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Anti-PCP?

swilow

Sr. Moderator: AADD, CE&P, TD
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Mar 9, 2005
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PCP seems to encapsulate many of the bizarred issues involving drugs, as it is highly indicated in psychotic and violent reaction. Drug myhts, particualrly hallucinogenic drug myths, seem to have an actual basis inreality when it comes to PCP. Now, I've never taken it and never will, plis I've never even seen it, so I'm totally using hearsay for my opinion- however, I take erowid to be a truthful and reliable source, definitely not into propaganda and hysteria. Below is a quote from the site;


This is taken from erowid, specifically http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/pcp/pcp_info1.shtml

"Patients ingesting small amounts of phencyclidine present prominent
body image distortions (enlarging limbs, detached head) on a background
of sensory blockade described as a "numbness", depersonalization,
"sheer nothingness" or "endless isolation". These patients feel inebriated,
are usually disoriented, and sometimes have amnesia for the experience.
Somatic sensation is dissociated: patients lose track of their bodies and
are at risk of seriously injuring themselves because they do not perceive
pain. Though visual, auditory, and tactile illusions and delusions (especially
of being God, the devil, or an animal) are common, frank hallucinations are
relatively uncommon when compared with those produced by LSD. Anxiety
and, sometimes, outright hostility may be present. Disrobing in public
is seen in a small percentage of patients. Perhaps the hallmark of PCP
intoxication is the recurring delusion of superhuman strength and
invulnerability resulting from the analgesic and dissociative properties of
the drug. Intoxicated patients have been known to snap hancuffs and, unarmed,
attack, large groups of people or police officers. This loss of fear has
led patients to try to stop a train by standing in front of it, to grossly
mutilate themselves and others, to climb into a polar bear's cave to take
a picture, and to jump from windows or cliffs. The bizarre behavior is often
violent, sometimes with gruesome mutilation of both the patient and his
or her victim. One intoxicated abuser pulled out his front teeth with a
pair of pliers. Another woman fried her baby in cooking oil. There are many
reported assaults of friends and strangers, both with and without weapons.
Many of these violent acts are committed by drug users who were
previously totally nonviolent individuals."

...

In the spirit of harm reduction, I would say that PCP should NOT be used- as said on erowid, its these sort of crazy drugs that "fuel prohibitionists". I think PCP use is detrimental to the drug cause because it means that us more responsible drug takers are stigmatised along with the psychotic PCP user and heaped into the same bundle.

If we ever want drugs to be legal and accepted, substances like PCP should not be used. SAY NO TO PCP!!!!
 
I wanna know who tried to snap a picture of a polar bear by climbing into its cave.

in my opinion pcp is right up there with methanphetamine. Just something that should be used only in a medical enviroment.
 
I dunno I've done PCP and never had any problem with it. I think that it, like all drugs, depends on the individual. I mean its not a very common drug and if we want to talk about adding fuel to the prohibitionist fire then we should really look at things like coke,meth,heroin, hell even weed results in more crime and harm to soceity than PCP.
 
I find that Erowid excerpt to be a little sensational, and hell, Erowid is run by people, and those people I believe have a negative attitude towards PCP.

That being said, I don't like it either. But there are a number of people who love it, and many of them never do anything violent on it. There definitely are a lot of reports about violent actions on PCP, but then again, alcohol is great for bringing out your violent tendencies. I think that PCP, like all other drugs, simply brings out what you have deep within yourself already.

Anyway, I won't ever use PCP, and I would feel nervous I think if I was around people on it, but I don't think it's inherently evil or anything.
 
That literature you quoted is old literature from the 70's when they were hyping PCP. I did PCP about 30 times back in the 70's and me and my friends never got violent or had bad reactions. Very high doses did turn us into helpless babbling infants but what do you want for a dissociative anaesthetic? I guess some people have bad reactions to it but I've never seen it.
 
^^^ (Gloggawogga) just seems to be a high proportin when compared to either no drugs or other substances. I don't think its 'inherently eveil', nothing is, but its mechanism of action seems to take away something essential to being human- maybe its fear reactions or instinctual thinking, I don't know. Humans possibly can't do without this thing whatever it is.


Chapter 33 Phencyclidine (PCP) written by Toby L. Litovitz, M.D. pg. 448-455

.. History of PCP as a anesthetic, but that it produced psychotic reactions
in 15 to 20 percent of patients for 3 to 18 hours


Thats a huge percetange. My idea is summed up here-

"Woah! Sounds damn bad. Highly not recommended, be careful this stuff
is rarely sold for what it is. It is making another round right now.
This is the kind of stuff that fuel prohibitionists, avoid it, tell
others and spread the word. Print this out and distribute it. It
is not just propaganda, the source of this information is highly
reliable".

For drugs to be legal, massively unpredicatble, dehumaizing things like PCP should be avoided, and that information should be passed along. Ultimately, I hope all drugs are legal (inclduing PCP) but is consdiered so unpleasant that no-one really wants to. DMT and salvia have intense and dramatic effects, but of a nature that usually renders one incapable or undesirous of movement, and whislt extremely disorienting (DMT is the strongest drug I've ever encountered, in terms of subjective reality replacement) these natural psychedelics seem to engender feelings of love, peace, serenity and the connectedness of life, so even is someone is completely out of it, under the influence of DMT, they aren't usually going to be violent or frightening.

Look personally, I don't even like being on K or being around people on K... I've seen close friends on K crawling around, drolling and barking, looking absoltuely inhuman- that shit fucks wiht my head.
 
I think PCP gets a bad reputation. Not that I think its really safe, or everyone should have access to it, etc.. but I think it gets demonized more than it should be. I also think some of the times people get caught acting delirious from some anticholinergic agent, that people assume its PCP because they read/heard that PCP makes people think they can fly or go totally fucking nuts.

