Benzos Another switching from Diazepam to Clonazepam thread (Last one).

[UtterlyConfused]

As I said in another post, I have Cervical Dystonia/Myoclonus that effects my neck, cranial and facial muscles. The Diazepam isn't really designed for that and I'm pretty sure that I am tolerant. Anyway, I'll be switching directly over from Diazepam 10mg 3x Daily to Clonazepam 1 1/2 mg 3x Daily. I start my Clonazepam on the 15th but I take my Morning dose well before the Pharmacy opens. I know the structures/actions and half lives of both meds are different but I'd like to know what to expect for 3 reasons. *Note - Even before I switched to Diazepam, when even though I have this condition, I could still drive and stand/walk better. After switching to Diazepam/Baclofen it's been all downhill. All downhill. The relevance of this is in question #2.

1.) Can I take my morning Diazepam and then start my Clonazepam in the afternoon/nighttime?

2.) The reason for my initial question is because I cannot tolerate this ...tolerance, (highly suspected/baclofen probably exacerbating it), and myoclonus all day. I'm in a constant state of spasms and twisting. Neck/Migraines/Jaw etc...and I also...am a going to be a Groomsman the very next day. Yep.

3.) Should I wait until after the Wedding to start and see what happens or should it be a "smooth transition" if there is such a thing?

Misc; I want to get the Hell off of this Baclofen because it lowers the seizure threshold. But at the same time I get rebound spasticity and other fucked up stuff just going down 5 - 10 mg. I don't even see my Doctor again til September. (Neuro) ....is there anything I can do, no there are no available appointments until then, to prevent that? Other than that, I'm more curious about the Diazepam to Clonazepam transition and how that may or may not work out. Thanks.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

There should be no worry about the transition. Just switch between dosages. When it is time for your next diazepam dose, just take the clonazepam, that's that. You should be fine.

And slowly wean off the baclofen as slow as possible. Do not just stop it.. By 2.5 increments a week. Or you will be in pure hell and risk seizures, nightmares, delerium, hallucinations, awful sweating, hyperthermia, anxiety, panic attack, nausea, rebound spasticity, full body rigidity, spasms, etc.

Not worth it. Baclofen doesn't lower the seizure threshold unless you have absence seizures. In fact, unless you are one of these people, it actually raises the seizure threshold. Which is why you can have tonic-clonic seizures and myoclonus from stopping it, but upon cessation, you will not have absence seizures.

 

[UtterlyConfused]

Thanks for the Benzo advice. I was thinking about either doing that the way you suggested or asking if I can do it inpatient in the Hospital. The last 2 taper schedules were to cut back 5 mg every 7 days. I do have Myoclonic Seizures, but I also have spasticity issues. And oh, I didn't know that. I don't have absence seizures. But lately my face and neck will jolt and remain stiff. I only have about 1 - 2 "Good" days a week. Okay, so the transition should be okay. For as long as I've been on these things, I should know about equations/receptor sites etc.. As for the Baclofen, which scares the shit out of my more than Benzo's that in the past I had an "easier" time coming off of, is will, (I know you're not a psychic), but I wonder if I will become even more hypertonic during the taper/after discontinuation. My range of motion already sucks.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

I would not suddenely discontinue one and start the other if you have seizures then. While you taper the diazepam, slowly introduce the clonazepam. That will be your best bet!

Baclofen should scare the shit out of anyone more than a benzo:

http://www.gablofen.com/pdf/gablofen-prescribing-information.pdf

Read the black box warning.

Baclofen is the only prescription medication to explicitly come with a warning to NOT STOP TAKING IT suddenly.

These all apply to the oral formulation as well. I withdrew from an oral overdose of 2000mg and suffered all of those symptoms except rhabdomyolysis:
I had psychosis, high fever, hallucinations, hypermetabolic syndrome (which if untreated is what leads to organ failure, rhabdomyolysis and death), spasticity, full rigidity, seizures, status epilepticus on three occasions, delerium, paranoid delusions, persistent insomnia, myoclonus

This occurred two other times as well.

Worst substance to withdraw from

 

[UtterlyConfused]

Baclofen should scare the shit out of anyone more than a benzo:

http://www.gablofen.com/pdf/gablofen-prescribing-information.pdf

Read the black box warning.

Baclofen is the only prescription medication to explicitly come with a warning to NOT STOP TAKING IT suddenely.

