am I ok?

[dudunabo2002]

Well, I have a general anxiety disorder and I recently stopped taking drugs and now Im afraid that I could have messed up my body in general. Im pretty young as you can tell by my username, and in the last 2 months Ive taken (in total): 10mg of xanax, 100mg of tramadol, 120mg of codeine and some beers. Am I going to be ok?

 

[Keif' Richards]

Yes. You'll be totally fine. It's really hard to say, but I think you probably would've been A-Ok washing that all down simultaneously. Don't try this at home people, but that's how I feel. It's good that you're worried about your health, but just make sure that it's a helpful and productive worry. Long-term, irreversible effects resulting from drug use typically takes a significant amount of time to develop outside of a catastrophic event.

However, nobody here can actually tell you one way or another in a definitive sense or without even seeing you, so ultimately, you're barking up the wrong tree. Out of everything that you took in that 2 month span, the beer probably was the worst.

 

[Kunmo2]

Over 2 months you did that or everyday for 2 months?

But what the greatest 5 string guitar player said above!

 

[juansalar]

Hello
If you don't object to me recapping, to ensure I've fully understood your experience...
So you're 15 and over the past two months you have taken several xanax pills (1-2mg? What strength?), probably just one or two tramadol pills since 50mg is lowest strength tablet(?) and a number of codeine pills (strengths 15-30mg?)
Oh and some beers.
First off, if this is the extent of the drugs you've consumed regardless of how they were taken (i.e. Even if you had taken them all together at the same time) you most definitely will not have damaged your body in any way. You can relax and stop worrying.
However, what you neglected to mention in your post is how and when you took these drugs.
For physical effects on mind and body, the dosage and administration of the drugs is majorly important. For instance, if you are light weight and small, and have no tolerance, taking 100mg tramadol, 120mg codeine together washed down with several beers could be enough to make you black out. These drugs are opiates and they will depress your breathing and this effect will be extenuated by consuming alcohol. You possibly could suffocate as a result or more likely continue breathing but very shallowly and be mentally insensible to the extent that physical discomfort wouldn't rouse you. In this state there's a significant risk of vomiting as a side effect of opiates and alcohol, and being so far gone that you wouldn't be able to prevent yourself from choking on your vomit and suffocating. This is a common cause of death for the drug usage and situation I've described.
I intentionally left xanax out of the scenario above because:
1. Codeine, tramadol and alcohol are sufficient in themselves to cause death
2. Xanax is a strong benzodiazepines and would multiply the depressive effect of the opiates and alcohol - taking it would be a huge risk and it's likely that taking all these drugs together you'd be absolutely legless and unable to stand. There would be a good chance you'd have to have your stomach pumped
3. I imagine that of all the drugs you took, xanax was the most pleasant experience and hence you took the most of it... I suspect that this is the drug you're most likely to go back to? So I'll treat it separately.

Firstly where did you get all these drugs from? Friends or stolen from a family member. Do you have regular easy access to them?

Xanax is a member of the benzodiazepines (look up in wiki). It's similar to Valium and used to treat depression and anxiety primarily. It's mood altering: makes you feel relaxed, mellow and dozy. And your reaction times are much slower on it: it's easy to have accidents or cut yourself etc
Most importantly It's extremely addictive!!!
Addiction is characterised as mental, emotional addiction i.e. You 'feel' you can't get through the day without it
And physical addiction i.e. Your body becomes dependent on the drug for normal functioning
A daily dose of a low strength tablet for a month is sufficient to cause physical dependency in some people.
I can't emphasise enough that you should stay well away from all drugs, and especially xanax.
If you suffer from anxiety or depression you must seek medical help. You made an opaque reference to 'stopping taking drugs' in relation to your anxiety disorder. Am I correct in thinking you're referring to medicine prescribed for your condition?
What drugs are you talking about?
This is important for a number of reasons. You stopped taking but if you hadn't there possibly could be risk from mixing your medicine with the other drugs and alcohol you took. The interaction of these drugs could potentially be fatal especially if you medicine was a depressant similar to barbiturates or benzodiazepines causing unconsciousness and respiratory failure. Depending on what it is there could also be a risk of liver or kidney damage which if serious could also result in unconsciousness and death.
If your medicine was a SSRI i.e. An antidepressant like Prozac then combining with the other drugs could also have a similar effect to depressants. And if it's a SSRI then stopping taking it could have a severe psychological affect leading to depression and suicidal thoughts. In basic terms it changes your brain chemistry and hormonal balance. Suddenly stopping a high dosage will lead to an absence of endorphins such as dopamine and serotonin, hormones that make you feel happy. Without these endorphins you'll feel empty, in pain, desolate and perhaps suicidal. Abruptly stopping is not recommended in almost all circumstances. The exception is when SSRIs actually have the opposite effect for some individuals; they can make some people feel very depressed and suicidal. It takes 3 weeks to notice any effect of SSRIs and 3 months before the full effect is felt; so people taking them may not experience adverse effects for the first few weeks. If you are taking this drug and have experienced adverse effects it's very important you speak with your doctor and explain how you're feeling. You may have your medication swopped for another similar drug with less side effects or discontinued completely. I took Prozac for 4 months and hated how it made me feel empty and numb, so after consulting with my doctor I stopped taking it.
Anyway you may not be on SSRIs. If you are taking medicine to treat anxiety it could be beta blockers, which are much safer than other drugs used to treat anxiety. Stopping these won't cause major problems. Or you may be taking a more powerful antipsychotic drug, in which case it can be extremely dangerous to abruptly stop taking. Speak with your doctor.
Anyway I've taken the trouble to give you a comprehensive response. I do realise that I have made assumptions that may not have any relevance for you. I've described the most common scenarios I know of and have experience working with. I work in mental health and from what little I know about your situation it seems that although what you've taken poses no serious physical effect on your body (since you haven't choked on your vomit) your mental and emotional state is more of a concern. I worry that you suffer from an anxiety condition and have stopped taking your medication without consulting your doctor. Also the nature of your query and concern suggests that you are currently sufficiently anxious about your health to post on this forum. You need not worry about your physical health as the result of taking drugs but you must take action about your mental health and take good care of yourself. Please seek help. Speak with a trusted family member, adult friend or a clinician or counsellor. (If you choose to speak with your mum be cautious about broaching the subject of drug taking, you don't want to unnecessarily worry her!)
Finally, what were your reasons for taking drugs? Experimentation? Or to change how you feel and self medicate to alleviate anxious feelings?
If it's the former... don't be a wally. At least wait until you're older or at university to experiment safely with friends (I'm assuming you took the drugs alone...? And this is why you're concerned and posting on this site?). Take it from me, dabbling in drugs won't always make you an addict but drugs can lead to addiction and adversely affect your life. They're not worth it.
If it's the latter, then please seek support and don't be tempted to self medicate again. Aside from the real risk of accidental overdose you don't know what you're doing by messing with your mental state and since you have an anxiety disorder you could easily precipitate an anxiety attack or period of depression on the come down. Sometimes drugs are necessary to treat conditions. But often a good nights sleep, social contact, romance and exercise are all better for good mental health.
Take care and be careful. Please feel free to write to me if you have any questions. Apologies if I have made inaccurate assumptions that aren't relevant to your situation - feel free to correct me and clarify the circumstances of your drug use.

