Benzos Another hyper-specific valium question?

[Triple Word Score]

Hey guys,

Didn’t expect this to be so long, so left a slightly too long tl;dr at the end.

Hope I’m posting in the right section.

40 male / 190 pounds / 6 foot. Surprisingly perfect blood work and on no medications. Smoke 5-10 cigarettes a day. Good job, unmarried. Friends busy with kids. Pretty lonely.

I have a specific situation that I would like a bit of advice on. I realise this is no substitute for medical advice. I’m very disappointed in my self.

So, I have a long history of polydrug abuse but had been clean for quite a while, save for the occasional drink - which I probably shouldn’t be doing but I don’t have the monkey on my back when it comes to that so I can stop after a few glasses. I don’t find it pleasurable in higher volume.

My life has improved over the past year and a bit, still got my issues and regrets but so does everyone.

Anyway, I’ve searched through the many threads on benzos and I would love opinions on this specific situation (sorry).

Benzos have never been an addictive thing for me, I used to occasionally have get valium or xanax back in my polydrug abuse but would only go on a one or two day binge and had enough other stuff in my system where I never experienced any Benzo-specific aftermath.

Anyway, after a week of some insane insomnia due to (possibly) some kind of virus that left me fatigued and achey (no, not covid), my mind was out of control. I’m a writer and director in advertising and my work week suffered really severely.

I live in a new area and have a new doctor who doesn’t know about my addiction history (I should really have told him which shows an addict is always an addict).

But I said I wanted to avoid any benzos, so he prescribed me Stillnox (Zolpidem/Ambien), which I have never enjoyed, but hoped it would let me sleep just for one night.

I took one 10mg pill and slept for 2 hours, waited another hour then took another, and then instead of falling back asleep had a paradoxical reaction where I had a full-blown physiological panic attack that lasted over an hour and left me with severe anxiety, the latter of which I haven’t experienced since I stopped long term use of “harder” substances way back when.

When I saw the doctor the next morning, he could see how much this paradoxical effect had altered my whole persona into and offered me valium. I was in extreme panic so I caved and took his suggestion. I asked for a short script but when I went to the pharmacy it turned out he’d prescribed me 50 x 5mg pills.

That day, on the aftermath day of my paradoxical reaction to ambien, it took me up to 30mg of valium just to stop the physiological anxiety. After an hour or so, that would return. So during that day and that night of more insomnia, I took around 100mg (over something like 18 hours).

The doctor said the paradoxical reaction could last a few days, and to take a Valium when required, but I know he only meant a few times a day, not 100mg.

That was two days ago. Yesterday I kept fighting off the strange body panicked symptoms while doing the same thing, dosing every time the paradoxical effects of what ambien did to me returned. I had 70mg of valium yesterday to treat it.

I’m now on day three and still not sleeping great but at least it’s not complete insomnia. I woke up in the middle of the night at 2am and couldn’t sleep again so took another 10mg, but didn’t sleep. At 6am I took another 10mg as still felt the paradoxical effects. So that’s 190mg in under 48 hours.

Now I realise that my addictive behaviour comes into this, but I’m not understating the paradoxical effect the ambien had on me and an anxiety that I hadn’t had in a long time (and is the worse case of it I’ve ever had).

Anyway, it’s 7:45 in the morning here in Australia and I have 60 mg left.

I’d love opinions on would I be wise to:

a) throw them out even if/when the crazy physiological feelings return ad ride it out even if have work tomorrrow?

B) take the remaining 60 over the next two days so at least I’ve gone from 100mg to 70 mg to 50 to 30 (or any other dosage combination)

C) Taper even more gradually (if I’m able).

I realise this would seem like a lightweight situation to hardcore Benzo users, but while my life has improved, I still get pretty lonely and prone to negative thoughts, but not bedridden depression which I’m worried this binge might kindle.

And I have a pretty extensive polydrug history (used and eventually kicked weed, speed, meth, coke and a bit of crack, heroin, then suboxone, over a long period), so all that previous baggage obviously comes into play.

I don’t have anyone to talk to about this without disappointing the hell out of them that I caved after such progress.

Thanks so much, here’s the tl;dr

TL;DR:
Clean from long term polydrug abuse for over a year. A weird week of insomnia due to sickness. Didn’t want a Benzo from the doctor. Caved and took an ambien script because I don’t find it pleasurable.

Paradoxical reaction to 20mg ambien have me the worst physiological panic attack ever experienced, and then crazy unstoppable anxiety in the few days since.

Doctor said I’d best take valium. Prescribed me 50 x 5mg. Paradoxical effect continued. Needed 30mg just to ease them, then kept dosing every hour or so when they came back.

Friday: 100mg valium
saturday: 70mg valium
Today: 20 mg since 2am (it’s now 7:30am).

Question is what is the best way to limit the aftermath with 60mg remaining. I know the long half life means it’ll take a few days before I know, but I just want to limit the possibility of whatever happening being made worse.

Specifics on my history in the longer version.

So sorry, even my tl:dr is too long.

Apologies in advance that this sounds so slight in comparison to heavy addiction (which I’ve experienced). Usually I would think nothing of this but after being clean and the paradoxical effect, I’m a little frightened and need my brain and mood to work, and live (and to sleep!).

Thanks so much!

 

[Triple Word Score]

Bumping just in case it’s a time zone thing. Apologies in advance.

 

[negrogesic]

I would do maybe a three day taper with the 60mg, perhaps 30mg, 20mg, 10mg, 0mg (divided in two daily doses, 15mg + 15mg etc). You don't want to drag it out too much or you risk developing a more deeply ingrained dependency.

