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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

Anxiety - UK Doctors Will Prescribe ANYTHING BUT Anti-Anxiety Meds

Zopiclone bandit said:
You what!!!!!!!
That dose is insane, that would put most people on their arse & sleep for a month.

Anyone know why Doctors don't like to do a Benzo script?
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Because if something happens to a patient as a result of something they're prescribed a doctor can get in trouble and because benzo's have an addiction risk....doctors are WAY more concerned with covering their asses than helping a patient, even if the patient really suffers as a result.
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
Because if something happens to a patient as a result of something they're prescribed a doctor can get in trouble and because benzo's have an addiction risk....doctors are WAY more concerned with covering their asses than helping a patient, even if the patient really suffers as a result.
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People should sign a document that says "If anything happens to me it's NOT anything to do with the Doctor. I am an Adult and responsible for MY OWN actions"

Yet again the Nanny State steps in and the Generation Z lot clap their hands in Joy.
 
LoginNotSecure said:
800mg is the upper guideline, but I’ve regularly seen prescribed doses double that.
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The legal maximum is 1200mg (but like you say they guideline recommends 800mg max.) so I'm not sure how people have gotten 1600mg unless they are abusing it or seeing multiple doctors.
I was also prescribed it for BPD and mild schizophrenia when 800mg is meant for people with SEVERE psychosis. I think that made it even worse.

Not sure if I already mentioned on this thread (too lazy too scroll back through) but the 800mg made my blood sugar so far I was misdiagnosed as an insulin dependant diabetic. I felt like absolute shit so one day just stopped taking both the quetiapine and the insulin and my blood sugars returned to normal very quickly,

Coincidentally, 5 years later I was CORRECTLY diagnosed with diabetes.
 
Most benzodiazepines are only active for a few weeks, they pose a high risk of dependence and have an unfavourable side-effect profile.
Since I'm old, crippled and absolutely avoid medication where an alternative exists,

I suppose I could reasonably expect a short course of benzodiazepines for an appropriate, short-term disorder. But whenever people ask, it tends to be young, healthy people for whom a change in lifestyle and possibly an appointment with a psychologist, dietician or even psychiatrist.

Avoidance of caffeine and other stimulants, regular sleep patterns and at least 1 hour of exercise a day will significantly reduce anxiety. Keeping busy and setting goals helps to treat depression which might be the underlying cause. If you need a few benzodiazepines to overcome agoraphobia and/or GAD to let you get out and begin this process, then a doctor might consider it an option.

But they are aware that benzodiazepines often result in negative outcomes. Benzos suspend the grieving process, for example. So are contra-indicated even for certain rare events. If you have to give the eulogy and suffer severe anxiety for speaking in public, they might give you a couple of 5mg diazepam. Flying is also a common fear and again you might get 2 or 3 for the trip out and 2 or 3 for the return trip.

Doctors are only too well aware that drug-seeking behaviors are most commonly encountered with the benzodiazepines. That their are ALWAYS benzodiazepines available on the street - benzodiazepines that have come from prescriptions makes them rightly concerned. After all, in the past some doctors prescribed so freely that their is a generation of people who are prescribed a LOT of benzodiazepines and will continue to do so for the rest of their lives because detoxification would be too hazardous. Often the person simply keeps on getting repeat prescriptions and just puts them in a cupboard... until a younger person points out that they have hundreds or even thousands of pounds worth of drugs just sat there. My own grandmother had over 200 temazepam in her home when she died. I had no idea, none of us did.

Opioids, while more tightly controlled, are often, one might say USUALLY kept by the elderly as a way to take back some control. Like my grandmother, they conclude that if things get TOO bad (and for that generation, I mean 1930s bad), they have the option of a clean death. I know people are still discovering bottles of Quaaludes in home clearances.
 