 

[dudunabo2002]

Hello
If you don't object to me recapping, to ensure I've fully understood your experience...
So you're 15 and over the past two months you have taken several xanax pills (1-2mg? What strength?), probably just one or two tramadol pills since 50mg is lowest strength tablet(?) and a number of codeine pills (strengths 15-30mg?)
Oh and some beers.
First off, if this is the extent of the drugs you've consumed regardless of how they were taken (i.e. Even if you had taken them all together at the same time) you most definitely will not have damaged your body in any way. You can relax and stop worrying.
However, what you neglected to mention in your post is how and when you took these drugs.
For physical effects on mind and body, the dosage and administration of the drugs is majorly important. For instance, if you are light weight and small, and have no tolerance, taking 100mg tramadol, 120mg codeine together washed down with several beers could be enough to make you black out. These drugs are opiates and they will depress your breathing and this effect will be extenuated by consuming alcohol. You possibly could suffocate as a result or more likely continue breathing but very shallowly and be mentally insensible to the extent that physical discomfort wouldn't rouse you. In this state there's a significant risk of vomiting as a side effect of opiates and alcohol, and being so far gone that you wouldn't be able to prevent yourself from choking on your vomit and suffocating. This is a common cause of death for the drug usage and situation I've described.
I intentionally left xanax out of the scenario above because:
1. Codeine, tramadol and alcohol are sufficient in themselves to cause death
2. Xanax is a strong benzodiazepines and would multiply the depressive effect of the opiates and alcohol - taking it would be a huge risk and it's likely that taking all these drugs together you'd be absolutely legless and unable to stand. There would be a good chance you'd have to have your stomach pumped
3. I imagine that of all the drugs you took, xanax was the most pleasant experience and hence you took the most of it... I suspect that this is the drug you're most likely to go back to? So I'll treat it separately.

Firstly where did you get all these drugs from? Friends or stolen from a family member. Do you have regular easy access to them?

