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Amber Distillate caused by heat

+96+

+96+

Bluelighter
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What's up guys, as I was rinsing out a couple distillate jars I let the iso alcohol sit on a candle warmer for too long and the distillate from the rinse is now dark amber. How much does this effect the potency (if at all)?
 
Even if the candle isn't lit? :)

I understand and I don't. I have an electric candle warmer that is like a miniature hot plate.

18375
 
Do you know if your distillate was already decarbed? How long did you leave it on the warmer?
 
And what temp is that thing set to? It's just a bunch of terpenes and chlorophyl etc doing most of the colour changes. You can still get rid of a lot of that dark colour if you filterwash it with activated charcoal and winterize it.
 
w01fg4ng said:
Do you know if your distillate was already decarbed? How long did you leave it on the warmer?
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Yeah it was, from the research I did I believe all distillate is decarbed. I probably forgot about it for at least an hour.

Blowmonkey said:
And what temp is that thing set to? It's just a bunch of terpenes and chlorophyl etc doing most of the colour changes. You can still get rid of a lot of that dark colour if you filterwash it with activated charcoal and winterize it.
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It doesn't have a temp and when it gets fully heated it can make the jars hard to grab with bare hands. I think you are right about it just being terpenes and chlorophyl.

It's not much so I'm not too worried about it now, I think I'll just take it orally. Took a pic earlier today to share.
 

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+96+ said:
I believe all distillate is decarbed.
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Not necessarily.

Producers have total control over the process and it's pretty much up to them how they extract the oil. I've seen distillate range from not decarbed at all to partially decarbed to fully decarbed. There isn't one right way to do it.

It's not much so I'm not too worried about it now, I think I'll just take it orally. Took a pic earlier today to share.
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Good luck!
 
w01fg4ng said:
Not necessarily.

Producers have total control over the process and it's pretty much up to them how they extract the oil. I've seen distillate range from not decarbed at all to partially decarbed to fully decarbed. There isn't one right way to do it.
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Yes necessarily. THCA is crystaline in high concentrations, not to mention it is decarbed in the vaporization when distilled (if it isn't decarbed in the typical process to prep the oil for distillation). Everything coming in the receiving flask on a still will be an isomer of THCA, likely d-9 or d-8 THC, not THCA.


+96+ said:
as I was rinsing out a couple distillate jars I let the iso alcohol sit on a candle warmer for too long and the distillate from the rinse is now dark amber. How much does this effect the potency (if at all)?
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Probably a fair amount of degradation, as air, heat, and alcohol all speed up the oxidation process. THCA oxidizes into CBNA and THC. THC oxidizes into CBN. This should account for the color change.
 
Mafioso said:
Yes necessarily. THCA is crystaline in high concentrations, not to mention it is decarbed in the vaporization when distilled (if it isn't decarbed in the typical process to prep the oil for distillation). Everything coming in the receiving flask on a still will be an isomer of THCA, likely d-9 or d-8 THC, not THCA.
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Short path distillation preserves the acid group fairly easily. It's just one example of how to make distillate without decarbing your oil.

As these temps begin decarboxylation they are in no way whatsoever it is actually decarbing past around 1-3%, this process doesn’t take much time at all.
https://summit-research.tech/short-path-distillation-procedure/

There are several ways to make distillate, some of which don't decarb the oil.

I'm currently holding distillate that has zero percent decarboxylation. I've actually never even come across CBD distillate that WAS decarbed at all.

ymmv
 
w01fg4ng said:
Short path distillation preserves the acid group fairly easily. It's just one example of how to make distillate without decarbing your oil.
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I think you are misunderstanding the fundamentals of distillation. You are certainly taking a quote out of context, the line you quoted from summit research is actually in the process of PREPARING for distillation correctly. Those temperatures are below the boiling point of THCA for a reason, as it's intended to remove the solvents using a "high temperature(140c) “punch” through all layers removing all water, alcohol, solvents, terpenes, etc..". The reason behind this is stated in the first line of the paragraph you quoted from: " fluid like alcohol anymore, this will create a very violent and unstable foaming and bubbling in the short path apparatus."



" As these temps begin decarboxylation they are in no way whatsoever it is actually decarbing past around 1-3%, this process doesn’t take much time at all. If you load too much fluid in beaker this will rapidly foam and possibly run over the top of the rim. once you have removed all the volatiles, now you should have a properly loaded up flask to begin the process."

It is true that you don't need to decarb your crude before putting it into the boiling flask to begin the distillation process. The end result isn't "distillate THCA", which is a misnomer, as distilled THCA would be an isomer of THC.

And CBD is already decarboxylated, but assuming you meant CBDA distillate(also a misnomer), as a common problem in distilling CBD is the isomerization to d8THC. Huge problem for hemp oil manufacturers, especially those in illegal states. Not sure what you describe is even possible.
 
