Anybody know the true structure of 5F-PHP?

[yoyoman]

Sometimes, these php analogs seem like they came from satan himself.

5F-PHP has mild activity but I doubt its really at the 5 position (or 2) since the same companies sell a 9F-PHP. None of them show a structure. I saw it posted somewhere.. maybe a foreign forum.

4F-PV8 is inactive

4F-PHP = da bomb diggity... longer smoother version of aPHP.

4-Cl-PHP = instant psychosis with aliens, ufo's, the whole thing. Never seen the things I saw on that drug and strangely i keep going back occasionally.

 

[Dresden]

5-F-PHP and 9-F-PHP are impossible names, at least according to the traditional way we have of nomenclature.

 

[Dresden]

I mean 9-F-PV8. They must be errors or some other, obscure form of nomenclature.

 

[mike.vick]

Sometimes, these php analogs seem like they came from satan himself.

5F-PHP has mild activity but I doubt its really at the 5 position (or 2) since the same companies sell a 9F-PHP. None of them show a structure. I saw it posted somewhere.. maybe a foreign forum.

4F-PV8 is inactive

4F-PHP = da bomb diggity... longer smoother version of aPHP.

4-Cl-PHP = instant psychosis with aliens, ufo's, the whole thing. Never seen the things I saw on that drug and strangely i keep going back occasionally.

Christ! Yeah, the haloganated amphetamines are str8 neurotixic, I don't see how these would differ.

 

[methyldreams]

Looks like a cat's new worming tablet formula

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Od -> N&PD

 

[serotonin2A]

Christ! Yeah, the haloganated amphetamines are str8 neurotixic, I don't see how these would differ.

The amphetamines are neurotoxic to serotonergic neurons because they are taken up by the transporter and then metabolized to neurotoxic compounds. Members of this cathinone class seem to lack affinity for SERT, and furthermore function not as transporter substrates but rather as uptake inhihitors. Hence, it isn't necessarily the case that they are neurotoxic.

 

[mike.vick]

^^^ bk-amps were ~1/3 less serotonergic (in the case of bk-mdma, at least) BUT still serotonergic, nonetheless. Especially 4-mmc

 

[serotonin2A]

^^^ bk-amps were ~1/3 less serotonergic (in the case of bk-mdma, at least) BUT still serotonergic, nonetheless. Especially 4-mmc

Yes, but that isn't the main reason why I was arguing that they may not be neurotoxic. If they are not substrates for SERT then they wouldn't produce neurotoxicity via the same mechanism as haloamphetamines.

 

[Dresden]

Methylone was 1/3rd as serotonergic as MDMA, but 4-MMC aka mephedrone released as much 5-HT and more DA than even MDMA. Methylone's biggest drawback to me was not that it wasn't somewhat enjoyable but that it didn't last long enough and redosing only extended its stimulatory rather than empathogenic effects. Mephedrone only lasted an hour or an hour and a half but the high was righteous and redosing worked like a charm. However, I thought it felt like a straight up stimulant rather than an empathogen despite its reported huge serotonin releasing properties.

 

[Dresden]

The OP's comments on 4-Cl-PHP have strangely piqued my interest on trying 4-Cl-PVP, which is now available. But I know I would probably end up in soke sort of institution temporarily if I did.

 

[mike.vick]

Methylone was 1/3rd as serotonergic as MDMA, but 4-MMC aka mephedrone released as much 5-HT and more DA than even MDMA. Methylone's biggest drawback to me was not that it wasn't somewhat enjoyable but that it didn't last long enough and redosing only extended its stimulatory rather than empathogenic effects. Mephedrone only lasted an hour or an hour and a half but the high was righteous and redosing worked like a charm. However, I thought it felt like a straight up stimulant rather than an empathogen despite its reported huge serotonin releasing properties.

The only time I tried it was after feeling really loopy and crazy the day before from doing "4-aco-dmt" and it made me feel just even more loopy and crazy. I had a fun, jaw-clenching, brain-killing time on 4-mec once tho, maybe it had other shit in it too, IDK

 

[Dresden]

4-MMC has been shown to be non-neurotoxic.

 

[mike.vick]

4-MMC has been shown to be non-neurotoxic.

Not for me, I really felt the toxicity. But I was also having post-concussion syndrome from something else, and 4-aco-dmt the day before.

