Mental Health Anxiety meds which work? (other than benzos)

[emkee_reinvented]

Antipsychotics will kill you. It is only a matter of time.

What are you serious. My dr prescribed it off label as sleep aid to me.

Against the dr's bible advisement's not to do this. The reason the leaflet accompanying the drug no longer lists sleep aid any more. They removed that it after my complain. What assured me that even as a individual you can influence the medical system.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I do know one guy with chronic schizophrenia that came on after heavy weed and LSD use. But that's one person out of countless dope smokers I've known. So I would disagree with "significant" risk. The person has to be predisposed.

They've suspected the link for awhile, but there has been some convincing evidence come out in the last two years.

I smoked heavy from age 12 daily. Also tons of psychedelics. Had a schizo episode later in life, but luckily I recovered after 16 months and no longer have it.

LSD played a big role in triggering it. I also suspect weed played a role as well. But I'll likely never know just how much. I do believe there is a connection, though.

 

[AbbeyLee]

They've suspected the link for awhile, but there has been some convincing evidence come out in the last two years.

I smoked heavy from age 12 daily. Also tons of psychedelics. Had a schizo episode later in life, but luckily I recovered after 16 months and no longer have it.

LSD played a big role in triggering it. I also suspect weed played a role as well. But I'll likely never know just how much. I do believe there is a connection, though.

Yeah there is. I don't like weed much cos it can turn my anxiety into a gigantic panic attack.

An interesting Jungian idea I heard was that things like weed and acid can take you to a part of the psyche which you are not ready for ie. the Self, without the protection of the Ego, the Shadow etc. Chronic schizophrenics get stuck there, so they are like a person treading water in the Unconscious sea without their boat (the other layers of the psyche). Shamans, yogis, mystics, etc are ready for the Self and can go back and forth.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Yeah there is. I don't like weed much cos it can turn my anxiety into a gigantic panic attack.

An interesting Jungian idea I heard was that things like weed and acid can take you to a part of the psyche which you are not ready for ie. the Self, without the protection of the Ego, the Shadow etc. Chronic schizophrenics get stuck there, so they are like a person treading water in the Unconscious sea without their boat (the other layers of the psyche). Shamans, yogis, mystics, etc are ready for the Self and can go back and forth.

I certainly had some very interesting "shadow" like symptoms during that episode. Honestly it was like my subconscious became part of my consciousness. I'll post about it later.

 

[Eryximachus]

What are you serious. My dr prescribed it off label as sleep aid to me.

Against the dr's bible advisement's not to do this. The reason the leaflet accompanying the drug no longer lists sleep aid any more. They removed that it after my complain. What assured me that even as a individual you can influence the medical system.

Recently, it has been reiterated that contrary to the belief of many doctors, the risks associated with antipsychotics are not dose dependent. There is no safe dose.

 

[Eryximachus]

"Significant" in this context refers to statistical significance. The risk may be as high as 1 in 10,000 or as low as 1 in 100,000. No other intoxicant has any statistical association with schizophrenia. Now, we have very little understanding of how marijuana works. This does not mean marijuana causes schizophrenia directly, only that when controlled for all other variables in many studies over decades, the statistical significance remains.

It is entirely possible that there is a genetic component, but that is the case for all psychotropic drugs. It's a game of Russian Roulette that for someone with an anxiety disorder should not be playing however.

For the record, I believe all drugs should be legal and the risk/benefit decision be a free choice for all people. But we need to be honest about the risks. Marijuana somehow today is portrayed as a drug without any risks, which is false.

 

[Conky]

Can olanzapine been taken as needed an not every day to calm a agitated person down don't know if its a 1st gen AP though

Do not take Olanzapine over 2.5mg every day. You will get fat. I took 10mg and in 11 months went from 150lbs - 245lbs. It also blocked my ability to feel pleasure from meth.

 

[Conky]

Marijuana is associated with a wide variety of psychiatric problems. It is the only common intoxicant that carries a significant risk of schizophrenia. If you have any mental health problems, it really should be avoided.