Yes but there is other options like buspar for non-narcotic anti anxiety and panic attacks that can be used instead of a narcotic. So its always worth giving that a try if you have sever social anxiety and depression as I do. I find it difficult to go to the gym and other activities because I am so scared of social interactions etc. I am not joking. I find xanax helps me when I get in real bad anxiety/depression spouts and they come almost daily which sucks. Its so difficult to get predicted what you know works without looking like a drug seeker, you just have to go through the steps and let them try every drug out there until they finally nail the one that has been working because they think differently then the doctor I saw in the last country I lived in.
 
AlsoTapered said:
Most benzodiazepines are only active for a few weeks, they pose a high risk of dependence and have an unfavourable side-effect profile.
Since I'm old, crippled and absolutely avoid medication where an alternative exists,

I suppose I could reasonably expect a short course of benzodiazepines for an appropriate, short-term disorder. But whenever people ask, it tends to be young, healthy people for whom a change in lifestyle and possibly an appointment with a psychologist, dietician or even psychiatrist.

Avoidance of caffeine and other stimulants, regular sleep patterns and at least 1 hour of exercise a day will significantly reduce anxiety. Keeping busy and setting goals helps to treat depression which might be the underlying cause. If you need a few benzodiazepines to overcome agoraphobia and/or GAD to let you get out and begin this process, then a doctor might consider it an option.

But they are aware that benzodiazepines often result in negative outcomes. Benzos suspend the grieving process, for example. So are contra-indicated even for certain rare events. If you have to give the eulogy and suffer severe anxiety for speaking in public, they might give you a couple of 5mg diazepam. Flying is also a common fear and again you might get 2 or 3 for the trip out and 2 or 3 for the return trip.

Doctors are only too well aware that drug-seeking behaviors are most commonly encountered with the benzodiazepines. That their are ALWAYS benzodiazepines available on the street - benzodiazepines that have come from prescriptions makes them rightly concerned. After all, in the past some doctors prescribed so freely that their is a generation of people who are prescribed a LOT of benzodiazepines and will continue to do so for the rest of their lives because detoxification would be too hazardous. Often the person simply keeps on getting repeat prescriptions and just puts them in a cupboard... until a younger person points out that they have hundreds or even thousands of pounds worth of drugs just sat there. My own grandmother had over 200 temazepam in her home when she died. I had no idea, none of us did.

Opioids, while more tightly controlled, are often, one might say USUALLY kept by the elderly as a way to take back some control. Like my grandmother, they conclude that if things get TOO bad (and for that generation, I mean 1930s bad), they have the option of a clean death. I know people are still discovering bottles of Quaaludes in home clearances.
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I know you are extremely well informed in the field, and I agree with the majority of what you say, and see the sense in it, however it really has not been my experience that most benzos are only active for a few weeks.

I don't know if I'm some kind of anomaly, and I haven't just used Etizolam, I have used a range of benzos, mostly dictated by whatever it was possible to acquire at the time. For several months I successfully used those 'street' Xanax bars. I have no idea what the dosage was meant to be per cube, (If I had to guess I'd say they were 2mg active ingredient per cube, but they may have been only 1mg) but I discovered that each of the 4 cubes per bar weighed around 80mg and by crushing them down into powder and weighing out doses I found that for several months doses in the range of 16-20mg per morning would help me enormously with my social anxiety. This dose wasn't pure active ingredient, it was including all the fillers and binders. For some time I would generally only take it during the working week, and have weekends off.

Admittedly, over the course of 6 or 7 years the effective dose required has crept up to 60mg, but that is still less than 1 cube. Dosing the bare minimum required to achieve the desired effect is key to keeping tolerance as low as possible IME.

With regard to Etizolam, to this day, I don't understand the 'reverse tolerance' thing that it is said to have, but that is probably helping too.

My Grandmother also acquired an enormous stockpile of prescription medications. In her case it was Codeine, and she had dozens upon dozens of unopened boxes of 100 pills. I don't know why my uncle, who was her carer, didn't stop the prescription, as she was clearly getting prescribed way more than she needed. Most of my family are very law abiding so there is no way this would have been done for the street value of those drugs. He's probably taken them all back to the pharmacy, just maybe keeping a few boxes for his own use, should he ever find himself in need of the pain relief, but most likely he will have taken them all back, since my Grandmother sadly passed away a few months ago.
 