If it was around me, I'd try it. But I love K and nitrous, and probably dissociatives in general. DXM's effects are interesting, but it leaves me messed up for days and I just can't stand it.
 
^^^I love nitrous too, its great. On a totally different par to k/traditional dissociates, very euphoric and fun in general.

Doesn't PCP have short lived anticholinergic effects or some such thing? It seems to create more delusions then hallucinations, which is reminessnt of anti-c's.
 
^^^Dude, that looks like hell. Seeing that sort of shit really disturbs me to be honest. Good reason not to take PCP.

That video sort of confirms what I'm saying. The guy seems fucking unpredicatble, almost like a drunk child . . . .
 
Can someone help shed some light on what the effects of PCP are like? I've done K a bunch of times, both in and outside K Hole doses. How similar is it to K? Is it more like the K Hole or does it just give those feelings of floating and sinking? And is it more speedier than K? That's one of the strange things about K, that it's so stimulating but will leave floored on your arse not wanting to move.
 
Id love to try some pcp, the only dissociative ive taken was DXM but that was in cough medacine, it was decent nothing special though.
 
.. History of PCP as a anesthetic, but that it produced psychotic reactions
in 15 to 20 percent of patients for 3 to 18 hours

Thats a huge percetange.

You can find lots of old studies on psychedelics saying they made people "psychotic". LSD was originally classified as a "psychotomimitic", which means literally "mimicing psychosis". When they did those studies they had people in hospital rooms being tied down by men in white coats. And so they said they were "psychotic" Just how do you diagnose "psychosis"? DSM-IV? Please. One persons "psychosis" is another person's religious experience.

Shit, you can even find studies today that cannabis causes "psychosis".

The guy seems fucking unpredicatble, almost like a drunk child . . .

Which means PCP can be about as bad a alcohol.
 
You can find lots of old studies on psychedelics saying they made people "psychotic". LSD was originally classified as a "psychotomimitic", which means literally "mimicing psychosis". When they did those studies they had people in hospital rooms being tied down by men in white coats. And so they said they were "psychotic" Just how do you diagnose "psychosis"? DSM-IV? Please. One persons "psychosis" is another person's religious experience.
Bingo!!! People who are uneducated about the effects of certain drugs think a person is experiencing psychosis when they could just be on a big dose.

So many of the uneducated saps out there in my local rave scene think a K Hole is an overdose of K.
 
^ From my single PCP experience (which was on the low side, dosewise), it's more likely than ketamine to produce an agitated state where you try to get up and do things (generally triggered by some confused thought that starts to manifest itself as feeling uncomfortable). Generally it's something like switch off a piece of music that changes your mood - and isn't always a sucessful action! In terms of how they feel, ketamine for me is like a dissociative state that someone has blended with a small amount of an opiate and generally leaves me utterly happy not to move a muscle. PCP was like the same dissociative state, but with a small amount of coke like stimulation (for me, coke always produces a fuzzy headed feeling that I can't sa I like) - that inclines you to want to do things with the excess energy feeling. It also means that the fluctuations in mood are more extreme.

I never chopped anybody up or damaged myself under the influence, but I must say that I'm in no hurry to repeat the experience as the wooleyheadedness that follws dissociatives use lasts much longer after PCP than with ketamine and generally feels 'weirder' (whereas I do have a profound liking for the state produced by ketamine).
 
gloggawogga said:
You can find lots of old studies on psychedelics saying they made people "psychotic". LSD was originally classified as a "psychotomimitic", which means literally "mimicing psychosis". When they did those studies they had people in hospital rooms being tied down by men in white coats. And so they said they were "psychotic" Just how do you diagnose "psychosis"? DSM-IV? Please. One persons "psychosis" is another person's religious experience.

Shit, you can even find studies today that cannabis causes "psychosis".



Which means PCP can be about as bad a alcohol.

Fair enough, I don't wanna argue the the meaning of psychosis . . . .Sure LSD was a 'shizotoxin' or 'psychomimetic' to some researchers, but even so, I have never seen statistics like that regarding LSD, maybe because it doesn't do that sort of things to people and PCP does. With LSD, most of the bad stuff you hear is ismply propaganda- I'm concerned that PCP 'lore' is actual fact, but because of general cycnism towards drug laws (which is warranted of course), many will assume that the detrimental effects are more hype; in the cas of this dissociative, I'm not sure it is just hype.

Hey alchohol is bad- however, as a depressant, alchoholic rages don't involve mania, which I find really disturbing, as manic states can introduce extreme violence and, indeed, extreme strength and will. I'm not going to deefnd or even approach the topic of alchohol in comparison with other drugs though.

I want my psychedelic drugs of choice to be legal, because I don't like feeling that my freedom is a crime- however, thats going to be a hard stance to adopt if I was to incldude PCP in the same category with DMT, LSD, mescaline, etc. It sullies their good name.... :)
 
college_dropout said:
Bingo!!! People who are uneducated about the effects of certain drugs think a person is experiencing psychosis when they could just be on a big dose.

So many of the uneducated saps out there in my local rave scene think a K Hole is an overdose of K.

That guy in the video is experiencig a high dose obviously; that doesn't excuse the way he's acting though. Whether he is psychotic or not, the behaviour of people on extreme doses of PCP can be threatening and intimidating. I'm sure the study I quoted which said psychotic reaction occured in 10% was really refferring to that sort of reaction- catatonia, sponatneous violence, inane babbling. This reaction doesn't last, so technically I nguess its not 'psychosis', but its still pretty nasty I think. Words are just words after all.
 
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