Meh, I have mental health problems and I smoke hash every night to sleep. I was on Quetiapine previously and it was awful. Horrendous weight gain.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

Do not take Olanzapine over 2.5mg every day. You will get fat. I took 10mg and in 11 months went from 150lbs - 245lbs. It also blocked my ability to feel pleasure from meth.

Please be mindful that every person is different and each of us may have vastly different reactions to the same medications. Just because you gained a lot of weight from this dose doesn't mean everyone will. Let's leave it between @femaletrouble and their doctor to determine what is a therapeutic dose with the least amount of side effects.

Case in point, Abilify has been known to cause weight gain and even diabetes in some people. I've been on the maximum dose for over a decade and have experienced neither.

 

[Eryximachus]

Please be mindful that every person is different and each of us may have vastly different reactions to the same medications. Just because you gained a lot of weight from this dose doesn't mean everyone will. Let's leave it between @femaletrouble and their doctor to determine what is a therapeutic dose with the least amount of side effects.

Case in point, Abilify has been known to cause weight gain and even diabetes in some people. I've been on the maximum dose for over a decade and have experienced neither.

From everything I've read, and with my own experience with Seroquel, weight itself can be controlled if you're use to a disciplined diet. I was a gear using athlete for a decade, and still live that way. But, going back to my gear days, I'm a pro at reading blood work and get it done privately on a regular basis as I don't trust doctors. I found that while my weight was OK, my blood sugar level was often elevated above 125 mg/dL. Metformin got it down to 100. Multiple tests above 150 mg/dL are typically the threshold for actual diagnosis of Type 2 diabetes.

It's important to remember that like everything, measurements are a blend between what is ideal and what is practical. Consistently having a blood sugar level of 125 mg/dL may not technically be Type 2 diabetes, but you're still risking blindness versus someone with say, 75 as their average.

For you, this risk factor may not matter. And that's fine. But the long-term risk of deleterious metabolic, cardiac and extrapyramidal side effects is universally high for all antipsychotics - much higher than doctors tell patients despite the black box warning.

For many people, the benefits outweigh the risks. For many more, I'm not sure. Personally, I think it is criminal doctors are prescribing antipsychotics instead of benzodiazepines because of a moral panic. Benzodiazepines are among the safest drugs ever manufactured and sold to the public. I'd rather be on benzos for a decade and not have to worry about getting fat, having a heart attack or stroke, or ending up being unable to control my body.

That said, I hope you're stable on your regiment! Cheers.

 

[Eryximachus]

Meh, I have mental health problems and I smoke hash every night to sleep. I was on Quetiapine previously and it was awful. Horrendous weight gain.

I said in another post - studies seem to indicate about 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 100.000 users. The vast majority of users would be unaffected. No other drug carries this kind of risk.

This isn't about anyone in particular, but if someone is going to consider marijuana as an anxiolytic versus other alternatives, they should know that it's a risk the alternatives likely do not have.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

From everything I've read, and with my own experience with Seroquel, weight itself can be controlled if you're use to a disciplined diet. I was a gear using athlete for a decade, and still live that way. But, going back to my gear days, I'm a pro at reading blood work and get it done privately on a regular basis as I don't trust doctors. I found that while my weight was OK, my blood sugar level was often elevated above 125 mg/dL. Metformin got it down to 100. Multiple tests above 150 mg/dL are typically the threshold for actual diagnosis of Type 2 diabetes.

It's important to remember that like everything, measurements are a blend between what is ideal and what is practical. Consistently having a blood sugar level of 125 mg/dL may not technically be Type 2 diabetes, but you're still risking blindness versus someone with say, 75 as their average.

For you, this risk factor may not matter. And that's fine. But the long-term risk of deleterious metabolic, cardiac and extrapyramidal side effects is universally high for all antipsychotics - much higher than doctors tell patients despite the black box warning.

For many people, the benefits outweigh the risks. For many more, I'm not sure. Personally, I think it is criminal doctors are prescribing antipsychotics instead of benzodiazepines because of a moral panic. Benzodiazepines are among the safest drugs ever manufactured and sold to the public. I'd rather be on benzos for a decade and not have to worry about getting fat, having a heart attack or stroke, or ending up being unable to control my body.