Xanax is a member of the benzodiazepines (look up in wiki). It's similar to Valium and used to treat depression and anxiety primarily. It's mood altering: makes you feel relaxed, mellow and dozy. And your reaction times are much slower on it: it's easy to have accidents or cut yourself etc
Most importantly It's extremely addictive!!!
Addiction is characterised as mental, emotional addiction i.e. You 'feel' you can't get through the day without it
And physical addiction i.e. Your body becomes dependent on the drug for normal functioning
A daily dose of a low strength tablet for a month is sufficient to cause physical dependency in some people.
I can't emphasise enough that you should stay well away from all drugs, and especially xanax.
If you suffer from anxiety or depression you must seek medical help. You made an opaque reference to 'stopping taking drugs' in relation to your anxiety disorder. Am I correct in thinking you're referring to medicine prescribed for your condition?
What drugs are you talking about?
This is important for a number of reasons. You stopped taking but if you hadn't there possibly could be risk from mixing your medicine with the other drugs and alcohol you took. The interaction of these drugs could potentially be fatal especially if you medicine was a depressant similar to barbiturates or benzodiazepines causing unconsciousness and respiratory failure. Depending on what it is there could also be a risk of liver or kidney damage which if serious could also result in unconsciousness and death.
If your medicine was a SSRI i.e. An antidepressant like Prozac then combining with the other drugs could also have a similar effect to depressants. And if it's a SSRI then stopping taking it could have a severe psychological affect leading to depression and suicidal thoughts. In basic terms it changes your brain chemistry and hormonal balance. Suddenly stopping a high dosage will lead to an absence of endorphins such as dopamine and serotonin, hormones that make you feel happy. Without these endorphins you'll feel empty, in pain, desolate and perhaps suicidal. Abruptly stopping is not recommended in almost all circumstances. The exception is when SSRIs actually have the opposite effect for some individuals; they can make some people feel very depressed and suicidal. It takes 3 weeks to notice any effect of SSRIs and 3 months before the full effect is felt; so people taking them may not experience adverse effects for the first few weeks. If you are taking this drug and have experienced adverse effects it's very important you speak with your doctor and explain how you're feeling. You may have your medication swopped for another similar drug with less side effects or discontinued completely. I took Prozac for 4 months and hated how it made me feel empty and numb, so after consulting with my doctor I stopped taking it.
Anyway you may not be on SSRIs. If you are taking medicine to treat anxiety it could be beta blockers, which are much safer than other drugs used to treat anxiety. Stopping these won't cause major problems. Or you may be taking a more powerful antipsychotic drug, in which case it can be extremely dangerous to abruptly stop taking. Speak with your doctor.
Anyway I've taken the trouble to give you a comprehensive response. I do realise that I have made assumptions that may not have any relevance for you. I've described the most common scenarios I know of and have experience working with. I work in mental health and from what little I know about your situation it seems that although what you've taken poses no serious physical effect on your body (since you haven't choked on your vomit) your mental and emotional state is more of a concern. I worry that you suffer from an anxiety condition and have stopped taking your medication without consulting your doctor. Also the nature of your query and concern suggests that you are currently sufficiently anxious about your health to post on this forum. You need not worry about your physical health as the result of taking drugs but you must take action about your mental health and take good care of yourself. Please seek help. Speak with a trusted family member, adult friend or a clinician or counsellor. (If you choose to speak with your mum be cautious about broaching the subject of drug taking, you don't want to unnecessarily worry her!)
Finally, what were your reasons for taking drugs? Experimentation? Or to change how you feel and self medicate to alleviate anxious feelings?
If it's the former... don't be a wally. At least wait until you're older or at university to experiment safely with friends (I'm assuming you took the drugs alone...? And this is why you're concerned and posting on this site?). Take it from me, dabbling in drugs won't always make you an addict but drugs can lead to addiction and adversely affect your life. They're not worth it.
If it's the latter, then please seek support and don't be tempted to self medicate again. Aside from the real risk of accidental overdose you don't know what you're doing by messing with your mental state and since you have an anxiety disorder you could easily precipitate an anxiety attack or period of depression on the come down. Sometimes drugs are necessary to treat conditions. But often a good nights sleep, social contact, romance and exercise are all better for good mental health.
Take care and be careful. Please feel free to write to me if you have any questions. Apologies if I have made inaccurate assumptions that aren't relevant to your situation - feel free to correct me and clarify the circumstances of your drug use.

Thank you so much for your answer. My anxiety is not that big of a deal, Im just the typical socially anxious guy. I found out I had some alprazolam at home, so I decided to take it (the most ive taken was like 1.5mg at a time), and it made me feel really good and relaxed, and it elevated my mood. Later on, I decided to try tramadol since I had never tried opioids. Felt absolutely nothing. 10 days after, I found out I had some codeine/APAP pills at home, and I CWEd 4 of them (found out it wasnt necessary, because some poeple might say that 2000 of APAP isnt going to hurt your liver if u dont take it regularly, but I still did it just to stay safe) and felt absolutely nothing AGAIN, and then I started to worry if there was something wrong with me, cuz my friend tried 120mg codeine and got high as a kite, and then, in the following weekend, I just had 2 beers at a party. I might me completely ok, but as I said, I strugle with a little anxiety sometimes, and I have had an insane fear of death, that came back after the codeine experience. I started thinking that if I didnt feel anything with 120mg of codeine being opiate-naive, my liver was f*cked up and I was going to die

 

[justtakethat]

Bro you're fine opiates come from a plant and are non toxic. I was 14 when I was doing xanax and tramidol and shit man, nothing to worry about at all lots of my friends did. When I turned 15 I tried H, just remember to have willpower and you'll be fine. Not all drugs are bad with willpower and proper education. I'm 17 btw so don't even trip.

 

[justtakethat]

Hello
If you don't object to me recapping, to ensure I've fully understood your experience...
So you're 15 and over the past two months you have taken several xanax pills (1-2mg? What strength?), probably just one or two tramadol pills since 50mg is lowest strength tablet(?) and a number of codeine pills (strengths 15-30mg?)
Oh and some beers.
First off, if this is the extent of the drugs you've consumed regardless of how they were taken (i.e. Even if you had taken them all together at the same time) you most definitely will not have damaged your body in any way. You can relax and stop worrying.
However, what you neglected to mention in your post is how and when you took these drugs.
For physical effects on mind and body, the dosage and administration of the drugs is majorly important. For instance, if you are light weight and small, and have no tolerance, taking 100mg tramadol, 120mg codeine together washed down with several beers could be enough to make you black out. These drugs are opiates and they will depress your breathing and this effect will be extenuated by consuming alcohol. You possibly could suffocate as a result or more likely continue breathing but very shallowly and be mentally insensible to the extent that physical discomfort wouldn't rouse you. In this state there's a significant risk of vomiting as a side effect of opiates and alcohol, and being so far gone that you wouldn't be able to prevent yourself from choking on your vomit and suffocating. This is a common cause of death for the drug usage and situation I've described.
I intentionally left xanax out of the scenario above because:
1. Codeine, tramadol and alcohol are sufficient in themselves to cause death
2. Xanax is a strong benzodiazepines and would multiply the depressive effect of the opiates and alcohol - taking it would be a huge risk and it's likely that taking all these drugs together you'd be absolutely legless and unable to stand. There would be a good chance you'd have to have your stomach pumped
3. I imagine that of all the drugs you took, xanax was the most pleasant experience and hence you took the most of it... I suspect that this is the drug you're most likely to go back to? So I'll treat it separately.