 

[adder]

How did you feel the neurotoxicity? Short-term effects or even long-term effects from excessive use are not tantamount to neurotoxicity. I bet long-term post-use syndromes from 4-MMC similar to those happening from excessive use of MDMA happen, but are they really all due to actual neurotoxicity? I doubt it, I've had my share of excessive use of 4-MMC and 3-MMC for half a year maybe, and I had some side effects lingering for a few months like low mood (couldn't really tell that apart from my usual low mood though), feeling tired, unmotivated, and numbing in extremities, but it all passed. I'm not saying these drugs don't affect your brain long-term, but I don't think it's neurotoxicity.

Anyway, nobody can actually give you the structure of 5F-PVP or 9F-PVP, they are not chemical names according to any standardized nomenclature, they could be anything. With 4-MMC for instance it is at least clear that 4-methylmethcathinone is meant (which doesn't change the fact anyone could sell anything as 4-MMC), with 5F-PVP it's impossible to tell. I suppose it might be a trick to postpone banning those compounds, certain countries ban substances by their chemical names, e.g. in Poland there was an update of the banned substances list some time ago and they basically put there anything they could find on the internet, including compounds from Wikipedia, I guess, that never made it to the market, they can't ban 5F-PVP though that way. I suppose a similar system may function in a lot of countries that don't have analogue acts.

 

[yoyoman]

Huh. So it may be old stock of a banned compound. It is well active via IV route, seems to be more of a psychotic tinge to it, whatever it is. I would recommend NOT mixing "5F-PHP" with 4-CL-PVP. Usually the aliens, ufo's, and self transforming machine robots (actually reminds me of DMT these things, they would look like little transformer people flipping inside out changing shape, growing out a blaster gun so they can fly around) play nice and the whole thing is calm on just 4-CL, but one time I mixed in the 5F whatever it is and things got nasty.

Street lamps turned into two UFO's like alien saucers they came closer and closer started beaming robot mini satan's at me. I could see them flying around and even enter my body and it felt like oh fuck i really did it this time. I could barely move like my movements were all screwed up (and in the dark its worse anywhere you look aliens are ready to take your soul) but i managed to grab a PG bottle of etizolam and down like 50mg. It was like it had no effect at all I had to experience the full torture until it was over.

Anyway, the 4-CL-PVP only "trips' i've seen Aliens in reflections, seen parallel realities and even saw the shed in my backyard (the top looks like a 2d triangle from my view) turn into a 'stairway to heaven'. Complete with midgets lifting up balls of amber colored light angels (no words for these things). Aliens talking about me only in things like glass door reflections. Seen alien cat run around and saw a HUGE party of weird creatures they closed the gate looking at me like "oh that guy.. time to close the gates" (seeing little black ghosts run out). One of the most entertaining substances i've had and i've had a lot. Its like a psychotic psychedelic. Completely goes away when it wears off. My phone turned into a pseudo-5D phone and people i know were trying to teach me telephathy. Of course none of them have any memory of this and all evidence mysteriously disapppeared.

Have a bottle of strong liquor or GHB handy if you explore some of these. MDPHP is an improvement over MDPV... complete with perv-ness.

 

[Solipsis]

Heh instant psychosis is that right? A whole lot of dopamine agonism or something else?

Really sketchy with the bad nomenclature, I once tried MDPV, aPPP and 4-FMC when they were very novel but at some point I really stop understanding why you would volunteer to do 'way too novel' stims if there are generations before it that hardly stopped being novel.

para-halo stims other than the amphetamines may be safe in ways that the para-halo-amphetamines certainly are not, but I still think it's a terrible direction to go in without any proper research done and not that necessary. 4-FA is excellent enough to really inquire on its differences with the other halo analogues, and data seems to be reassuring enough for moderate use although who knows about chronic use really.

Similar to with the cannabinoids I'm really lost at which bans create a void that make necessary newer generations, it just seems like a proliferation of gnarly stuff to me most of the time, far beyond the point where I can find justifications. The more it proliferates, the more hopeless it seems to get any grasp of that it is we're dealing with, in my opinion you are better off staying with reasonable and proven stims as long as possible before they are banned - reasonable as in: they have some history of use, not really immediate toxicological SAR objections, not really worrisome effects like instant psychosis or tachyphylaxis or what have you.... and especially not a question of what the bloody structural formula is..

take care

 

[yoyoman]

I admit should not be playing with 4-chlorinated analogs even if its not an amphetamine or taking chances with unknown structures.

But after all my recklessness it has me obsessed with the structure of things like MDPHP, 4F-PHP, aPHP and what modifications could be made to reduce psychotic parts while retaining its incredible AWAKE properties. I am currently being tested for sleep disorders and narcolepsy (have many of the symptoms and i seem to require 15 hours of sleep without stimulants). What I noticed is the doses of d-amphetamine get higher and higher to where i'm taking a nap after eating 70mg but i can take just a tiny dose of MDPHP and i'm instantly awake/alert. I do not know if I need to try focalin (its do-able, ritalin is a bit too jittery) and dexedrine one week on one, one week on the other, assuming its got no or little cross tolerance.

