Alzheimers MDMA/LSD research?

[RhythmSpring]

Has anyone heard of such a thing?

Has there ever been anyone who's experimented with the effects of MDMA, LSD, Psilocybin or anything like that on Alzheimer's patients?

If so, what has come of it? (I haven't seen anything)

If not, what do you think might possibly come of it? (conjecture)

 

[The Monkey Mantra]

Go to google scholar and search for "Alzheimer's MDMA" or whatever. Also, you can search Erowid's Literature vaults for MDMA and LSD, which have THOUSANDS of articles. Best of luck!

 

[melange]

hmm using a neurotoxin for a neurodegenerative disease - sounds like the best way to boost you brains health

 

[RhythmSpring]

LSD and Psilocybin is not neurotoxic...
And a single or double dose of MDMA is not going to cause any adverse affects in the brain. MDMA neurotoxicity has to do with long-term use.

Also, nothing comes up in google or google scholar.

It sounds like it's unexplored territory............

 

[yuppu]

I thought only mda/meth produced neurotoxicity at a level that can be prevented

 

[melange]

I was talking about mdma


and how the hell would it be useful for alzheimers at all

 

[RhythmSpring]

Chill...

Would you have been able to guess that psilocybin can help with cluster headaches?

I'm not arguing that I know anything about it, I'm just wondering if any research has been done.

 

[FractalDancer]

I really don't think these drugs would be useful to treat azheimer's disease. MDMA would be more likely to worsen their memory problems. Psilocybin would perhaps help sufferers become less afraid of their condition and somehow perhaps be able to manipulate it better psychologically in the early stages of the disease, but I doubt it tbh - there are too many cognitive effects of alzheimer's as it is, it would be terrible if it worsened them.

Alzheimer's is more involved with glutamate receptors than serotonin.. memantine (an NMDAR antagonist in the same family as ketamine) is used however it has some different properties to ketamine that make it useful. Again ketamine might worsen the cognitive disturbances in alzheimer's.

 

[PepperSocks]

interesting indeed. I'm going to agree with you that it might be worthwhile research. The short-term memory loss MDMA can cause is about totally long term use. The fact that MDMA is a potent entactogen/empathogen might be useful in alzheimer's in the sense that parents who no longer recognize their children when they visit might have a session with their children and it could spark a mental reconnection. This aspect of alzheimer's is the one i find most depressing, when a 50 year old goes to see their 80 year old mother and she sais "Who the hell are you?", it would be interesting to see if MDMA could spark a reliving of primal memories.

Of course the dose should be enough to cause this reaction but not so high to cause a nasty comedown or hangover and the proper post-load remedies should be applied, i wouldn't want an elderly person to go through that nasty side of MDMA

 

[FractalDancer]

That's an interesting idea.. it could definitely be a good emotional boost for the family to see the patient happy, lucid and interacting without fear for the short space of time while they visit, but there is no knowing that this would actually happen. Any sort of drug that could do this would have benefits but might be slightly unethical giving family members false hope thinking their Azheimer's may actually be clearing up, when of course this wouldn't be true. I think mdma would have no effect on (or make worse) the synaptic dysfunctions seen in AD, and wouldn't break down amyloid beta, tau or neurofibrillary tangles.

 

[Hammilton]

Chill...

Would you have been able to guess that psilocybin can help with cluster headaches?
I'm not arguing that I know anything about it, I'm just wondering if any research has been done.

Anyone who knows anything?

Tryptans have been used for similar indications for, like, forever, man, and are extremely similar in structure.

 

[OpenMind92]

Research HAS been done...

About a year ago I did research on this topic (with google) and there was multiple sources for use. I do not know if google has removed them, but at one point they were there, and yes I did print them out and still have the pages, if you would like them send me a message. The research I believe was done by a college in the United States (it's not in front of me).