Firstly where did you get all these drugs from? Friends or stolen from a family member. Do you have regular easy access to them?

Xanax is a member of the benzodiazepines (look up in wiki). It's similar to Valium and used to treat depression and anxiety primarily. It's mood altering: makes you feel relaxed, mellow and dozy. And your reaction times are much slower on it: it's easy to have accidents or cut yourself etc
Most importantly It's extremely addictive!!!
Addiction is characterised as mental, emotional addiction i.e. You 'feel' you can't get through the day without it
And physical addiction i.e. Your body becomes dependent on the drug for normal functioning
A daily dose of a low strength tablet for a month is sufficient to cause physical dependency in some people.
I can't emphasise enough that you should stay well away from all drugs, and especially xanax.
If you suffer from anxiety or depression you must seek medical help. You made an opaque reference to 'stopping taking drugs' in relation to your anxiety disorder. Am I correct in thinking you're referring to medicine prescribed for your condition?
What drugs are you talking about?
This is important for a number of reasons. You stopped taking but if you hadn't there possibly could be risk from mixing your medicine with the other drugs and alcohol you took. The interaction of these drugs could potentially be fatal especially if you medicine was a depressant similar to barbiturates or benzodiazepines causing unconsciousness and respiratory failure. Depending on what it is there could also be a risk of liver or kidney damage which if serious could also result in unconsciousness and death.
If your medicine was a SSRI i.e. An antidepressant like Prozac then combining with the other drugs could also have a similar effect to depressants. And if it's a SSRI then stopping taking it could have a severe psychological affect leading to depression and suicidal thoughts. In basic terms it changes your brain chemistry and hormonal balance. Suddenly stopping a high dosage will lead to an absence of endorphins such as dopamine and serotonin, hormones that make you feel happy. Without these endorphins you'll feel empty, in pain, desolate and perhaps suicidal. Abruptly stopping is not recommended in almost all circumstances. The exception is when SSRIs actually have the opposite effect for some individuals; they can make some people feel very depressed and suicidal. It takes 3 weeks to notice any effect of SSRIs and 3 months before the full effect is felt; so people taking them may not experience adverse effects for the first few weeks. If you are taking this drug and have experienced adverse effects it's very important you speak with your doctor and explain how you're feeling. You may have your medication swopped for another similar drug with less side effects or discontinued completely. I took Prozac for 4 months and hated how it made me feel empty and numb, so after consulting with my doctor I stopped taking it.
Anyway you may not be on SSRIs. If you are taking medicine to treat anxiety it could be beta blockers, which are much safer than other drugs used to treat anxiety. Stopping these won't cause major problems. Or you may be taking a more powerful antipsychotic drug, in which case it can be extremely dangerous to abruptly stop taking. Speak with your doctor.
Anyway I've taken the trouble to give you a comprehensive response. I do realise that I have made assumptions that may not have any relevance for you. I've described the most common scenarios I know of and have experience working with. I work in mental health and from what little I know about your situation it seems that although what you've taken poses no serious physical effect on your body (since you haven't choked on your vomit) your mental and emotional state is more of a concern. I worry that you suffer from an anxiety condition and have stopped taking your medication without consulting your doctor. Also the nature of your query and concern suggests that you are currently sufficiently anxious about your health to post on this forum. You need not worry about your physical health as the result of taking drugs but you must take action about your mental health and take good care of yourself. Please seek help. Speak with a trusted family member, adult friend or a clinician or counsellor. (If you choose to speak with your mum be cautious about broaching the subject of drug taking, you don't want to unnecessarily worry her!)
Finally, what were your reasons for taking drugs? Experimentation? Or to change how you feel and self medicate to alleviate anxious feelings?
If it's the former... don't be a wally. At least wait until you're older or at university to experiment safely with friends (I'm assuming you took the drugs alone...? And this is why you're concerned and posting on this site?). Take it from me, dabbling in drugs won't always make you an addict but drugs can lead to addiction and adversely affect your life. They're not worth it.
If it's the latter, then please seek support and don't be tempted to self medicate again. Aside from the real risk of accidental overdose you don't know what you're doing by messing with your mental state and since you have an anxiety disorder you could easily precipitate an anxiety attack or period of depression on the come down. Sometimes drugs are necessary to treat conditions. But often a good nights sleep, social contact, romance and exercise are all better for good mental health.
Take care and be careful. Please feel free to write to me if you have any questions. Apologies if I have made inaccurate assumptions that aren't relevant to your situation - feel free to correct me and clarify the circumstances of your drug use.

Damn I get the feeling you're trying to scare the kids away from drugs from what I read. Benzos are near impossible to OD off of by just themselves. DO NOT speak with a parent or counselor or whatever unless you want them to be pissed at you, unless you're talking to another properly educated person you will get very biased 'help'. Now if you were to be actually doing possible damage then I'd say sure ask a doctor but the stuff you're doing is nothing to worry about when you're a little kid pretty much. Most people have this evil view on opiates and such and have instant stigma from the word heroin. So I'd just keep this to yourself mate, keep on educating yourself as well.

 

[JahSEEuS]

Benzos can kill you when you aren't even taking them. ESPECIALLY when you aren't even taking them. This occurs in the form of seizures from w/d.

Telling him to keep this to himself is also laughable.

It can be difficult talking to parents about this stuff, and none of us know the relationship you have with yours. I have friend who were sent away to "rehab" (see: mexican villa) for smoking weed and talking back. I have friends who have taken MDMA with their parents at young ages.

If you have open, honest, communication with your parents I would sit down and let them know what's happening. How you feel about it, and what can be done. As long as they are open minded they can help you through these times.

The advice above from justtakethat seems somewhat immature and inaccurate.