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Doctors are generally informed by papers that use studies using large cohorts. Their ARE papers referring to a single patient, but these papers are usually written by MDs rather than PhDs and so often their methodology isn't as clear as one might wish. No insult to them, I'm glad that I don't have to deal with patients directly.


ID ↕ Time add. ↕ Title ↕ Series ↕Author(s) ↕Publisher ↕Year ↕PagesLanguage
Depression and Anxiety vol. 22 iss. 2 pp.59—67
Results of a naturalistic longitudinal study of benzodiazepine and SSRI use in the treatment of generalized anxiety disorder and social phobia
DOI: 10.1002/da.20089 a a		Russell G. Vasile; Steven E. Bruce; Robert M. Goisman; Maria Pagano; Martin B. Keller2005English
F1000 - Post-publication peer review of the biomedical literature
Faculty of 1000 evaluation for Association of panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, and benzodiazepine treatment during pregnancy with risk of adverse birth outcomes.
DOI: 10.3410/f.731119741.793536860 dataset l		Robakis, ThaliaFaculty of 1000 Ltd2017 September 19
JAMA Psychiatry vol. 74 iss. 11 pp.1145
Association of Panic Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and Benzodiazepine Treatment During Pregnancy With Risk of Adverse Birth Outcomes
DOI: 10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2017.2733 a a		Yonkers, Kimberly Ann; Gilstad-Hayden, Kathryn; Forray, Ariadna; Lipkind, Heather S.2017 November 01English
American Journal of Psychiatry vol. 159 iss. 2 pp.321—321
Benzodiazepine Discontinuation in Generalized Anxiety Disorder
DOI: 10.1176/appi.ajp.159.2.321 a a		GUPTA, RAHUL ;GUPTA, NITIN ;AVASTHI, AJITAmerican Psychiatric Association Publishing2002 FebruaryEnglish
The Journal of Clinical Psychiatry vol. 61 iss. 2 pp.91—94
Prior Benzodiazepine Use and Buspirone Response in the Treatment of Generalized Anxiety Disorder
DOI: 10.4088/jcp.v61n0203 a a		DeMartinis, Nicholas ;Rynn, Moira ;Rickels, Karl ;Mandos, LauraPhysicians Postgraduate Press, Inc2000 February 15English
Journal of Medical Sciences vol. 36 iss. 5 pp.194
Using benzodiazepine detoxification and cognitive behavioral psychotherapy in the treatment of a patient with generalized anxiety disorder comorbid with high-dose zolpidem dependence
DOI: 10.4103/1011-4564.192831 a a		Chou, Han-Wei ;Lu, Shen-Hua ;Tzeng, Nian-ShengMedknow2016English
Molecular Psychiatry vol. 2 iss. 6 pp.463—471
Cerebral benzodiazepine receptor binding and distribution in generalized anxiety disorder: a fractal analysis
DOI: 10.1038/sj.mp.4000329 a a		Tiihonen, J; Kuikka, J; Räsänen, P; Lepola, U; Koponen, H; Liuska, A; Lehmusvaara, A; Vainio, P; Könönen, M;[...]1997 OctoberEnglish
Psychoneuroendocrinology vol. 24 iss. 2 pp.243—249
Benzodiazepine-induced chemotaxis is impaired in monocytes from patients with generalized anxiety disorder
DOI: 10.1016/s0306-4530(98)00079-1 a a		P. Sacerdote; A.E. Panerai; L. Frattola; C. Ferrarese1999 FebruaryEnglish
Journal of Psychopharmacology vol. 26 iss. 4 pp.461—470
Switching from long-term benzodiazepine therapy to pregabalin in patients with generalized anxiety disorder: a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial
DOI: 10.1177/0269881111405360 a a		Hadley, S. J.; Mandel, F. S.; Schweizer, E.2011 June 21English
Biological Psychiatry vol. 20 iss. 8 pp.832—842
Topographic EEG changes with benzodiazepine administration in generalized anxiety disorder
DOI: 10.1016/0006-3223(85)90208-2 a a		Monte S. Buchsbaum; Erin Hazlett; Nancy Sicotte; Marsha Stein; Joe Wu; Mark Zetin1985 AugustEnglish
Biological Psychiatry vol. 43 iss. 10 pp.767—773
Peripheral benzodiazepine receptor messenger RNA is decreased in lymphocytes of generalized anxiety disorder patients
DOI: 10.1016/s0006-3223(97)00279-5 a a		Paola Rocca; Anna Maria Beoni; Carola Eva; Patrizia Ferrero; Enrico Zanalda; Luigi Ravizza1998 MayEnglish