On a side note I frankly can't see a physiological mechanism to the zolpidem freakout, it sounds like what happened is that you had a psychotomimetic experience due to the hallucinogenic qualities of the drug, and it upset you. The truth is, this really isn't a paradoxical reaction, the drug has psychotomimetic properties that can sneak up on anyone. Most simply fall asleep before it becomes apparent.

I personally liked it and would sometimes take 5-6, or even more, and fight the sleepiness to enjoy the bizarre nature of the delirium.

 

[Triple Word Score]

Thanks for your reply.

Yeah, those were the doctor’s words not mine; re: the paradoxical reaction to the ambien. Whatever happened was a panic attack unlike I’ve ever experienced, so maybe delirium was involved and I wasn’t expecting it.

I’ve never been big on hallucinogenic substances except for controlled set and setting LSD with a girlfriend a few times. And even then it wasn’t all that pleasurable and I’d end up just wanting to smoke weed and sleep. But those days are over and I’m super sensitive psychologically to taking things that I’m not accustomed to.

So maybe the doctor was wrong, but I’ve had zero anxiety during the week of insomnia until I took the ambien, and it’s continued between valium doses ever since.

Thanks again for the reply.

I would do maybe a three day taper with the 60mg, perhaps 30mg, 20mg, 10mg, 0mg (divided in two daily doses, 15mg + 15mg etc). You don't want to drag it out too much or you risk developing a more deeply ingrained dependency.

On a side note I frankly can't see a physiological mechanism to the zolpidem freakout, it sounds like what happened is that you had a psychotomimetic experience due to the hallucinogenic qualities of the drug, and it upset you. The truth is, this really isn't a paradoxical reaction, the drug has psychotomimetic properties that can sneak up on anyone. Most simply fall asleep before it becomes apparent.

I personally liked it and would sometimes take 5-6, or even more, and fight the sleepiness to enjoy the bizarre nature of the delirium.

s for

 

[Triple Word Score]

I would do maybe a three day taper with the 60mg, perhaps 30mg, 20mg, 10mg, 0mg (divided in two daily doses, 15mg + 15mg etc). You don't want to drag it out too much or you risk developing a more deeply ingrained dependency.

On a side note I frankly can't see a physiological mechanism to the zolpidem freakout, it sounds like what happened is that you had a psychotomimetic experience due to the hallucinogenic qualities of the drug, and it upset you. The truth is, this really isn't a paradoxical reaction, the drug has psychotomimetic properties that can sneak up on anyone. Most simply fall asleep before it becomes apparent.

I personally liked it and would sometimes take 5-6, or even more, and fight the sleepiness to enjoy the bizarre nature of the delirium.

And even with your kind suggestion, chances are I’ll get some rebound anxiety a couple of days after the final dose, yes?

It’s funny I used to do binges like this while on other substances but this time I’ll be going from binge to clean again, and I’m surprised how much it’s preoccupying my mind.

 

[negrogesic]

And even with your kind suggestion, chances are I’ll get some rebound anxiety a couple of days after the final dose, yes?

It’s funny I used to do binges like this while on other substances but this time I’ll be going from binge to clean again, and I’m surprised how much it’s preoccupying my mind.

Yes probably (particularly given the context of this situation, i.e. the events that preceeded it).

 

[Triple Word Score]

Yes probably (particularly given the context of this situation, i.e. the events that preceeded it).

Thank you. Such a shame I had that reaction to ambien. I’d take the insomnia and frustration over the anxiety.

Final question and I’ll leave you alone.

I used to use white grapefruit juice to potentiate both specific benzos and opiates. I had no intention of potentiating here, but would potentiating mean it leaves my body at a slower rate and therefore might lessen the rebound anxiety? Or would it have the opposite effect.

I’m tempted just to take the rest tonight or dump them and just deal with it sooner rather than later but im gonna follow your instruction considering the reaction to the ambien.

Cheers, last time I’ll bother.

 

[negrogesic]

Thank you. Such a shame I had that reaction to ambien. I’d take the insomnia and frustration over the anxiety.

Final question and I’ll leave you alone.

I used to use white grapefruit juice to potentiate both specific benzos and opiates. I had no intention of potentiating here, but would potentiating mean it leaves my body at a slower rate and therefore might lessen the rebound anxiety? Or would it have the opposite effect.

I’m tempted just to take the rest tonight or dump them and just deal with it sooner rather than later but im gonna follow your instruction considering the reaction to the ambien.

Cheers, last time I’ll bother.

You probably would be fine if you either took it all now or dumped it, but considering that you probably should have been fine with the ambien, it would follow that you probably should discontinue the diazepam slowly (but not too slowly). You consumed a good amount of diazepam in a short time, and while it lingers in the system for a long, you'll still want to smooth out the manner in which it exits the system.

The white grapefruit juice consumption won't impact much here (in otherwords it isn't much of factor).

Also no need to apologize it is no inconvenience to anyone, welcome to bluelight!

 

[Triple Word Score]

T

You probably would be fine if you either took it all now or dumped it, but considering that you probably should have been fine with the ambien, it would follow that you probably should discontinue the diazepam slowly (but not too slowly). You consumed a good amount of diazepam in a short time, and while it lingers in the system for a long, you'll still want to smooth out the manner in which it exits the system.

The white grapefruit juice consumption won't impact much here (in otherwords it isn't much of factor).

Also no need to apologize it is no inconvenience to anyone, welcome to bluelight!

Thank you. Annoying thing to do, drag this taper thing out for a few days. I don’t like having them in my place, but I’ll be strong!