 

[justtakethat]

Benzos can kill you when you aren't even taking them. ESPECIALLY when you aren't even taking them. This occurs in the form of seizures from w/d.

Telling him to keep this to himself is also laughable.

It can be difficult talking to parents about this stuff, and none of us know the relationship you have with yours. I have friend who were sent away to "rehab" (see: mexican villa) for smoking weed and talking back. I have friends who have taken MDMA with their parents at young ages.

If you have open, honest, communication with your parents I would sit down and let them know what's happening. How you feel about it, and what can be done. As long as they are open minded they can help you through these times.

The advice above from justtakethat seems somewhat immature and inaccurate.

Yea have a sit down and tell your parents you do opiates and benzos, that'll go over well. Let's think of the big picture and what would actually happen we're not trying to fuck this kid over, that's what it seems almost like by telling him to go tell his parents. I also don't know his parents but most would be pissed as fuck over that.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

justtakethat it doesn't matter if a drug comes from a plant or a chemical plant the safety profile of a drug is completely unrelated to where it comes from.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Bro you're fine opiates come from a plant and are non toxic. I was 14 when I was doing xanax and tramidol and shit man, nothing to worry about at all lots of my friends did. When I turned 15 I tried H, just remember to have willpower and you'll be fine. Not all drugs are bad with willpower and proper education. I'm 17 btw so don't even trip.

Man, I'm sorry, but you're all over the place in terms of your beliefs and philosophy. In some threads you're essentially telling people to chill out about safety when they're doing potentially dangerous shit and in other threads you're essentially insulting people for being addicted to/dependent upon drugs. To carify, this is not a "harmless" situation. What I and I believe everyone else is trying to imply, is that we're by no means in the stratosphere of intoxication with this sort of thing. To be as concise as possible, you are walking a very fine line by combining all of these substances.

I stated that I believe OP is almost certainly okay, but I don't mean to downplay the potential severity of the situation. People can and do die from these combinations all the time.

The comment that "a drug is safe and healthy because it comes from a plant" is just ludicrous. Morphine comes from a plant. Cocaine comes from a plant. Alcohol comes from plants. I would actually say that most drugs of abuse are "plants" in one form or another.

 

[juansalar]

***Pleased and relieved to see all the intelligent responses to 'Justtakethat's silly post***


Justtakethat
You are quite ignorant on this topic of the toxicity of benzos and the risk of overdose.
There's truth in the aphorism, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing..."
I am concerned that you present your opinion as fact, and are unthinkingly dismissive of other points of view.
The reality is your opinion couldn't be any further from the truth (see * below). Benzos are dangerous drugs cited as responsible for the second greatest number of deaths from overdose.
The danger presented by publicising your ill-formed opinion is especially grave when the audience includes younger less experienced members who look to Bluelight for responsible and accurate advice.
What do you base your opinion on...?
*There's a sizeable evidence base compiled by independent international and national health organisations demonstrating the risk posed by Benzos which is almost universally supported.

And what's with your condescending tone and intellectual superiority?
Courtesy involves not just politeness but a willingness to be open to other views. You come across as naive and narrow minded in your dismissal of the veracity of other views. Your dismissive attitude doesn't do justice to the rich experience and wide diversity of contributors to this forum.

You're not alone in forwarding this argument, the myth that it's 'impossible or very hard to overdose on benzos alone' is perpetuated by certain websites and individuals on web-forums . The current opiate epidemic and deaths from opiate overdose are being used to argue for the relative safety of benzos.

Who stands to benefit from this PR exercise? Be aware that there is an unlikely convergence of interests between 'libertarians' and big business when it comes to the availability of mind altering drugs.

The case for benzo's relative safety rests on the crucial contention that overdose on benzos is less likely when the drug is taken on its own. This is based on the observation that the patient who takes too high a dose of benzos is likely to fall unconscious before they're able to consume a fatal dose.
The argument is flawed in two major ways:
1. in real life, where there is a risk of overdose benzos are not taken on their own: recreational drug users mix them with alcohol or other depressant to increase the effect and those deliberately planning self-harm also combine the drug with alcohol or other depressants. Put simply, making the case for decreased risk of overdose on benzos when taken alone is largely an irrelevance.

2.Similarly, the comparative safety of benzos in relation to the risk of overdose on opiates is also an irrelevance. It is dangerously misleading to focus on the relative differences in risk between the two drugs. For a start, one is an illegal unregulated narcotic often cut with dangerous adulterants such as fentanyl.
Moreover, although opiates are the leading cause of accidental deaths in the US, being responsible for 70% of all overdose deaths, benzos take second place causing the remaining 30% of death from overdose.

Clearly the comparative analysis is not helpful in demonstrating the risk of death from benzos overdose. More illuminating is data showing how Benzo overdose deaths have quadrupled in the US between 1999 and 2010. The increase in the number of deaths is directly correlated to the increase in the number of prescriptions for Benzos. In light of this data, I hope you'll agree that it is irresponsible and foolish to make the case for the safety of benzos based on the claim “Benzos are near impossible to OD off of by just themselves.”

There appears to be a concerted push to get the message out that 'benzos' aren't such a dangerous drug. In part this involves erroneously using the large increase in opiate overdose fatalities to argue that the risk of benzo overdose is slight. It involves 'cherry picking' the available data sets to select only the evidence that supports the desired message.