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Mafioso said:
I think you are misunderstanding the fundamentals of distillation. You are certainly taking a quote out of context, the line you quoted from summit research is actually in the process of PREPARING for distillation correctly.
" As these temps begin decarboxylation they are in no way whatsoever it is actually decarbing past around 1-3%, this process doesn’t take much time at all. If you load too much fluid in beaker this will rapidly foam and possibly run over the top of the rim. once you have removed all the volatiles, now you should have a properly loaded up flask to begin the process."

It is true that you don't need to decarb your crude before putting it into the boiling flask to begin the distillation process. The end result isn't "distillate THCA", which is a misnomer, as distilled THCA would be an isomer of THC.
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Can you show me exactly where in the Short Path Distillation process that THCA is forced into THC?
 
w01fg4ng said:
Can you show me exactly where in the Short Path Distillation process that THCA is forced into THC?
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when the heat breaks the carboxyl group off in the boiling process. Really the burden of proof isn't on me. We know that THCA decarbs due heat, time, and solvents. Room temperature is high enough to facilitate the decarb process, but not completely- at least not over a short period of time. However, we also know that we can increase the heat hot enough to facilitate near full decarboxylation of the majority of the cannabinoids in a short period of time, while still retaining the majority of the THC. This would seem to suggest that the temperature needed to break the bonds holding the carbon is lower than that needed to vaporize the THC. Otherwise this process couldn't be done without losing the bulk of the cannabinoids, unless of course you were re-condensing the vaporized cannabinoids into liquid, ie, distilling.

Can you show me one article on preserving the carboxyl group in the distillation of either THCA or CBDA? Afaik, THCA and CBDA are isolated through other means of separation(mechanical, chemical) in order to preserve the carboxyl group.
 
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I ran thin layer rotary distillation for 27+ years reclaiming solvents in labs. Mostly methanol, but also some dicloromethane, ethanol and a few others.

The material to be purified was in a round bottom flask attached to a rotating condenser (cooled by water and vaccum powered by water). So three things were happening at once; the round bottom flask was constantly rotating providing a thin layer of solvent which easily evaporated, the flask was in a warm water bath and cold water was running through a water jacket which covered the condenser.

We could easily run distillations at very low temperatures; ethanol at 40C, petroleum ether at 30C and so on. Rotary thin film distillation is very useful for purification w/o modification. At the low temperatures used in the labs I worked in. I don't think THCA would have decarbed. Ethanol normally boils at 78C. Ss long as you keep the temperature of the distilling solution below degradation temperature no chemical conversion should occur - just purification.

Tom
 
Thomas Davie said:
Ethanol normally boils at 78C. Ss long as you keep the temperature of the distilling solution below degradation temperature no chemical conversion should occur
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it's an ethanol azeotrope, so it's going to have a higher boiling tem, which is why temps just below boiling are used.. But i'd love to hear how you can bring THCA to a boil without causing decarb.

But hey, even if my theory here is off, there are literally thousands of tests done by people currently making distillate in the industry. Guess what- they consistently test out d9, unless the crude was acidic enough to cause isomerization to d8. Would love to hear how it's possible to make THCA through means of distillation- please explain to me what temps you are using to achieve this process. Even show me a product that claims it's THCA distillate. One link to a THCA DISTILLATE product. Or just keep spreading false information....




Links that come up when searching for "THCA distillate":
In fact, there is no THCA in distillate because it’s always decarboxylated.

Is THC distillate decarboxylated?
Yes. Cannabis is decarboxylated before the process of extraction even starts, which means that by the time you get the distillate, it’s already been decarbed, winterized, extracted, fractionated and distilled.

Encased within this golden drop of goodness is a semi-translucent, 99% pure decarboxylated and distilled tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) sap



Test results for CBD distillate:
CannabinoidPercentage
THCa0.00%
THC0.00%
CBDa0.69%
CBD76.66%
CBN0.00%
CBG4.68%
 
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If the OP doesn't even have information regarding THC/THCA content, how does he even know it's distillate?

Nothing but speculation in this thread.
 
THCA isolate and THC distillate have pretty distinctly different properties. Some highly refined forms of xHO or rosin even can look like distillate, which potentially can be a blend of THCA still suspended in the solution, but it's concentration is going to be relatively low otherwise it will crash out of solution. That would form what is known as diamonds/sauce.

Picture OP posted looks like some darker distillate, which could be a number of things but being that OP stated it changed color after leaving it on a heating element for too long, which is also exposed to oxygen, leads me to believe that it color change is due to oxidation of the cannabinoids sped up by the heat. OP states he thinks it may be chlorophyll and terpenes, with the first being highly unlikely due to the fact chlorophyll shouldn't be in the end product and doesn't appear to be. Terpene oxidation is a possibility, but assuming OP would have to have added them in already or purchased distillate with terpenes reintroduced. Another possibility, as well, is that a percentage of the THC has degraded to CBN, which has an amber color to it.
 
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