.

The thing that bums me out about that experience, and that is just the start of the issues I had during law school with many undiagnosed disabilities which impacted my ability to excell (though I did also win a Dean's Certificate in 2020 for achieving the highest mark for my cohort in one of my classes, which was my top grade ever and something not many of my very studious friends did nor the ex Dean of the faculty who wrote me a wonderful reference) is that I cannot fucking TELL anyone l, especially future employers about these issues because it isn't a good look for a junior barrister and solicitor to have a long term substance use disorder. It's just so stigmatised, even if statistically loads of lawyers do coke the thing is they're not shooting up meth and heroin intravenously. Like if I had some kind of more acceptable reason my GPA doesn't reflect my true academic potential I could shout it from the rooftops, but I'd be a fucking idiot to tell the world about this issue, no way. It could actually be a problem with getting admitted to practice as I need to be signed off as a 'fit and proper person' whatever that literally means.

So yeah like it would be nice for me to go 'oh yeah, my GPA is lower than expected because I was dealing with a severe polysubstance use disorder which almost killed me many times over during my studies and I was also homeless and unable to access any shelters during that period of time due to being trans, but I can say you should really hire me because no one else could have really pulled that off other than me, and perhaps a rare one or two people like me who exist sporadically around the world. This makes me a better choice. Because look at what I achieved through such adversity.

Nope, doesn't work like that.
 
Depending on the individual it can go any way. But speaking in a very generalized sense I'd say yes and a lot of us not only went through trauma in the first place that led us to become addicts but also go through many HELLISH experiences due to addiction that many people either wouldn't survive in the literal sense, or wouldn't survive psychologically.
My psych (after he'd learned my entire history) told me he was amazed that I was not only alive but also not complete gone mentally. Like, I have a lot of serious mental health problems and I'm not all there any more but I've gotten through it all. A lot of people wouldn't be after just one of the endless one's I have had. Aside from murder or physical torture, pretty much every terrible thing that can happen to a person has already happened to me and I'm only 32.
I'm actually kinda proud of myself for all the things I have managed to survive and (mostly) move on from.
 
No. What about the alanons, the abstinent people who do what we do with no alcohol, or Mormons ("The Saints") or Muslims? Yes we are a resilient bunch because we all help each other.
 
I think we addicts really are stronger in some ways than people who has never used anything/never been addicted. Especially when addict has been abusing some drug heavily for a long time and has overcome the addiction, daily habit, and learned to use moderate or not using at all.

All The stress, money problems, humiliation and knowledge that you are "The trash people" or "class zero person", and still walking with dignity and some self confidence and talking to people and being nice, polite and humble even when you're been treated like shit because you know better, you know you are not shit and you are not worthless. Letting all the negative BS just flow away and not responding to it, it needs a lot of strenght. For example.
 
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