This is a message that runs counter to the guidance and policy promoted by governments of Western nations over the past decade, which is to reduce the over medicalisation of health and reduce the population's reliance on expensive, addictive and potentially harmful anti-depressants. There's a lot at stake for the pharmaceutical industry as the market for the top selling benzo, Xanax, alone is worth billions.
Going back to the question of who stands to gain advantage from promoting the claim that benzos are relatively safe, it's plain that the pharmaceutical industry stands to gain or lose a lot depending on the fortune of their benzo products. Rudimentary research would reveal how financial support for many of the individuals and websites promoting the 'benzo safety myth' originates with the pharmaceutical industry. Be careful not to do the work of these enormous multinational corporations.

Promoting this myth about Benzos is very dangerous and deeply irresponsible and misleading.
(I believe that ) If we witness these myths being circulated and pushed on this forum the posters involved should be challenged and if necessary sanctions or suspensions should be imposed on accounts of repeat offenders. We must not allow this dangerous nonsense to influence the opinions of inexperienced users who come to this site for impartial advice and support in the belief that although the views expressed are the individual opinions of posters, the forum embodies impartiality, support for the internationally recognised evidence base and the site is not funded or aligned with any third party vested interests.
[Tongue in cheek: I think your post fell foul of all of these points, with the exception that we do not yet know whether you've received money or not ;-)]


Who is the target for the jibe about 'keep on educating yourself'...? It's not clear whether your posts starts by addressing my comment but then later switches to referring to the original poster. If necessary, I'm happy to make reference to my experience and qualifications. However, this is a forum for the layman and I don't want to be seen as guilty of hubris or 'pulling rank'. Suffice to say that I know my stuff very well, and I recognise that most addiction / drug issues aren't black and white.

However, when tackling certain issues of drug misuse, especially when young inexperienced potential users are concerned, all potential risks need to be highlighted properly. This is the responsible and sensible thing to do. It has nothing to do with scaremongering.

 

[juansalar]

Hello,
(I couldn't agree more about the plant stuff... ;-))

Please see my post below on this string of comments; I'm interested to hear your opinion as a moderator and the opinions of members regarding the minimisation of the harms of prescribed medicine such as benzos...

It is not improbable that defence of these extremely profitable pharmaceuticals promotes vested interests. Repeated and frequent postings on this issue should ring alarm bells.

I'm NOT suggesting that this is currently happening or posts on this issue are organised.

But it's not unreasonable to think that regular posts minimising harm involves a deliberate ploy and PR/marketing strategy by the pharmaceutical industry to shore up the demand for their drugs. I think there's indications that this is happening elsewhere in the net. I will attempt to collate evidence demonstrating the link between the pharma industry and ostensibly 'independent' retail analysts and individuals who make the case for benzos being comparatively safe and argue against any restrictions on their availability.

Given the extent of the opiate epidemic and its high profile, Pharma industry fears a public and regulatory backlash against addictive medicines. The situation looks similar to that of the tobacco industry fighting against greater restrictions on smoking and tobacco.

The tobacco industry covertly funded libertarian groups, columnists on national papers and trade associations of newsagents and small shops on the condition they publicly opposed the introduction of plain-packaging and the removal of tobacco for sale from plain sight as being bad for business etc,
I suspect that the Pharma industry is likely quietly funding advocates for fewer restrictions on the sale and prescription of anti-depressants.
The industry has mostly already 'gotten to' our doctors through trade reps and kick-backs.
I wonder whether now they are attempting to influence the public debate and disingenuously work to disparage claims that benzos are highly addictive and very risky.
Hence my comment about being vigilant to posters making this case on the forum.

I'm new to this site - I have read the inductory guidance and FAQs - so I'm not familiar with the sanctions placed on members you are found to routinely promote the interests of the Pharma industry.
Can you advise as to what is in place to protect this independent space from concerted lobbying?
Are there specific measures of proof when providing evidence of any undeclared vested interests and lobbying?
(I hope I don't come across as a tin foil hat wearing paranoid conspiracist! ;-)

 

[justtakethat]

I'll clarify, it comes from a plant and is non toxic to the body in the long run. Yes you can do to much, but you can do too much or anything as well. Your body produces endogenous opiates called endorphins and has opiate receptors just like we have cannabinoid receptors. All he's taken is some non toxic plant substances and the benzos are very hard to OD off of, the LD50 was like 2000 or some high number. Anyways you won't really need more than 2mgs or 3. He has nothing to worry about and talking to his parents will only put stress that they don't need on themselves. Seems like you like to pick out parts of my post to talk shit instead of actually give what I say some thought.

 

[juansalar]

?!?
The human body is 1% phosphorus, yet phosphate is so incredibly toxic to the body that it can be weaponised and used to produce nerve gas. To argue that because the body contains a certain element ergo the element is not toxic to the body in the long run is a fallacious argument.
Ditto 'natural' / 'plant based' substances... they aren't inherently non-toxic. There are myriad strange and toxic substances occurring 'naturally' in environments with nothing that is remotely artificial. Cholera is naturally occurring...
It's a modern fallacy to equate 'natural' with 'non-toxic'. Here's an article on the issue: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kavins...s-in-food-have-caused-real-harm/#1cb5cd111159
The obvious authorities for your theory include the 'sciencey bits in shampoo commercials' and information found on the back of chia seed packet about the '100% natural caveman paleo detox diet'... ;-))) sorry! It is fun to engage with your arguments...

