Am I guilty of rape by coercion?

[Amiguilty]

This story happened a long time ago, but all the talk around rape and consent has gotten me thinking. When I was in high school I first was interested in a girl in a neighboring town, and at first the attraction was not goal oriented premeditated or anything. I had met her through a friend and thought she was cute and that was it. We met again one day at a local concert and hung out and talked a little. At the end of the night she needed a ride home, so I gave her one and she ended up kissing me and giving me her number after I had dropped her off. We started talking on the phone and I asked her out so we started dating. The very first day we hung out at my house turned into a make-up session that ended in her saying "we should fuck sometime"(no lie verbatum). Which was completely unexpected by me but to my raging teenage hormones I totally didn't run (though in hindsight maybe I should have). That was the end of that night though no sex or more making out, I just brought her home and continued on. From then on though it was always making out, she would put her hands in my pants, we would be sexual but not have intercourse. This slowly progressed to me going down on her and she would like start with a hand job or a blow job but it would always be like half assed in the sense that there was no follow through to a release for me. We even went as far as (this is hard to describe) looking like we were having sex but the penis wasn't inserted it was parallel to the vagina not perpendicular. All of this contact up until this next point was 100 percent consensual and mostly initiated by her. This next instance we were at my house and doing these things we normally did and after going down on her which she was completely satisfied we continued to make out still completely naked, and I started to get frustrated, through all these instances I had not once ejaculated, so I was being pesty about it, (which it wasn't even really directed at full on sex but like a blow job or hand job or anything really to completion) which the first couple times of questioning she was hesitant and saying I don't know, until finally she said let's do it. Which that lasted two seconds (haha no that's not why) when we thought we heard my mom come home and jumped up and got dressed quick fast in a hurry. That's where it ended. Shortly after this happened I found out she had given a friend down the street a blow job so I broke up with her. But it wasn't until after I broke up with her the accusation of rape happened, not officially but to my friends. I am not one to ever have wanted to violate someone or cause them pain, but with all the talks of late, is this one of those fine lines of coercion, am I guilty of being rapey?

 

[Moreaux]

Maybe I'm too old to answer this as times have changed, but it doesn't seem taper or even like coercion was used. You two had been fairly intimate up to and including that night. She could have said no. It seems a little selfish that she wasn't concerned about you finishing in any of these encounters and I suspect you felt that way as well. She could have said no to you. She could have also given you a reason why your needs weren't being met, but she did neither of those things. The fact that she was seeing someone else without your knowledge makes the "rape" statements a little suspect and makes me wonder if she's using rape as a means to get out of telling her other partner that there was some overlaps in relationships.

As I wasn't there and all I have to go on is what you say, if what you said is all that happened then she is the exact type of female that makes it difficult for legitimate sexual abuse survivors and what she is doing is unacceptable and quite illegal. I am sorry you are going through this experience as its not fair. Most women are not like this, and most women do not condone what she is doing.

My best friend in middle school accused the guy she crushed on for years of rape. Police were involved, his name was eventually cleared but he and his family had to move. He was continuously brutalized and it wasn't safe for him. My friend accused him of rape after he told her he wasn't interested in having sex with her, she had guilted her into going on a date. She later confided in me what had really happened and I had to go to the police which was horrible (we were all 13). Sometimes women lie about rape to save face, which kind of sounds like what's going on in your situation.

How did you hear that she was saying this about you? What was your response when you heard it? Have you had any further contact with her?

Regarding further contact with her, do not get into a situation where you two are alone - she is not safe to be around in a one on one situation. I would also discreetly warn any potential future victims. Her lying about rape can have a devestating affect on people's lives. Some go to prison and end up on the sexual registry list which is unfortunate for those that are innocent.

 

[amiguilty]

This was about 15 years ago. So the situation has passed thankfully. I found out from an acquaintance at school, who was in a local band I was pals with at the time, who approached me about it. She had literally called all of the members in the band and told them. It was the most awkward humiliating experiences I've ever had. The only other person I told was my therapist at the time. I told my friend the whole story after he confronted me about it, but we weren't close friends so even after I told him he was still like wary of me, and didn't know what to think. Things eventually blew over. I just brought this up after reading a lot of articles on rape culture these days. One of which was on consent, no means no yes means yes, and seduction vs coercion. Which mentioned pestering sometimes could be coercion, which got me thinking was I guilty of this or is this concept completely off base. I was molested when I was between the ages of 3 and 5 so I'm completely against any forced or coerced sexual situations but after reading those articles I couldn't help but thinking was I guilty of something I was against. I have never been in a situation since this that would even come close to this since then. Sadly that story is also the story of how I lost my virginity.

 

[Nixiam]

Doesn't sound too rapey to me.

