Benzos Alcohol withdrawal and Ativan

[Cloudman115]

Well, it’s been 72 hours from last drink, heading into day four. I have been a alcoholic for 20 years. I was sober for 2 months up till Christmas Eve and have been drunk almost every day Since. I usually drink a minimum of 6-8 beers, 9% alcohol, from 4pm to 8pm, more on the weekends. I recently in life, have added Ativan into the mix to recover from my drinking. It works great lowering my blood pressure, reducing the hallucinations and the rebound anxiety That comes from the withdrawaI. I am starting to think I am relying on Ativan too much on days I don’t drink, usually .5 mg when I know I will be drinking again soon.
so, day 1 no alcohol I took a total, of 1.75mg , second day was rough especially at night with the Vivid thoughts, anxiety, shadow people ( I love the shadow people ) and my worst symptom high blood pressure at 170/95 so I dosed 2.25mg total (1.75mg at night), my blood pressure reduces to 140/85, pulse is good at 72, oxygen is high, i get 5 hours of sleep, wake up and go to work. So, day three no Ativan so far! Great. I know I’ll dose .5 maybe 1mg tonight to help sleep. I realize I still have it in my system but so far so good.
I guess, my question is should I worry about benzo withdrawal after I remove all alcohol withdrawal in the next couple of days?
never been addicted to benZos and since January 1, I’ve taken them maybe 20 times usually at .5mg daily but sometimes 4-5 days at 2mg. Always with some breaks of heavy drinking In between.
I am serious about staying sober, getting healthy again and not going down a benzodiazepine road. If I use 2 more days at 1mg should I just jump or should I taper? Any worries? I guess I will see.

i needed to write this because I fucking love the knowledge on hear thanks

 

[xaddictx]

Yes. I'd cut out the alcohol first. And when you have anxiety just take the ativan when needed. Then slowly taper the ativan. I had a heavy vodka and beer problem. I've finally had enough and my doctor started me on Librium, slowly tapering down until I was able to jump off. Went to meetings which helped. If thats your thing. I wanted to get better (key word) and I'm doing great now. Maybe 2 beers a week for me. Best of luck to you!

 

[Keif' Richards]

Well, it’s been 72 hours from last drink, heading into day four. I have been a alcoholic for 20 years. I was sober for 2 months up till Christmas Eve and have been drunk almost every day Since. I usually drink a minimum of 6-8 beers, 9% alcohol, from 4pm to 8pm, more on the weekends. I recently in life, have added Ativan into the mix to recover from my drinking. It works great lowering my blood pressure, reducing the hallucinations and the rebound anxiety That comes from the withdrawaI. I am starting to think I am relying on Ativan too much on days I don’t drink, usually .5 mg when I know I will be drinking again soon.
so, day 1 no alcohol I took a total, of 1.75mg , second day was rough especially at night with the Vivid thoughts, anxiety, shadow people ( I love the shadow people ) and my worst symptom high blood pressure at 170/95 so I dosed 2.25mg total (1.75mg at night), my blood pressure reduces to 140/85, pulse is good at 72, oxygen is high, i get 5 hours of sleep, wake up and go to work. So, day three no Ativan so far! Great. I know I’ll dose .5 maybe 1mg tonight to help sleep. I realize I still have it in my system but so far so good.
I guess, my question is should I worry about benzo withdrawal after I remove all alcohol withdrawal in the next couple of days?
never been addicted to benZos and since January 1, I’ve taken them maybe 20 times usually at .5mg daily but sometimes 4-5 days at 2mg. Always with some breaks of heavy drinking In between.
I am serious about staying sober, getting healthy again and not going down a benzodiazepine road. If I use 2 more days at 1mg should I just jump or should I taper? Any worries? I guess I will see.

i needed to write this because I fucking love the knowledge on hear thanks

Hey @Cloudman115

You're in luck because I've withdrawn from Alcohol more than once, so I'm pretty familiar with it. Moments of severe boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror. Believe me when I say that I am proud and supportive of your decision, as is anyone else on BL who has been through this. It's difficult, painful but worth it. IT DOES END. Even if you have nothing else to cling to, cling to the knowledge that IT WILL END.

An important thing to know is that Benzodiazepines and Ethyl Alcohol are highly cross-tolerant. This should be evident in the fact that Benzodiazepines alleviate symptoms of Alcohol withdrawal. Next, familiarize yourself with the "Kindling Effect" as it is known medically. This phenomenon: when a person drinks chronically and becomes physically dependent upon Alcohol, then withdraws and becomes sober, the next instance of habituation/dependence/withdrawal will come on sooner, be more intense and last longer.