That said, I hope you're stable on your regiment! Cheers.

I see what you're saying. I get my blood tested a couple times a year and have the results reviewed separately by my GP and psychiatrist. They usually both catch the same anomalies. For instance, 5 years ago I became what they called borderline pre-diabetic. I wasn't sure if it was my medication or not at the time. At my GPs recommendation I began a rigorous exercise habit (jiu jitsu) and stopped eating ice cream every night before bed. By my next blood test those level were down again.

And you are correct that I am relatively happy on my medication regimen. In fact I began questioning my psych about my meds recently and he told me that Abilify is the weakest of the anti-psychotics, which may account for my having relatively no side effects. Like I say all the time, everyone is different and some people have negative side effects from Abilify but it works for me and I see no reason to stop taking it yet.

On the other hand, I was prescribed a low dose benzo a couple years ago for anxiety but I noticed a day or two after taking it I would come down with a massive headache. I determined the headaches were withdrawal symptoms since I only took the pill very occasionally when I felt anxiety. Not that quitting Abilify wouldn't give me wd symptoms but it is something I take every day so I don't have to worry about withdrawing and apparently tolerance doesn't seem as much of an issue with this particular AP. YMMV

 

[Flynnal]

For many people, the benefits outweigh the risks. For many more, I'm not sure. Personally, I think it is criminal doctors are prescribing antipsychotics instead of benzodiazepines because of a moral panic.

What do you have to say about mirtazapine? I heard that this drug was a good alternative to APs since it doesn't have nearly the same deleterious effects that APs have on the body. I am told it's a fairly benign drug, but it does increase appetite and increases likelihood of indulging in sweet stuff more often than you should.

That said, benzos can cause dementia just like antipsychotics can. It tends to happen more quickly as well, especially if the doses are higher than one should be using. Perfect example is Xanax. I know of one woman who suffers from memory deficits after taking it to control daily panic attacks for only 3 years. I would never prescribe antipsychotics for panic disorder either, so there has be something that can be taken long term. SSRIs come to mind, but they too have their share of nasty side effects - mostly sexual dysfunction and can induce mania if one is bipolar, but aside from that they're much safer than either benzos or APs.

 

[Phoenix_03]

I do agree that meds in the long term are not the answer, and I wish I never tried any of them. What I hate most about benzodiazepines is the anterograde amnesia. I was switched to Seroquel several years ago due to what was in retrospect rather minor benzodiazepine withdrawal. Also a terrible drug, with withdrawals just as bad if not worse. I had to get back on a benzo just to sleep, and now I'm trying once again to quit.

I'm nearly 45, and exercise is increasingly harder.

Without getting into a long discussion, I will simply say that if I could go back in time, I would never have gotten on any drugs. For me, the best solution was to realize high pressure, high paying jobs and the associated life was not possible for me. While drugs helped in the short term, they do become detrimental over time and today effectively do nothing. At 35, I could have moved anywhere in the country rather than stay in New York City. I honestly would rather live in a manufactured home in the middle of nowhere making $75K. But at nearly 45, your options are much more limited.

That is something else I would add. For most people, it is their job(s)/location that causes the most stress. The younger you are, the easier it is to change course.

I grew up in Milford, CT. Sorry, off-topic, just saw your location and said wow, what a small world. Living in this area requires high paying jobs unfortunately, if you want to live in a nice house/condo or whatever, anyway. I lived in another state in the south for several years with a much lower cost of living, but I’m a New England girl at heart, so I came home.

 

[Eryximachus]

What do you have to say about mirtazapine? I heard that this drug was a good alternative to APs since it doesn't have nearly the same deleterious effects that APs have on the body. I am told it's a fairly benign drug, but it does increase appetite and increases likelihood of indulging in sweet stuff more often than you should.

That said, benzos can cause dementia just like antipsychotics can. It tends to happen more quickly as well, especially if the doses are higher than one should be using. Perfect example is Xanax. I know of one woman who suffers from memory deficits after taking it to control daily panic attacks for only 3 years. I would never prescribe antipsychotics for panic disorder either, so there has be something that can be taken long term. SSRIs come to mind, but they too have their share of nasty side effects - mostly sexual dysfunction and can induce mania if one is bipolar, but aside from that they're much safer than either benzos or APs.