No personal offence is intended,... but (having just realised you're only 17) I think you ought to spend more time listening and less time proclaiming foolish ideas.
You need to engage with criticisms that your logic is skewed and your ideas are half baked.
I don't think anyone is deliberately setting out to nitpick. And I'm not offended by your rejection of my arguments at all.
Rather it's your arrogance and condescension that riles me, especially when you blatantly know little about a subject. Despite the fact you have little or no relevant experience, you show contempt for others' views that are based on study, experience and acquired knowledge. It's a very disrespectful and disdainful way of treating people,... and it's especially rude and insulting to act this way when you are engaged in debate with strangers.
You're dismissive, in an off-hand manner, of time-tested, universally accepted beliefs, yet you don't have the decency to go to the trouble of giving due consideration to the weight of experience. It id narcissistic of you to dismiss an accepted theory as inaccurate without considering the facts. And, despite limited personal experience and in the face of many well-regarded and evidenced arguments to the contrary, you have the temerity to declare your own inchoate ideas to be correct.
You generalise and pigeon-hole the views of others: yesterday you lumped all parents and counsellors together and dismissed them as having uneducated opinions. Rather than embrace challenge you are scornful and dismissive of any criticism.
I think that not only do you have a lot to learn and experience, you also have a hell of a lot of growing up to do including a lot of emotional development. You can't continue being so disdainful of others and convinced of your own superiority. You're dangerously close to exhibiting exemplary characteristics of someone with a narcissistic borderline personality disorder.

 

[justtakethat]

?!?
The human body is 1% phosphorus, yet phosphate is so incredibly toxic to the body that it can be weaponised and used to produce nerve gas. To argue that because the body contains a certain element ergo the element is not toxic to the body in the long run is a fallacious argument.
Ditto 'natural' / 'plant based' substances... they aren't inherently non-toxic. There are myriad strange and toxic substances occurring 'naturally' in environments with nothing that is remotely artificial. Cholera is naturally occurring...
It's a modern fallacy to equate 'natural' with 'non-toxic'. Here's an article on the issue: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kavins...s-in-food-have-caused-real-harm/#1cb5cd111159
The obvious authorities for your theory include the 'sciencey bits in shampoo commercials' and information found on the back of chia seed packet about the '100% natural caveman paleo detox diet'... ;-))) sorry! It is fun to engage with your arguments...

No personal offence is intended,... but (having just realised you're only 17) I think you ought to spend more time listening and less time proclaiming foolish ideas.
You need to engage with criticisms that your logic is skewed and your ideas are half baked.
I don't think anyone is deliberately setting out to nitpick. And I'm not offended by your rejection of my arguments at all.
Rather it's your arrogance and condescension that riles me, especially when you blatantly know little about a subject. Despite the fact you have little or no relevant experience, you show contempt for others' views that are based on study, experience and acquired knowledge. It's a very disrespectful and disdainful way of treating people,... and it's especially rude and insulting to act this way when you are engaged in debate with strangers.
You're dismissive, in an off-hand manner, of time-tested, universally accepted beliefs, yet you don't have the decency to go to the trouble of giving due consideration to the weight of experience. It id narcissistic of you to dismiss an accepted theory as inaccurate without considering the facts. And, despite limited personal experience and in the face of many well-regarded and evidenced arguments to the contrary, you have the temerity to declare your own inchoate ideas to be correct.
You generalise and pigeon-hole the views of others: yesterday you lumped all parents and counsellors together and dismissed them as having uneducated opinions. Rather than embrace challenge you are scornful and dismissive of any criticism.
I think that not only do you have a lot to learn and experience, you also have a hell of a lot of growing up to do including a lot of emotional development. You can't continue being so disdainful of others and convinced of your own superiority. You're dangerously close to exhibiting exemplary characteristics of someone with a narcissistic borderline personality disorder.

I know you don't like me and all but I don't think you need a whole wall of text to express that each time you make a post mate. OP, you're fine and have absolutely nothing to worry about, unless you start taking it daily.

 

[Lobsterbutch]

Hey, everyone's already said it, but it feels like there is an air of "uncertainty" in regards to the answers you've gotten. What you've done has in no way messed up your body, and you will be ok. The use you describes is very small and what most people would consider "experimenting". again, you're fine.

Dont let some of what you heard scare you, you aren't in danger of liver damage or aspirating on your own puke, not with what you've explained to us. Your use is safe as far as what you've said.

Some people did make good points, and I think the most important one is to keep in mind the nature of drugs and people. You seem like you already have the concept down considering how worried you were about the consequences of your very brief drug use, but all drugs are owed a deep level of respect. They can make or break you......They're tools, and can help you when you need it, but if you loose the respect, they'll fuck your mind and most parts of your life.
Be careful, right now you're in no danger, but its easy to loose the respect with time. I speak from experience, I used small and "rational" amounts of many different drugs over a very long period of time, never going "crazy" with them or using them "completely irresponsibly". It took a long time, but eventually I got so comfortable using drugs I became overly confident and over-estimated my will power. I figured that I had the idea of doing drugs down to a science and I would be able to handle doing what I wanted. I lost my respect for the drugs, and I ended up being eyes deep in the cycle of addiction. It took a really long time, about 12 years, I was your age when I started drinking socially at parties, and last year I was stuck in a psyc ward because of withdrawal from R.C's and opioids.

Don't get me wrong, most of my friends turned out fine and they started just like me, they have good lives and still drink socially, they smoked pot every day with me, and sometimes popped pills. They were able to put it away when they needed to. I couldn't. The point is it requires respect.

You'll be absolutely fine as long as you maintain that respect, never overestimate your will power, and ALWAYS measure the costs and benefits of something before you do it.

 

[justtakethat]

Hey, everyone's already said it, but it feels like there is an air of "uncertainty" in regards to the answers you've gotten. What you've done has in no way messed up your body, and you will be ok. The use you describes is very small and what most people would consider "experimenting". again, you're fine.

Dont let some of what you heard scare you, you aren't in danger of liver damage or aspirating on your own puke, not with what you've explained to us. Your use is safe as far as what you've said.