Value in Health vol. 12 iss. 7 pp.A357
PMH38 COST-EFFECTIVENESS OF PREGABALIN VERSUS ISRS/ISRN IN BENZODIAZEPINE-REFRACTORY OUT-PATIENTS WITH GENERALIZED ANXIETY DISORDER: AN ECONOMIC EVALUATION UNDER MEDICAL USUAL PRACTICE IN MENTAL HEALTH CENTERS
DOI: 10.1016/s1098-3015(10)74757-4 a a		JM Olivares; E Alvarez; JL Carrasco; A Barrueta; V López-Gómez; J Rejas2009 OctoberEnglish
Biological Psychiatry vol. 29 iss. 9 pp.143
The use of the nonbenzodiazepine, alpidem, a selective omega 1 and 3 benzodiazepine receptor ligand, in generalized anxiety disorder : Bruce I. Diamond, Ph.D., Emelia O'Neal, M.Ed., Richard L. Borison, M.D., Ph.D., Mark Kaffeman, M.S., Rachel Ochs, M.D. Medical College of Georgia, Augusta, GA 30912
DOI: 10.1016/0006-3223(91)91183-r a a		1991 MayEnglish
European Psychiatry vol. 27 iss. supp-S1 pp.1
P-147 - A comparative cost-analysis of initiating pregabalin or SSRI/SNRI therapy in benzodiazepine resistant patients with generalized anxiety disorder
DOI: 10.1016/s0924-9338(12)74314-6 a a		J.M. Olivares; J.L. Carrasco; E. Alvarez; M. Perez; V. López-Gómez; J. Rejas2012 JanvierFrench;English
European Psychiatry vol. 27 iss. supp-S1 pp.1
P-148 - Utilization of concomitant anxiolytic treatment in benzodiazepine-resistant patients initiating pregabalin or SSRI/SNRI for the treatment of generalized anxiety disorder (GAD)
DOI: 10.1016/s0924-9338(12)74315-8 a a		E. Alvarez; J.L. Carrasco; J.M. Olivares; V. López-Gómez; M. Perez; J. Rejas2012 JanvierFrench;English
BMC Psychiatry vol. 12 iss. 1 pp.177
Change in healthcare utilization and costs following initiation of benzodiazepine therapy for long-term treatment of generalized anxiety disorder: a retrospective cohort study
DOI: 10.1186/1471-244X-12-177 a a		Ariel Berger, John Edelsberg, Michael Treglia, Jose Ma J Alvir…2012 October 23English
American Journal of Psychiatry vol. 157 iss. 12 pp.1973—1979
Imipramine and Buspirone in Treatment of Patients With Generalized Anxiety Disorder Who Are Discontinuing Long-Term Benzodiazepine Therapy
DOI: 10.1176/appi.ajp.157.12.1973 a a		Rickels, Karl; DeMartinis, Nicholas; García-España, Felipe; Greenblatt, David J.; Mandos, Laura A.; Rynn, Moira2000 DecemberEnglish
Neuropsychobiology vol. 29 iss. 2 pp.69—90
Insomnia in Generalized Anxiety Disorder: Polysomnographic, Psychometric and Clinical Investigations before, during and after Therapy with a Long- versus a Short-Half-Life Benzodiazepine (Quazepam versus Triazolam)
DOI: 10.1159/000119067 a a		Saletu, Bernd; Anderer, Peter; Brandstätter, Nadja; Frey, Richard; Grünberger, Josef; Klösch, Gerhard; Mandl, Magdalena; Wetter, Thomas; Zeitlhofer, Josef1994English
ClinicoEconomics and Outcomes Research pp.157
Pregabalin versus SSRIs and SNRIs in benzodiazepine-refractory outpatients with generalized anxiety disorder: a post hoc cost-effectiveness analysis in usual medical practice in Spain
DOI: 10.2147/CEOR.S31102 a a		Rejas, Javier; de Salas-Cansado, ; Olivares, ; Álvarez, ; Carrasco, ; Barrueta,2012 JuneEnglish
Santé mentale au Québec vol. 28 iss. 2 pp.59—86
Sevrage des benzodiazépines chez des patients souffrant du Trouble d’anxiété généralisée : efficacité d’une intervention comportementale et cognitive; Benzodiazepine withdrawal in patients with generalized anxiety disorder: efficiency of a behavioral and cognitive intervention; La abstinencia de benzodiacepinas en los pacientes con un Trastorno de ansiedad generalizado: eficacia de una intervención comportamental y cognitiva; Desabituação no uso das benzodiazepinas em pacientes que sofrem do Transtorno de ansiedade generalizada: eficácia de uma intervenção comportamental e cognitiva;
DOI: 10.7202/008617ar a a		Gosselin, Patrick; Ladouceur, Robert; Morin, Charles M.; Dugas, Michel J.; Baillargeon, Lucie2004 September 07English;French
Neuropsychobiology vol. 9 iss. 2-3 pp.88—93
Benzodiazepine Effect on Information Processing in Generalized Anxiety Disorder
DOI: 10.1159/000117943 a a

