ANR Treatment for opioid detox…is it legit?

[Keif' Richards]

I've heard in the past of programs that claim to take a person from Opioid-dependent to "normal" in a matter of 72 hours. It was probably 10 years ago that I first heard of such a thing. This is an indication, in my opinion, that the treatment was never really feasible. If it were feasible, we hospitals would be all over it, as they wouldn't need to staff a detox center.

This sort of thing made sense to me back then. Now that I'm older, I have major doubts that such a thing could ever work. If the treatment is like the type I'm thinking of, it involves sedating a person and pumping them full of Opioid antagonists, theoretically allowing the person to experience the whole horror of the withdrawal process while under anesthesia. If this were a truly feasible thing, then why do people with dependencies receive Naloxone that puts them into full withdrawal, only to have their tolerance, habit and dependency resume once the Naloxone wears off? I think they're missing a major piece of the puzzle. This all takes a long time. It can't be done overnight.

Ibogaine is something that has always interested me. I hear a lot of success stories, though I've also heard from folks who it did not work for. I guess this is the nature of any kind of treatment though. It's hard to find Ibogaine-recipients, as the treatment is illegal in a lot of the developed world, including the largest consumer of Opioids in the world, the United States.

This is further complicated by the fact that, if treatment must be taken in an informal setting in international waters or whatever, there isn't going to be the necessary oversight that guarantees a person is actually getting what they think they're getting.

A lot of people seem to think, and it's not at all a strange suggestion, that Ibogaine has not been given its fair chance as the market for maintenance drugs, more specifically Buprenorphine that Methadone, would be devastated by such a treatment. Buprenorphine implies a potential for lifetime treatment, whereas Ibogaine supposedly cures the problem with one or two treatments.

 

[Shant]

I hear you Richard, I’m leaning skeptical as well. But let’s put it this way…if it turned out that you could indeed sedate someone & pump ‘em full of antagonists and they wake up feeling normal in 2 days…I certainly wouldn’t be shocked. I’ll tell you why. Once I OD.d and was given a naltrexone injection. Boom, massive PWD. I’m writhing around in the ambulance bed til I get the liquid Ativan. I sleep for 5 hours. When I awoke I felt shockingly normal. Like damn near 100%. Say 93%. That continued for 4 days. I couldn’t believe I was about to walk away that easy.

Now, to answer your question, why did I them relapse? Because of the ultra rapid nature of the detox, I was still every bit the addict psychologically as I was 4 days prior. Triggers everywhere, with no preparations made in advance to avoid those triggers because it was an unforeseen OD. Hell I didn’t even trash my stash that whole time like a moron. Shocked I lasted that long.

But what if I had planned for it? What if there was inpatient rehab waiting for me straight from the hospital? It realistically coulda worked. Also, that was low to moderate dose naltrexone for 5 hours. What about way high dose for 2 days? I’ve finally beaten long term fentanyl (& friends) for 3 months straight & I still feel shitty (60%) as compared to the 5 hours of ativan/naltrexone. Do I think it’s more likely to work than not? No, less likely. But probably not by much. Am I crazy?

 

[Shant]

Also, Richard, you stated initially that using antagonists & sedation wouldn’t likely work, but later said you could see ibogaine working which presumably would be used the same way as say naltrexone. So what if you use Ibogaine as the antagonist plus sedation?

 

[Shant]

Sorry, Keith not Richard.

 

[Rachrach]

Dr. Waisman's newest dog & pony show is simply Rapid Detox sans the copius amount of morphine for the 2 days before anesthesia. The new endeavour claims to recalibrate receptors, something impossible no matter how & what you use, no matter the duration.

 

[cdin]

Excellent stuff, I really appreciate the debate. Rachrach, I’m inclined to agree with everything you’ve said. The Ibogaine doesn’t pass the smell test. The idea that receptors can be fully up regulated in a matter of days is absurd on its face so I can’t trust anything else he says.

That’s not to say it wouldn’t be a good option in some cases…if you’ve got the 12k. I think it would’ve been a good option for me when U was still on fentanyl. Would’ve been a good head start anyway. I dropped the tramadol, Kratom is sustaining me so I guess that’s still progress.

I also agree that it’s highly unlikely that a 2 decade addict like me will ever get back to 100%. I can certainly get clean and be “happy” again, but surely not as happy as I would’ve been had I never used.

Highly appreciate all the responses.

Have used ibogaine twice. It absolutely works as advertised. It’s a schedule 1 narcotic in US. The history is fascinating - Howard lotsof tried to get us government to use it but same year methadone program was approved and ibogaine made schedule 1. However - there is a recent Harvard study where a single moderate oral dose produced an 85% remission of symptoms rate in veterans with traumatic brain injury and ptsd.

I personally took it once for heroin addiction, once for ptsd. Both times presented a full resolution of symptoms within a 48 hour period. And you want to hear some crazier shit than just ope receptors being better in that time period: also my guts were fine without much trouble, and I had new veins. Some measure of vascularity was regained in a 48 hour period

 

[oddvortex]

Amazing story thanks for sharing wonderful transformation

 

[Jnowhere]

You are talking about something that has nothing to do with anything I have mentioned. "Quitting" and the ability to feel the same joy & happiness as someone who, for example, is opioid naive, are completely unrelated.

Nobody can quantify your subjective consumption & its parameters apart from you. If you were an IDU who injected 3 times a day for years on end before your brain matured, then you almost certainly are not going to feel joy & happiness as you would have had you never used. There are perhaps abberations, far outliers, & who can say? Maybe you just happen to be one but in literature the result is universal. Subjectivity is worthless but if it matters, I am going to turn 57 in 1.5 weeks & became addicted to morphine at age 17.

I can explain it in detail but I am not sure that I should. The forum is not geared for it, nor would anyone care. Certainly it would not change what you claim.

Do you know if serious alcohol abuse before age 26 can cause permanent brain issues?