This phenomenon is only attested to in medical literature regarding sedative-hypnotics like Benzodiazepines, Barbiturates and Alcohol, but it's my belief that this effect is not limited to these drugs alone, but is more of a general bodily response to chronic substance use. For instance, most people who use Opioids don't become dependent until they have been using for months, whereas someone who has been an Opioid user on a chronic basis can pick up a serious habit within 3-4 days and the withdrawal syndrome will be pretty indistinguisable from a syndrome resulting from months of usage.

The dosages of Lorazepam (Ativan) that you are using are definitely what I would call "responsible". You're mind is in the right place. You only want to use the Lorazepam to get through the withdrawal. It's about using the Lorazepam and not letting it use you, which is no easy feat. My advice would be to gradually reduce the dose of Lorazepam over the course of a week or two. A simple advantage of using pharmaceuticals here is that you can titrate in a more accurate way than you ever could by just drinking Alcohol.

Being that these drugs are cross-tolerant to a significant extent, you can really look this scenario as: you are already dependent upon sedative/hypnotics. The Lorazepam is just an easier and more predictable means of withdrawing. Keep us posted dude. We're all happy to help

 

[jasperkent]

The dosages of Lorazepam (Ativan) that you are using are definitely what I would call "responsible". You're mind is in the right place. You only want to use the Lorazepam to get through the withdrawal. It's about using the Lorazepam and not letting it use you, which is no easy feat. My advice would be to gradually reduce the dose of Lorazepam over the course of a week or two. A simple advantage of using pharmaceuticals here is that you can titrate in a more accurate way than you ever could by just drinking Alcohol.

^this^

Just be very careful, get off the alcohol first, and keep close track of what you're taking. Write it down (time/amount) if you have to.
I once tried to get off booze using benzos and ended up with a severe addiction to BOTH. It was absolutely hellish. Worst WDs ever, by far.
Keep in touch.

 

[Endopharm]

Great decision!

I enjoyed drinking my whole life, and it didn't really effect my life, but I was setting a bad example for my children, so I quit.

Initially I was so scared to quit, the anxiety made it very hard to make the cut.

One day I just through away my last beer and said fuck it. This starts now.

The first day really just felt crappie, almost like a flu. I couldn't eat and I had a hard time sleeping. So after two nights I just said I'm just going to act like nothing happened, get moving, stay busy.

By day 3 it literally was like nothing happened. I felt awesome. It took a few weeks to sleep great again, but I slept OK.

I also had to force myself to eat. I just thought, what's the worst that can happen? I vomit??? Big deal. After that my hunger came back quick.

After about a week I went right to a party with a bottle of diet coke, just to get the social part out of the way. It didn't bother me much at all.

After 6 months of no alcohol, a treatment center had an open bed in the program that I had applied to waaay earlier. So I told the wife, and said I'm just going to go and see what I can learn. And im glad I did, it was a great program, I met great people and I actually ended up working there as a nutritional consultant and alternative therapies Co ordinator.

You can do this man! Hopefully your more psychological than physiological, but either way, I have faith you'll be just fine and VERY happy with your decision.

I catch flack for this, but don't refer to yourself as an addict. It's self defeating and people tend to look down on you. Be proud! Cognitive behavioral therapy is something to look into also, and if you can, go to therapy. It's always nice to learn why we do what we do, so we can learn and correct them.

Kudos man and keep up the great work!!!!!!

Endo

 

[Cloudman115]

Hey thanks guys, I do want to do this and made it 5 days than started drinking again. Its sad cause I just got a new job that I enjoy but I always go back to the poison I know it’s doing damage to my body I fucking feel it. Plus, beer puts on so much weight for me.
I am all for cognitive behavioral therapy and once my insurance kicks in I will make a appointment. I’ve used a Psychologist before but i don’t think he focused on cognitive behavior it was helpful, he tried to get me to drink less instead of never. I stopped going and the drinking cycle was repeated.

so today is back to day two of no alcohol. I know I am hurting my recovery every time I relapse because of the kindling effect. So, I will take .75 mg three times today and then hopefully .5 mg Ativan 3 times on day 4-5. Than reduce and hopefully jump off the following weekend. I don’t have a unlimited supply of Ativan so I am playing with fire if I can’t get this done. Good news is I see my doctor early April and I will come clean of my issues.I Always down played my struggles but i am sure he knew.