I haven't found any evidence that benzodiazepines cause dementia. Anticholeretic drugs (which includes antipsychotics, tricyclic antidepressants, antidepressants derived from Benadryl like Prozac, and many if not most anti-histamines) are the only known causal agents of dementia. The only drugs available for dementia affect choline.

Now, anterograde amnesia is not the same as dementia. I switched from clonazepam to Seroquel 5 years ago for this reason and my memory was fine.

I don't know anything about mirtazapine. I had to stop taking Seroquel (Parkinsonism, it is gone now) and I literally could not sleep at all. When I was quitting clonazepam, I couldn't sleep a full night, but I was functional. Now, I'm on Ativan for sleep. I had to take 2mg(!) to sleep, down to 1mg. Hoping for the best and shooting for August to just suck it up.

 

[Survival0200]

I don't know if you have chlorprothixene (Truxal) where you live, but I've had some benefit from it for anxiety.

 

[Eryximachus]

I grew up in Milford, CT. Sorry, off-topic, just saw your location and said wow, what a small world. Living in this area requires high paying jobs unfortunately, if you want to live in a nice house/condo or whatever, anyway. I lived in another state in the south for several years with a much lower cost of living, but I’m a New England girl at heart, so I came home.

I'm fortunate to have a high paying job that I some how have managed to handle despite various drug issues. The stress is killing me however, and while I have a really nice house, I'd gladly give it up for a manufactured home someplace cheap.

 

[Bleaney]

I found last night and into today that CBD capsules actually do work!

I really am very surprised, because I did not think that they would compare in any way to the efficacy of benzos. But by Christ they do seem to work.

I have bad (mainly social) anxiety and stress due to Autism, and have personally found benzos to be very effective and helpful in managing these symptoms that commonly occur alongside Autism. However, due to the dangers of increasing tolerance, and potential long term dependence and addiction I have been trying to take regular breaks from the benzos. Inevitably though on the self imposed No Benzos Allowed days I have been getting rebound insomnia/anxiety and stress etc and it has been getting more and more difficult to manage what was becoming more and more severe, especially the insomnia, which is the most disruptive aspect of all.

I may just have found the solution though in these CBD capsules. Some kind of alternating dosing between benzos and these CBD capsules may help prevent or at least delay and reduce tolerance build up to both things.

I know everyone is wired differently, but I have heard other people on You Tube etc saying that CBD does actually work. I was very sceptical. But yeah, all good. For some reason the sublingual oil droplets don't seem to work at all. Unless maybe you take loads and loads but then it would just not be economical.

<snip>

 

[n3ophy7e]

I found last night and into today that CBD capsules actually do work!

I really am very surprised, because I did not think that they would compare in any way to the efficacy of benzos. But by Christ they do seem to work.

I have bad (mainly social) anxiety and stress due to Autism, and have personally found benzos to be very effective and helpful in managing these symptoms that commonly occur alongside Autism. However, due to the dangers of increasing tolerance, and potential long term dependence and addiction I have been trying to take regular breaks from the benzos. Inevitably though on the self imposed No Benzos Allowed days I have been getting rebound insomnia/anxiety and stress etc and it has been getting more and more difficult to manage what was becoming more and more severe, especially the insomnia, which is the most disruptive aspect of all.

I may just have found the solution though in these CBD capsules. Some kind of alternating dosing between benzos and these CBD capsules may help prevent or at least delay and reduce tolerance build up to both things.

I know everyone is wired differently, but I have heard other people on You Tube etc saying that CBD does actually work. I was very sceptical. But yeah, all good. For some reason the sublingual oil droplets don't seem to work at all. Unless maybe you take loads and loads but then it would just not be economical.

<snip>

Hey I'm really glad to hear you've had such great success with CBD! I'm a huge believer in its merits However I just edited out the exact product and store details because CBD products are not yet legal in all countries (I know I know ) and this is an international forum. All the best!!

 

[Jen X]

clonidine helps when i'm detoxing so i would image it would do something.