Above are hotlinks on articles comparing benzodiazepines with other classes of medication when dealing with GAD. Alprazolam is listed in the DSM 5 as a specific treatment for GAD, but let us just say that Upjohn was purchased JUST to obtain the patent ownership of alprazolam-class medicines and their is more than a suspicion that the writers of the DSM were 'influenced' to invent GAD and to provide a specific medication... in a single sentence.
 
@AlsoTapered Yeah I take your point that what you say is based on an overwhelming consensus of scientific studies.

Science doesn't put much weight on lone and random individual anecdotes, but there will always be outliers and anomalies, and I seem to be one of them, in my use of, and response to, benzos.
 
Delmonte421 said:
Yes but there is other options like buspar for non-narcotic anti anxiety and panic attacks that can be used instead of a narcotic. So its always worth giving that a try if you have sever social anxiety and depression as I do. I find it difficult to go to the gym and other activities because I am so scared of social interactions etc. I am not joking. I find xanax helps me when I get in real bad anxiety/depression spouts and they come almost daily which sucks. Its so difficult to get predicted what you know works without looking like a drug seeker, you just have to go through the steps and let them try every drug out there until they finally nail the one that has been working because they think differently then the doctor I saw in the last country I lived in.
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Have you tried buspar? How did you find it?
 
MsDiz said:
Have you tried buspar? How did you find it?
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It nothing like a narcotic but it has been helping me with my social anxiety. I just get nervous taking any drug like this b/c im pretty sure there is a link to brain diseases later in life with long term use of such drugs.
 
Delmonte421 said:
It nothing like a narcotic but it has been helping me with my social anxiety. I just get nervous taking any drug like this b/c im pretty sure there is a link to brain diseases later in life with long term use of such drugs.
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I worry about stuff like that too, it’s why I stopped taking omeprazole ffs! 😂

I’m going to have to go to my Dr and ask for something for my anxiety as it’s just at that stage where I’m barely functioning. For some reason I get it worse when I’m driving when driving was the only thing that helped because it was a place where I could spend time and think, ye know? Now I’m thinking of all the bad shit and it’s triggering panic attacks where I have to pull over and calm down.

Buspar had been recommended to me before but I didn’t consider it then, I might now tbh.
 