Yeah, I have read all of that. And it scares the hell out of me. LOL - But what I'm wondering, is if when I start tapering as I planned/as you suggested, already being rigid, stiff and hypertonic if that will worsen. Even though I think it made me worse. Every time I've tried to cut back, ear and neck pain, jaw wanting to "dislocate" etc..

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

Is it worse than it was than when before you initiated therapy?

 

[UtterlyConfused]

Yeah, here's where it gets fucked up though. I wasn't great before Baclofen/Botox and being switched to Diazepam. However, even though I am pretty sure it made it worse, I can't come off the Baclofen now and when I tried to skip botox, I couldn't walk and everything was spasming even harder. So, I don't know if it's my condition progressing or I got screwed somehow. I was better before all of that. I still had spasms and was somewhat hypertonic, jaw movement issues, but nothing like this. And my Doctor doesn't know either. I was on Cogentin with no side effects, I was taken off. I tried to go back on a week later and got blurry vision/dry mouth. I also had an adverse reaction to Zanaflex and Artane. I live in an area of the Southern US for right now, and there are only 2 Specialists. I am my Nuero's first Dystonia case, and on 2 occasions, ...he's questioned whether that is actually the correct diagnosis or not. Problem? I can't move back up to PA for a year, and I also can't go on long car trips as it triggers my myoclonus and it looks like I am having full blown epileptic fits. That on top of vertigo and being more agoraphobic now than I ever have been.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

Baclofen is impossible to get off once you are on, that is the problem, and it can cause permanent neurological problems as well.

 

[UtterlyConfused]

Baclofen is impossible to get off once you are on, that is the problem, and it can cause permanent neurological problems as well.

I've been on it for a year and a half. I've read up on all of that stuff. But I still plan on coming off of it. There has to be way to either confirm that's what happened or to alleviate it. With Benzo's, eventually you heal. I have read that a lot of it is just time, diet/antioxidants and other supplements. I don't think I've ever heard of or read of permanent protracted and/or permanent brain damage due to either. I know with Benzo's though, it can take some People 2 years to get back to baseline though.

 

[UtterlyConfused]

Not saying that it can't happen. I just hope that's not the case for you, I or others. I'll do some more research.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

I have permanent neurological damage from and overdose, and from severe abrupt withdrawals. It's 11 months later and hasn't abated .001%

 

[UtterlyConfused]

I have permanent neurological damage from and overdose, and from severe abrupt withdrawals. It's 11 months later and hasn't abated .001%

Sorry to hear that. I hope you can find some way to.... I don't know how it works, get back to functioning. I do wonder though, one time I did OD on Addy's about 20 years ago. I wonder if that can also happen with those?

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

Dunno. I'm talking about a massive 2000mg overdose and subsequent withdrawal, reinitiation for a month, abuse, withdrawal, reinitiation for a week, then withdrawal. And now I am back on.

Thank you, though. I'm hoping Fasoracetam might help. I can never function without baclofen again, though, due to disturbing effects I get without it, which means I have to deal with crippling cognitive deficits whilst on it.

GABA B and VMAT are a little different in their effects and impact on the brain. With that intense GABA B downregulation, you are going to have more kindling and excitotoxicity in withdrawal than any excessive stimulation from an amphetamine overdose.

 

[ovo1024]

Why do you seem so worried? If its because of withdrawal Diazepam has a long half life so If you do go into wd it will be minor and you should definitely have your klonopin by that time unless the pharmacy doesn't have them in stock which in that case you should be able to find a pharmacy that does.

 

[roxi2873]

I have permanent neurological damage from and overdose, and from severe abrupt withdrawals. It's 11 months later and hasn't abated .001%

What are your permanent symptoms? I abused baclofen for 10-14 days a couple years ago until I had a really scary overdose on it. I think I took somewhere in the area of 100-150mg of it, along with a bunch of tramadol. anyway I felt like the drunkest I've ever been in my life x10. I had very blurry and double vision, symptoms of vertigo, extreme weakness and probably other shit I don't remember for 3 fucking days. I thought I had surely given myself brain damage or something. Ever since then I've had lots of twitching, horrible myoclonic jerks (the kind so bad my whole body jerks itself up out of a sleep and while falling asleep) and general just feeling off.. I'm convinced it was the baclofen