Actually, I don't even see a hint of immorality on your part.
___

I'd cut off contact with her. Like Moreaux said, I only have what you say to go on. She sounds like the type of woman with low self esteem, feels like a whore because she runs around and wishes she didn't, then claims rape because people would be more in support of her and less likely to be outwardly ugly (to her) or consider her despicable.

Like she's trying to move the attention somewhere else.

There are guys like that too.

Hopefully you two aren't in touch.

I can see how this is embarrassing. I was accused by my family of molesting my 5 year old sister. That left me pretty hurt, and emotionally ruined.

Obviously I would never do anything close to that. We got it straightened out.
___

If I were you, I wouldn't be worrying about anything court wise coming from this.

Pestering? Dude, yes is yes. She could have said no and left, but she didn't. You two were already sexual, engaging in outercourse and the like.

'A defense asserted in a criminal prosecution that a person who committed a crime did not do so of his or her own free will, but only because the individual was compelled by another through the use of physical force or threat of immediate serious bodily injury or death.'

Thanks for sharing. Some things just aren't forseeable.

 

[Moreaux]

This was about 15 years ago. So the situation has passed thankfully. I found out from an acquaintance at school, who was in a local band I was pals with at the time, who approached me about it. She had literally called all of the members in the band and told them. It was the most awkward humiliating experiences I've ever had. The only other person I told was my therapist at the time. I told my friend the whole story after he confronted me about it, but we weren't close friends so even after I told him he was still like wary of me, and didn't know what to think. Things eventually blew over. I just brought this up after reading a lot of articles on rape culture these days. One of which was on consent, no means no yes means yes, and seduction vs coercion. Which mentioned pestering sometimes could be coercion, which got me thinking was I guilty of this or is this concept completely off base. I was molested when I was between the ages of 3 and 5 so I'm completely against any forced or coerced sexual situations but after reading those articles I couldn't help but thinking was I guilty of something I was against. I have never been in a situation since this that would even come close to this since then. Sadly that story is also the story of how I lost my virginity.

What did your therapist say? I ask because it was fifteen years ago, and if you had been inappropriate I'm certain they would have told you. As you are posting and thinking about this now, it kind of makes me feel like you may be being hard on yourself. In the story she told the band were there any lies that you heard or any embellishments? You said you explained yourself to the one acquaintance but he didn't really seem to buy it, which makes me think your story was significantly different than hers, which raises a red flag.

As I'm older and a little out of touch I read through current discussions regarding what constitutes coercion and some of them are just ridiculous. Do you feel guilty because she initially declined and you asked a second time or something along those lines?

Coercion to me is threatening force or a negative consequence to get her to say yes, or asking repeatedly when she keeps saying no and is obviously uncomfortable and she just gives in. Considering your level of intimacy prior, it would seem strange if you didn't ask again after she initially said no, especially 15 years ago where it was kind of expected for the girl to give the obligatory no so she doesn't seem like a slut. Back when I was in school as a young girl it ws expected that you say no at first (unless you had been dating and had already had sex with that person before).

Doesn't sound too rapey to me.

Actually, I don't even see a hint of immorality on your part.
___

I'd cut off contact with her. Like Moreaux said, I only have what you say to go on. She sounds like the type of woman with low self esteem, feels like a whore because she runs around and wishes she didn't, then claims rape because people would be more in support of her and less likely to be outwardly ugly (to her) or consider her despicable.

Like she's trying to move the attention somewhere else.

There are guys like that too.

Hopefully you two aren't in touch.

I can see how this is embarrassing. I was accused by my family of molesting my 5 year old sister. That left me pretty hurt, and emotionally ruined.

Obviously I would never do anything close to that. We got it straightened out.
___

If I were you, I wouldn't be worrying about anything court wise coming from this.

Pestering? Dude, yes is yes. She could have said no and left, but she didn't. You two were already sexual, engaging in outercourse and the like.

'A defense asserted in a criminal prosecution that a person who committed a crime did not do so of his or her own free will, but only because the individual was compelled by another through the use of physical force or threat of immediate serious bodily injury or death.'

Thanks for sharing. Some things just aren't forseeable.

Definately agree. Also, the situation with your sister - how horrible. That must have been so painful especially at a young age. I do hope everything got straightened out. I could not imagine.

 

[Nixiam]

^Yes, thank you. It was rather difficult, as my family was rapidly and radically divided with law threats.

Not something I bring up all the time. Not even to my psychologist.

 

[d3athadone]

seems like u fucked her and found out she isnt a classy girl so left her but that broke her heart and now u getting the rape case. Pretty normal really. How old are you? U seem pretty impressed that she said u should fuck sometime. dont worry about it bro. your not hte only one with a fucked up sexual past.