I always come on here when I am doing good or want to make a change. Than when I slip up I avoid the site because I feel ashamed and like a failure.
hopefully this time is different, I have some support but am basically doing it on my own.
I make sure to update my progress as it seems to motivate me to succeed
thanks to everyone who responded and the GREAT advice, ideas and always,knowledge and experience.

 

[jasperkent]

You're doing fine. Don't let a minor slip bother you too much. Relapses occur much more often than not. One of the things I hated about 12-Step programs is the idea that if you're sober for X amount of time and then have one drink (or pill or whatever), then you're back at square one (white chip and all that).
Bullshit.
Any amount of time clean/sober is an accomplishment worth being proud of. And you don't "lose" that time, ever.
Just focus on your goals, try to eat right, get plenty of rest, etc...
Sounds to me like you're on a good path.

 

[axe battler]

Hey @Cloudman115 well done for making the decision to stop. You're making some good progress.

It seems like you're at least using the lorazepam responsibly. There are better benzos for alcohol withdrawal, but if you can make do with the Ativan, then just try and use that.

The only advice I can give is keep trying, don't beat yourself up, and get yourself some CBT if that helped previously!

Good luck mate!

 

[Cloudman115]

You're doing fine. Don't let a minor slip bother you too much. Relapses occur much more often than not. One of the things I hated about 12-Step programs is the idea that if you're sober for X amount of time and then have one drink (or pill or whatever), then you're back at square one (white chip and all that).
Bullshit.
Any amount of time clean/sober is an accomplishment worth being proud of. And you don't "lose" that time, ever.
Just focus on your goals, try to eat right, get plenty of rest, etc...
Sounds to me like you're on a good path.

Thanks, yeah I never did AA. Don’t think it would work for me. Probably more of a scientific approach is the way I will go.

my withdrawals last 4 days max. My problem is “riding the wave” when I get cravings after day 4. That’s ultimately what I need to work on either if I go abstinent from alcohol or try to drink one six pack throughout the week.

once I stop drinking I exercise, eat healthy, feel bette mentally and I try to improve my life.

I am learning more about the brain and alcohol relationship.hopefully, that will help me stay sober for longer than 2-4 months.

 

[ghostandthedarknes]

if you can lay hands on diazepam aka valium. stop drinking at bedtime. next day take 10mg valium 3 times a day and no drinking. same on day 2, take 10mg 3x a day. on days 3 and 4 take 5mg, 3 times a day. you are out of the woods with minimal pain. it's how they detox you here in country jail. very effective.

 

[Cloudman115]

Hey @Cloudman115 well done for making the decision to stop. You're making some good progress.

It seems like you're at least using the lorazepam responsibly. There are better benzos for alcohol withdrawal, but if you can make do with the Ativan, then just try and use that.

The only advice I can give is keep trying, don't beat yourself up, and get yourself some CBT if that helped previously!

Good luck mate!

What’s CBT?
I definitely try to use as little Ativan as possible definitely less than what is recommended on reports for alcohol withdrawal.
I do worry about connecting to many days of drinking with no Ativan with days of no alcohol and low dose Ativan. I have maybe 20-25 .5mg pills left. So not much.
I have a friend who uses benzodiazepines and he probably never will be off it. I Don’t want to rely on any substance.

Yeah, if I keep slipping up I’ll see what my doctor recommends, in early April, I get my insurance and Already have an appointment.

 

[Cloudman115]

if you can lay hands on diazepam aka valium. stop drinking at bedtime. next day take 10mg valium 3 times a day and no drinking. same on day 2, take 10mg 3x a day. on days 3 and 4 take 5mg, 3 times a day. you are out of the woods with minimal pain. it's how they detox you here in country jail. very effective.

Okay. I got a doctors appointment early April, he is very reliable and helpful but as of now all I got is my deceased mothers leftover Ativan pills. I probably have to taper some because I been fucking with Ativan for a month or so on and off at low doses.

 

[ghostandthedarknes]

Okay. I got a doctors appointment early April, he is very reliable and helpful but as of now all I got is my deceased mothers leftover Ativan pills. I probably have to taper some because I been fucking with Ativan for a month or so on and off at low doses.

good luck. i been there more than once. you can get through it

 

[Cloudman115]

What’s CBT?
I definitely try to use as little Ativan as possible definitely less than what is recommended on reports for alcohol withdrawal.
I do worry about connecting to many days of drinking with no Ativan with days of no alcohol and low dose Ativan. I have maybe 20-25 .5mg pills left. So not much.
I have a friend who uses benzodiazepines and he probably never will be off it. I Don’t want to rely on any substance.