I go through phases of no-stimulants for years and get tired of being tired go back on amps then get tired of the personality changes and the pyrovalerones have their own 'personality changes'. But, MDPHP is a vast improvement over MDPV (which is basically unusable medicinally for most people, causes so much anxiety and paranoia) - MDPHP or 4F-PHP have worked well at low doses for 'backup' when i've reachced the 'eat 150mg amphetamine nothing happens' (2 weeks tops of daily use).

A lot of people are stuck in the same boat whether its ADHD or whatever, some people need stimulants. There has not been any official progress in years since the pharma industry won't touch them. So narcoleptics turn to meth when the doses get too high which is proven neurotoxic. I think there should be some research into these x-PHP's. There appears to be no cross tolerance to amphetamines and taking them for a week not sleeping all day seems about equivalent to just taking a week off amphetamines. Very interesting. I don't know why or if the same can be said of taking 'ritalin breaks' I don't remember being able to do this in the past. There was no way around "sleeping for a week stim break" to reset tolerance.

4F or MD-PHP doesn't appear to be super dangerous, 4-methyl-PHP has some toxic metabolites apparently a methyl group there is bad. Makes me wonder about the methylenedioxy metabolism. 4-fluoro would seem the safest bet if one were to use these medicinally. alpha-PHP possibly at low doses but without a substitution on the ring it can get kinda...a bit much.


I wonder what happens if you lengthen the chain to the pyrrolidine or add something sticking off of it. Saw a paper somewhere where they lengthened the chain by a carbon (trying to find the most potent ones I think) who knows maybe that gets rid of the Aliens. No stimulant research legally happening i'm kinda glad China is pumping out random molecules out of 100 bad ones your likely to find one that ends up being tweaked and turned into a legal pharmaceutical.

----
They are coming out with new patients like actual Candy with the exact same salts and ratios of Adderall. Another company is coming out with a 50/50 d,l-amphetamine pill (that's sorta new, since its been years since that was available, but still a drug from the 19th century). Focalin is so jittery have you felt how clean isopropylphenidate is? Can't even tell you've taken a drug but your awake. Can't even tell when it wears off either cause its so light (with less personality changes) some of these random changes end up being used medically by people because there are no legit options besides the few same stimulants coming out over and over again with new names (and insane prices).

Stimulant evolution I guess its going to happen but if there is no legal avenue for it, it goes underground, usually a bit "shady" when that happens. Like the rest of the drug war. There's some anti-stimulant thing right now. Modafinil is great I suppose that was one good one but how long ago was that?

 

[adder]

Stimulant evolution I guess its going to happen but if there is no legal avenue for it, it goes underground, usually a bit "shady" when that happens. Like the rest of the drug war. There's some anti-stimulant thing right now. Modafinil is great I suppose that was one good one but how long ago was that?

I'd rather not be so fucked with way too much work to need amphetamine to get it done rather than waste my life away. It's not a stimulant evolution, it's the evolution of psychoactive research chemicals in general, and again something that was supposed to be just fun ended up casting a shadow over the history of drug use. Still hard to tell whether it's human nature itself or perhaps the fault is indeed in how the system works (e.g. working your ass off endlessly to illusively think one day you're going to get happiness and peace out of it which don't come like that obviously).

 

[Solipsis]

I'd rather not be so fucked with way too much work to need amphetamine to get it done rather than waste my life away. It's not a stimulant evolution, it's the evolution of psychoactive research chemicals in general, and again something that was supposed to be just fun ended up casting a shadow over the history of drug use. Still hard to tell whether it's human nature itself or perhaps the fault is indeed in how the system works (e.g. working your ass off endlessly to illusively think one day you're going to get happiness and peace out of it which don't come like that obviously).

Something similar portrayed in a nice way here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtPfyn4QLPc [Will Drugs Make You Super-Human? (Adderall, Ritalin & More) – 8-Bit Philosophy]

Yeah I function much more normally now on a not very high dose of dexamph for my ADD diagnosis so yeah it's certainly true that some people benefit so much from it because of the neurobiological condition they are born with that they may almost require them, but I guess it can also be possible to learn to manage it differently over time - I hope so.

Plenty of people also turn out to be mostly benefited from either amph or ritalin depending on how they are wired... Hard to weigh the pros and cons when your condition is that serious and the drugs you take for it are that heavy... disappointing if there are no heavier reuptake inhibitors prescribed..