 

[MurphyClox]

"3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), but not morphine, alters APP processing in the rat brain."
International Journal of Neuropsychopharmacology 2007, 10(2), p.183

Abstract

The abuse of drugs such as opioids and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA or 'ecstasy') can have detrimental effects on the cognitive functions, but the exact mol. mechanism whereby these drugs promote neurodegeneration remains to be elucidated. The major purpose of the present pilot study was to det. whether the chronic in-vivo administration of morphine (10 mg/kg) or MDMA (1 mg/kg) to rats can alter the expression and processing of amyloid precursor protein (APP), the central mol. in the proposed pathomechanism of Alzheimer's disease. MDMA treatment significantly decreased the prodn. of APP in the cytosolic fraction of the brain cortex. A concomitant 25% increase was found both in the b-secretase (BACE) and APP mRNA levels (108 % ). In contrast, in the applied single dosage chronic morphine treatment did not influence either the APP and BACE protein levels or the APP mRNA prodn. These results indicate that the chronic use of 'ecstasy', but not morphine, may be harmful via a novel mode of action, i.e. by altering the APP expression and processing in the brain.

Conclusion: First evidence shows indeed an involvement of MDMA in the mechanisms that lead to Alzheimer's. But I would not dare to state that it increases or decreases the risk of getting it; I just point out some kind of involvement here.

Further hints were published here:
"Regional distribution to recovery of 5-HT levels after administration of "atrophins" MDMA and D,L-fenfluramine. Stereospecificity and comparison with 5,7-dihydroxytryptamine."
Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 1992, 648, p.291

Abstract

This report is the first demonstration that both stereoisomers of fenfluramine produce similar atrophic effects on serotonergic axons, which is relevant concerning the emerging use of D-fenfluramine for appetite control, the therapeutic application of this compd. The atrophy of terminals produced by fenfluramine is largely restricted to 5-HT neurons, whereas in Alzheimer's disease, the pathol. extends to numerous different types of biochem. defined neurons. With this notable difference, the pattern of atrophy, beginning in terminals, strikes a parallel to the progression obsd. in Alzheimer's disease, and may suggest a similar pathogenesis. As such, these serotonergic atrophins may offer potential as convenient therapeutic models for antineurodegenerative drugs in Alzheimer's disease.

Again, the information is quite shallow...

Apart from this, I couldn't find much else. The topic is indeed hardly studied, it seems.

@OpenMind92: If you can provide journal name, year and 1st page of your ref, I will look it up and post the result here.

Peace! Murphy

 

[5-HT2]

I am not aware of any research with MDMA or hallucinogens and Alzheimer's. However, there has been some research on MDMA and Parkinson's that was inspired by case studies of Parkinsonian patients who experienced a dramatic remission of their symptoms after taking ecstasy/MDMA.

 

[CaptainRainbow]

I am very curious what research was previously done and hidden now?

I believe LSD may have some value in Alzheimer's. Since LSD attenuates the brain's sensory input filter. By allowing more sensory input through, the stunted Alzheimer brain, may get a "kick-start" if you will? I think this idea should be explored further.

 

[nAON]

MDMA would, if anything, impair cognition - SERT has been shown to be downregulated in AD and be at least partially involved in memory problems, so anything that blocks it would make symptoms worse I assume.

LSD I also think is quite unlikely to be of any benefit - through what mechanisms would it improve cognition? AD is mostly about parts of the brain atrophying and the excitation/inhibition balance going haywire - it's a disease of perceptual processing rather than sensory input, I don't see how something like LSD would fix that in any way.

 

[poneelovesyou]

I agree, MDMA is probably not the best for a neurodegenerative disease, but I do think there's a chance theoretically that LSD, or psilocybin (or DMT) could help seeing as how they tend to upregulate BDNF and promote neurogenesis and new synaptic spines. I always think a good way to combat neurodegeneration, is with neurogenesis. Also atleast with ayahuasca, it's been found to increase SERT platelets in the serum. But who really knows...