Yeah, if I keep slipping up I’ll see what my doctor recommends, in early April, I get my insurance and Already have an appointment.

Got it CBT my bad.

 

[axe battler]

CBT is cognitive behavioural therapy. I think you mentioned it yourself and said it helped.

Yeah it's not a good idea to get hooked on benzos when trying to stop drinking as their withdrawal is awful and it's hard to get a prescription these days.

Just keep trying

 

[Cloudman115]

^this^

Just be very careful, get off the alcohol first, and keep close track of what you're taking. Write it down (time/amount) if you have to.
I once tried to get off booze using benzos and ended up with a severe addiction to BOTH. It was absolutely hellish. Worst WDs ever, by far.
Keep in touch.

how much benzos we’re u taking and for how long before you got into trouble? Because I am slowly heading down that road

 

[Cloudman115]

Hey @Cloudman115

You're in luck because I've withdrawn from Alcohol more than once, so I'm pretty familiar with it. Moments of severe boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror. Believe me when I say that I am proud and supportive of your decision, as is anyone else on BL who has been through this. It's difficult, painful but worth it. IT DOES END. Even if you have nothing else to cling to, cling to the knowledge that IT WILL END.

An important thing to know is that Benzodiazepines and Ethyl Alcohol are highly cross-tolerant. This should be evident in the fact that Benzodiazepines alleviate symptoms of Alcohol withdrawal. Next, familiarize yourself with the "Kindling Effect" as it is known medically. This phenomenon: when a person drinks chronically and becomes physically dependent upon Alcohol, then withdraws and becomes sober, the next instance of habituation/dependence/withdrawal will come on sooner, be more intense and last longer.

This phenomenon is only attested to in medical literature regarding sedative-hypnotics like Benzodiazepines, Barbiturates and Alcohol, but it's my belief that this effect is not limited to these drugs alone, but is more of a general bodily response to chronic substance use. For instance, most people who use Opioids don't become dependent until they have been using for months, whereas someone who has been an Opioid user on a chronic basis can pick up a serious habit within 3-4 days and the withdrawal syndrome will be pretty indistinguisable from a syndrome resulting from months of usage.

The dosages of Lorazepam (Ativan) that you are using are definitely what I would call "responsible". You're mind is in the right place. You only want to use the Lorazepam to get through the withdrawal. It's about using the Lorazepam and not letting it use you, which is no easy feat. My advice would be to gradually reduce the dose of Lorazepam over the course of a week or two. A simple advantage of using pharmaceuticals here is that you can titrate in a more accurate way than you ever could by just drinking Alcohol.

Being that these drugs are cross-tolerant to a significant extent, you can really look this scenario as: you are already dependent upon sedative/hypnotics. The Lorazepam is just an easier and more predictable means of withdrawing. Keep us posted dude. We're all happy to help

I appreciate the scientific approach. I’ve been doing some research on alcohol & the brain In hopes to help me in my journey.
do you drink at all or did you abstain? I am Curious which way people, who had alcohol issues in the past, are living life now.

 

[Cloudman115]

Yes. I'd cut out the alcohol first. And when you have anxiety just take the ativan when needed. Then slowly taper the ativan. I had a heavy vodka and beer problem. I've finally had enough and my doctor started me on Librium, slowly tapering down until I was able to jump off. Went to meetings which helped. If thats your thing. I wanted to get better (key word) and I'm doing great now. Maybe 2 beers a week for me. Best of luck to you!

So no issues drinking just two beers? Curious which way I will try because every time I practice abstinence I usually self destruct.

 

[Conky]

So no issues drinking just two beers? Curious which way I will try because every time I practice abstinence I usually self destruct.

If I were you I would completely avoid alcohol

Personally I cannot just stick to a few beers because 2 will turn into 30 which will then turn into lots and lots of whisky

For some reason I don't get hangovers so there's really not much incentive to stop other than fear of withdrawal

 

[jasperkent]

It was many years ago so I can't give precise details but I know at some point I was taking benzos+alcohol. Bad idea. Very bad.
Get off the booze first. Then taper off the benzos. Please don't mix. It can be disastrous.