Some people did make good points, and I think the most important one is to keep in mind the nature of drugs and people. You seem like you already have the concept down considering how worried you were about the consequences of your very brief drug use, but all drugs are owed a deep level of respect. They can make or break you......They're tools, and can help you when you need it, but if you loose the respect, they'll fuck your mind and most parts of your life.
Be careful, right now you're in no danger, but its easy to loose the respect with time. I speak from experience, I used small and "rational" amounts of many different drugs over a very long period of time, never going "crazy" with them or using them "completely irresponsibly". It took a long time, but eventually I got so comfortable using drugs I became overly confident and over-estimated my will power. I figured that I had the idea of doing drugs down to a science and I would be able to handle doing what I wanted. I lost my respect for the drugs, and I ended up being eyes deep in the cycle of addiction. It took a really long time, about 12 years, I was your age when I started drinking socially at parties, and last year I was stuck in a psyc ward because of withdrawal from R.C's and opioids.

Don't get me wrong, most of my friends turned out fine and they started just like me, they have good lives and still drink socially, they smoked pot every day with me, and sometimes popped pills. They were able to put it away when they needed to. I couldn't. The point is it requires respect.

You'll be absolutely fine as long as you maintain that respect, never overestimate your will power, and ALWAYS measure the costs and benefits of something before you do it.

Finally advice to help the dude, seems like a lot of the other advice and stuff telling him to make his parents aware of his drug use was so let to fuck him over or something. Everyone experiments, but you don't go and tell your parents all about it.

 

[juansalar]

No,... again you're missing the point...
'Like' has nothing to do with it...
You're posting misleading, absolute falsehoods that pose a dangerous risk for inexperienced members looking for the facts and guidance. You've been told by a number of people that you're completely wrong, but you refuse to acknowledge the risk you post poses and you are dismissive of all views contrary to your own.
You're only 17 and have little experience or real knowledge. This is not held against you. But it's very arrogant and conceited of you to be so dismissive and superior.
Personally, I don't suffer fools gladly or waste time on arrogant idiots. I'm twice your age and have worked in public health and drug strategy for almost your entire life span. But it's necessary to challenge you and pick you up on your falsehoods by offering the facts in their place. 'Like' doesn't come into it, but I'm surprised and annoyed that you are so stubborn and childish as to refuse to accept the truth and acknowledge the danger your crap about 'natural drugs' and overdose etc risks.

Either shut up and admit you're wrong and your posts are arrogant and misleading. Or - instead of continuing to make unsubstantiated and fantastical claims - stand up for yourself and your arguments, provide an explanation for why you're so dismissive of other opinions, and face head on my challenge by presenting your arguments robustly, backed up by evidence and with reference to authorities.

I strongly suspect that making an attempt at applying a formal methodology to defend your opinion is way beyond your skills and comprehension. Prove me wrong... put up or shut up.

Why should anyone accept your insulting conceited assertion that you're 'right' and everyone else needs to go back to school just because you say so?
Who do you think you're talking to?
Grow up and show respect for others by adhering to the guidelines and engage in proper debate. If you're unable to evidence and source your argument, you should retract your assertion and politely shut up.

 

[justtakethat]

No,... again you're missing the point...
'Like' has nothing to do with it...
You're posting misleading, absolute falsehoods that pose a dangerous risk for inexperienced members looking for the facts and guidance. You've been told by a number of people that you're completely wrong, but you refuse to acknowledge the risk you post poses and you are dismissive of all views contrary to your own.
You're only 17 and have little experience or real knowledge. This is not held against you. But it's very arrogant and conceited of you to be so dismissive and superior.
Personally, I don't suffer fools gladly or waste time on arrogant idiots. I'm twice your age and have worked in public health and drug strategy for almost your entire life span. But it's necessary to challenge you and pick you up on your falsehoods by offering the facts in their place. 'Like' doesn't come into it, but I'm surprised and annoyed that you are so stubborn and childish as to refuse to accept the truth and acknowledge the danger your crap about 'natural drugs' and overdose etc risks.

Either shut up and admit you're wrong and your posts are arrogant and misleading. Or - instead of continuing to make unsubstantiated and fantastical claims - stand up for yourself and your arguments, provide an explanation for why you're so dismissive of other opinions, and face head on my challenge by presenting your arguments robustly, backed up by evidence and with reference to authorities.

I strongly suspect that making an attempt at applying a formal methodology to defend your opinion is way beyond your skills and comprehension. Prove me wrong... put up or shut up.

Why should anyone accept your insulting conceited assertion that you're 'right' and everyone else needs to go back to school just because you say so?
Who do you think you're talking to?
Grow up and show respect for others by adhering to the guidelines and engage in proper debate. If you're unable to evidence and source your argument, you should retract your assertion and politely shut up.

I don't need to 'prove' myself to anyone, I find it interesting that you just say I'm wrong get don't offer any examples of what is wrong or what you disagree with. I also don't know where you live but for someone twice my age, "If you're unable to evidence or source your argument" doesn't even sound grammatically correct. Plus you don't mention what argument I said that you want sources and evidence for. You're just displaying that you're upset and getting a feel of being above me due to my age. I don't get why you're getting all superuor everyone ages it's not like it makes you any more of a person that you happen to be born before I was. You're literally getting annoyed and trying to start arguments with a kid in the internet. If you disagree with my send me some messages and I can tell you exactly how I feel on the situation and where I stand. This post just shows you're getting pissed and want to tell me to fuck off as nice and professional as possible, we all see through the bullshit. I'm not going to take up this young man's thread any more, if you have a problem with me or my views, send me a personal message.