 

[DL-ark]

Using MDMA for alzheimers, is a, at best, terrible idea, at worst it is catastrophic. It is neurotoxic whether you like it or not, yes, even on a single use. LSD, I'm not sure but I'm certain it would create anxiety for the user, and although it would promote neurogenesis as poneelovesyou said, you could not chronically treat someone with a psychedelic. Any sort of therapy involving psychedelics has to be single, seperated uses. There is no evidence that LSD would reverse or even slow alzheimers, in fact I believe I read somewhere that psychedelic 5HT2A agonists involve agonizing 5HT2A-glutamate heteromers, and if that were true, LSD could also be just as fucking catastrophic as using MDMA. Alzheimers easily leads to dementia, which can easily cause psychosis. You wouldn't treat an at-risk-psychotic person with LSD or MDMA.

I'm very sorry to make judgements, but your (OP's) constant attempts to push the idea that these psychedelics could be used against ALZHEIMERS as some sort of dream drug seems to me the attempts of someone who thinks that psychedelics, among other illegal drugs, outlawed by the man, are incredibly useful in curing almost every disease. Yes, they have proven useful for specific diseases like PTSD, and cluster migraines, (MDMA and LSD, respectively) but it seems to me that you are thinking that these types of drugs can be a cure all for anything, without any sort of evidence or background info.

Perhaps, I am wrong, and then perhaps you will forgive me for my judgement in a life far away in time. However, as someone who's grandmother is currently falling into the grips of alzheimers, and a grandfather who had fairly late stage dementia, I'd hate to see anyone's symptoms accelerated or intensified by this proposed "research", and thus I wish to dispel these ridiculous proposals.

 

[endotropic]

There is no evidence that LSD would reverse or even slow alzheimers, in fact I believe I read somewhere that psychedelic 5HT2A agonists involve agonizing 5HT2A-glutamate heteromers, and if that were true, LSD could also be just as fucking catastrophic as using MDMA. Alzheimers easily leads to dementia, which can easily cause psychosis. You wouldn't treat an at-risk-psychotic person with LSD or MDMA.

I'm very sorry to make judgements, but your (OP's) constant attempts to push the idea that these psychedelics could be used against ALZHEIMERS as some sort of dream drug seems to me the attempts of someone who thinks that psychedelics, among other illegal drugs, outlawed by the man, are incredibly useful in curing almost every disease. Yes, they have proven useful for specific diseases like PTSD, and cluster migraines, (MDMA and LSD, respectively) but it seems to me that you are thinking that these types of drugs can be a cure all for anything, without any sort of evidence or background info.

5-HT2A and mGlur3 exist as antagonistic heterodimers from what I remember, meaning activation of one will oppose the other, inhibition of one will enhance the other. If that's the dominant interaction you wouldn't really expect a catastrophic effect.

I think speculation like this comes primarily from the longstanding federal ban on human psychedelic research. For any other class of drug we would just test for these effects; with research censored we just have to wonder what might happen. I think the success of MDMA for PTSD should at least get us interested in finding other areas we can use these drugs.

 

[dopamimetic]

In this context it is odd to see Memantine being the only somewhat potent NMDA antagonist that is available by regular prescription (try to get a Ketamine prescription for treatment resistant depression for example and you know what I mean), has been on the market for a long time, is sold up to now -generics are available in the EU since 2013 or 14 in some countries- for high prices to the masses against early alzheimer's and having questionable (at least in the German speaking area this is said) efficacy for this indication. While NMDA antagonists of course are neuroprotective at least against glutamatergic overexcictation, it could -and does- have good potential for some hard to treat psychiatric issues and is probably anti convulsive and helps with tolerance issues to some degree on stimulants and opioids.

Ok, there is DXM available all over the world. But that is not the best example for a clean NMDA antagonist.

And it's not that all these approved psychopharms have excellent tolerability, safety and efficacy profiles, really. Just that NMDA antagonists can be "abused" and could lead to worsening of psychiatric issues -in some- (neuroleptics can do that too, imo).

I think speculation like this comes primarily from the longstanding federal ban on human psychedelic research. For any other class of drug we would just test for these effects; with research censored we just have to wonder what might happen. I think the success of MDMA for PTSD should at least get us interested in finding other areas we can use these drugs.

While I understand the position of DL-ark, I do agree to that.