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Ancient psychonauts?

Ismene2 said:
1) I get it - I'm suggesting the belief system you have is nonsense. That's not easy for people to accept.

2) No they arnt. You can whip yourself every day down the rest of your life and never have the faintest idea what a mushroom trip is like. This is so obvious it's hard for me to grasp how anyone could not understand it. Whipping yourself to abase yourself before a frightening God you read about in a book is nothing like the psychedelic experience. Absolutely nothing. You don't agree?

3)Because the claim is these religions all had psychedelics in their past - if none of them do today why did they "stop"? Of course the obvious answer is they have nothing to do with psychedelics now because they had nothing to do with psychedelics ever. Occams razor - unless you have some bizarre alternative theory?
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Have you ever been flogged, or whipped? S/M can be extremely psychedelic, if done correctly.
 
Ismene2 said:
3)Because the claim is these religions all had psychedelics in their past - if none of them do today why did they "stop"? Of course the obvious answer is they have nothing to do with psychedelics now because they had nothing to do with psychedelics ever. Occams razor - unless you have some bizarre alternative theory?
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I really doubt christianity and the other abrahamic religions ever had psychedelics as part of their rites. Still, it is simply not true that the spiritual practices and narratives of religions have remained the same throught the centuries. There have been multiple "councils", schism, and other instances of filtering what must or must not remain as part of the religious canon. I mean self flagelation was literally a big part of monastic life in early and medieval christianity. So its likely that other practices have also been abandoned. Its not impossible that early hebrews came in contact with psychoactives substances, but I still think its unlikely they ever integrated them into their rites. And as far as I know there is no serious evidence for that.


On the other hand, how can you explain wanting to build this without psychedelic experience? Lol

 
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Img_9999 said
really doubt christianity and the other abrahamic religions ever had psychedelics as part of their rites.
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Yes I agree that it was never a part of any public or frequently observed rite that was openly recorded in a way that can be historically cited.
 
This may have already been posted, but San Pedro was used in rather large ceremonies that likely resembled ancient festivals. What’s interesting is that unlike other psychedelics where only the shaman partook, this was given to large groups sometimes thousands at one time. Music, dancing, etc..

It makes a lot of sense to me after becoming familiar with Mescaline containing cacti, it’s as close to natural MDMA as your gonna get (at the moment.). I can only imagine the love and empathy flowing during these large events.

-GC
 
Ismene2 said:
1) I get it - I'm suggesting the belief system you have is nonsense. That's not easy for people to accept.

2) No they arnt. You can whip yourself every day down the rest of your life and never have the faintest idea what a mushroom trip is like. This is so obvious it's hard for me to grasp how anyone could not understand it. Whipping yourself to abase yourself before a frightening God you read about in a book is nothing like the psychedelic experience. Absolutely nothing. You don't agree?

3)Because the claim is these religions all had psychedelics in their past - if none of them do today why did they "stop"? Of course the obvious answer is they have nothing to do with psychedelics now because they had nothing to do with psychedelics ever. Occams razor - unless you have some bizarre alternative theory?
Click to expand...

1) I don't have strong beliefs about ancient civilizations using psychedelics. I think it's very unlikely that ancient civilizations didn't come into contact with psychoactive substances, but I'm not one of the ones here that is saying they FOR SURE were used, were used by everyone, etc. From what I can tell, my proposition(s) are much more down to earth than yours.

2) Just because flagellation does not produce a mushroom trip does not mean that it can't produce a useful, expansive, altered state. I never said they were the same thing. Also, you continue to show your assumptive orientation to this subject with your comment, "Whipping yourself to abase yourself before a frightening God you read about in a book is nothing like the psychedelic experience." That is a naive and uneducated statement, relative to what we know of indigenous and ancient cultures and their religious/spiritual practices.

3) The claim is not that all of these religions had psychedelics in the past (strawmanning, again). Also, certain traditions not having a relationship with psychoactive substances is in no way evidence for them never having had those relationships. Occams Razor, in this case, does not exclude a change in traditions. There are many simply explanations for why that may be the case.

Poor argumentation, Ismene.
 
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