MsDiz said:
I worry about stuff like that too, it’s why I stopped taking omeprazole ffs! 😂

I’m going to have to go to my Dr and ask for something for my anxiety as it’s just at that stage where I’m barely functioning. For some reason I get it worse when I’m driving when driving was the only thing that helped because it was a place where I could spend time and think, ye know? Now I’m thinking of all the bad shit and it’s triggering panic attacks where I have to pull over and calm down.

Buspar had been recommended to me before but I didn’t consider it then, I might now tbh.
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I take 10mg in the morning and 10 mg at night and it works. I also take xanax too but I wanna stop ALL narcotics including my dumb oxy habit, I have no chronic pain.

I was in a HORRIBLE relationship were believe it or not, I was very much verbally abused and it took a toll on me. When we broke up I had real bad anxiety and buspar got me back out on the dating scene and I found my wife after that break up because buspar gave me the courage to go on a bunch of 1st dates without me stuttering at dinner or having to drink to make myself non anxious.(Use to self medicate with alcohol for my anxiety) I say try buspar but FOR ME I have therapy too and this is what I want to use in the end, not the drugs. I know you feel the same way as I have read your posts. I highly respect you, if I ever say something off color just remember me saying that now LOL
 
Delmonte421 said:
I take 10mg in the morning and 10 mg at night and it works. I also take xanax too but I wanna stop ALL narcotics including my dumb oxy habit, I have no chronic pain.

I was in a HORRIBLE relationship were believe it or not, I was very much verbally abused and it took a toll on me. When we broke up I had real bad anxiety and buspar got me back out on the dating scene and I found my wife after that break up because buspar gave me the courage to go on a bunch of 1st dates without me stuttering at dinner or having to drink to make myself non anxious.(Use to self medicate with alcohol for my anxiety) I say try buspar but FOR ME I have therapy too and this is what I want to use in the end, not the drugs. I know you feel the same way as I have read your posts. I highly respect you, if I ever say something off color just remember me saying that now LOL
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Thanks for that, I’ll give it a go, I really need something right now.

I’m really glad it helped you btw, anxiety is so difficult to deal with.

Don’t worry about off colour posting. We all have shit days, we are all human. It’s all good. ❤️
 
MsDiz said:
Thanks for that, I’ll give it a go, I really need something right now.

I’m really glad it helped you btw, anxiety is so difficult to deal with.

Don’t worry about off colour posting. We all have shit days, we are all human. It’s all good. ❤️
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Thanks! I enjoy very much learning from fertile and you. Weather its philosophical or straight up hardcore med chem.
My anxiety is really bad unless I'm talking about science because im very confident in that but if its about LITERALLY anything besides chemistry, I feel real insecure and I'm always thinking people are judging me, so its hard for me to make friends. I always think the worst and that I always offend people or in someway have made them mad at me lol IDK thats how my anxiety manifests
 
Delmonte421 said:
Thanks! I enjoy very much learning from fertile and you. Weather its philosophical or straight up hardcore med chem.
My anxiety is really bad unless I'm talking about science because im very confident in that but if its about LITERALLY anything besides chemistry, I feel real insecure and I'm always thinking people are judging me, so its hard for me to make friends. I always think the worst and that I always offend people or in someway have made them mad at me lol IDK thats how my anxiety manifests
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I get that completely and it’s also so hard to see people’s intentions over messages online ye know? But I want you to know that I never have ill intent with any of my posts. I come from a place of trying to understand and to help, that’s it. My PMs are always open too, reach out anytime you want. ❤️
 
MsDiz said:
I get that completely and it’s also so hard to see people’s intentions over messages online ye know? But I want you to know that I never have ill intent with any of my posts. I come from a place of trying to understand and to help, that’s it. My PMs are always open too, reach out anytime you want. ❤️
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I greatly appreciate that, the feeling is like wise. Although I doubt I have as much knowledge and experience then you and a few other fellow scientists here. Its humbling in a good way, it always seems the more I know the less I know.... the catch 22 of knowledge.
 
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