 

[amiguilty]

I'm 32 now married with 2 children. I was 17 at the time. I broke contact with her and haven't seen her since. To be completely honest I lied to my therapist and just told him about the accusation but lied and told him nothing happened. He asked her name so I told him and he got a little nervous because he knew the name. Her mother happened to be ano infamous lawyer in the area known for doing crazy things in court like bringing dead pigs into a hearing. But I was freaked out and just wanted to distance myself from the situation so I lied. Which my therapist said it becomes a he said she said but be prepared as the family is unpredictable.

To the other poster on her saying we should fuck sometime I was impressed at the time because I was never one that was good with the ladies and to this day have never had a girl be so forward out of the blue.

To the band member that confronted me about it, I never got specifics on her story other than she called him and said I had raped her. I said I didn't but he was like wtf and like that he knew me but didn't really know me as we weren't close friends, and didn't know what to make of the situation. It was completely awkward. The problem eventually blew over and went away.

 

[bomber]

I don't see where you see a rapy behavior in your self, realy.

 

[Moreaux]

After having the conversation here do you still feel like your behaviour was rapey?

ETA: Unless you detail everything, you may not find you answer, or you may already have. From what you have said it doesn't sound like something you should concern yourself with any longer. You were young, it was your first time, I don't think the expectation of perfection is reasonable...I can understand asking again after the initial no as all prior behaviour indicate this was something she was interested in participating with you.

 

[herbavore]

There is nothing at all in what you said that even approaches mental coercion let alone rape. This woman either has no idea of the damage such a claim can make or she is completely without morals. I hope that you can put your mind at ease and move on. It is my belief that the same way we need to raise our sons to understand that coercion and certainly rape are morally wrong, we need to also raise daughters who understand how morally wrong it is to lie about those things. In both cases it can damage or even ruin a life.

 

[d3athadone]

I'm 32 now married with 2 children. I was 17 at the time. I broke contact with her and haven't seen her since. To be completely honest I lied to my therapist and just told him about the accusation but lied and told him nothing happened. He asked her name so I told him and he got a little nervous because he knew the name. Her mother happened to be ano infamous lawyer in the area known for doing crazy things in court like bringing dead pigs into a hearing. But I was freaked out and just wanted to distance myself from the situation so I lied. Which my therapist said it becomes a he said she said but be prepared as the family is unpredictable.

Bro one time I had a gang of redneck girls chasing after me and my cusin spitting on us yelling you fucking dirt through a field. Pretty much because we were city kids. Actually maybe because my cusin was an asshole to them too. I bet that has a big part to do with it. We were just kids and they were kids too. Unless the mom was there. I can't remember if the mom was there. I think she was. Was Jerry Springer for sure. The fact that her mother is this outlandish lawyer should give you some idea about what her family is like and who you are dealing with. So the girl felt she had power over you. You broke her heart man. You don't seem to get it. You broke up with her cuz she gave some guy a blowjob? Think about how stupid that is. You were 17. All you wanted to do was fuck. What did you think you were getting here? Married? The fact is you were just a kid too. So you made a hasty decision because you didn't see that you really wanted to fuck. I mean. Myself. I probably woulda done some stupid shit liek this too. Then again, I may just fuck her brains out and not give two shits about whois dick she sucked a week before. When I was 11 I did everything but fuck these 2 16 year old girls with my two friends who were both 16 too. The girls were pretty drunk. ACtually they were completely fucking shitfaced. That could be construed as a rape for one of them at least. Yeah I would say my friend raped her. She was too drunk to fuck by the time they did fuck, but they were making out before she got that drunk so eh?? So there you go don't trip lol. When she found out I was 11 the next day she freaked out. All I did was finger her a little and make out with her. My boy asked me if I wanted to fuck her and I said no. Thank god lol. She liked me more than she liked him. They both liked me more lol. THey thought I was older cuz I was kinda tall and cool. I remember my boys had to pull them off me cuz they were having too much fun with me haha. fucking assholes. I'm still friends with them today. They are different people now. Good people. I know where my friends even learned this behaviour. THey were part of a big case that happened here in TOronto where this guy was drugging all these kids and molesting them. He took them to wonderland and shit like that. Really groomed them. So its no wonder my friends were sexually fucked. THose girls ended up becoming prostitutes. I hung out with them in their brothel once when I was like 18. Was a crazy experience. They described their pimp to me and everything cuz I asked so many questions. I ended up being really close with those girls. We all did. We all became friends. I loved them. Thought they were the shit. The protected me. I protected them. Thinking back I mostly loved how pretty they were. I was 11 ffs. I shouldn't even have had that much freedom its crazy... My dad had no really useful boundaries. Anyway I'm rambling. I just wanted to share a bit about my life cuz u shared about yours. SHow you your not alone in having to think about shit like this.

And you should probably stop lying to your therapist. Your therapist hears way worse than what your telling me. The question is. Are you telling us everything then?