Benzos Alcohol w/o Benzos Temporarily

[Jack0trade]

**I ranted, the "bottom line" is at, conveniently, the bottom if you don't want to read all the BS in between. If relevant, I can cite it in the course of the discussion to better explain my reasoning or...whatever. However, reading part of the post may give you a better idea of where I'm at and possibly, what I need.**

Hi,

I have a prescription for 1mg clonazepam (3 times a day) w/ 3 refills left but the it can't be filled again until October 2nd. I normally make the 30 day mark but this last month has been a bad one. My mother had an operation that appears to have gone badly, and I've been staying with her to help her out. I love my mom but she's a cranky lady and her being in horrid pain doesn't help as you can imagine. On top of that I had a falling out with my brother, whom I'm very close to. When I say "falling out" I'm not sure that's appropriate since his last words were "never contact me again." It's one of the few times a broken relationship has hurt so much as to cause recurring dreams and nightmares, I'm normally a loner and I'm just fine with it. But we were real close. For the next week my stomach was in a knot and I couldn't eat. One way I know I can make myself hungry is with my prescription. If I take more than prescribed, that is.

Their are OTC concoctions that can ease me through until next Friday, I know from a past experience before I had my dosage bumped and was running out before refill time. And alcohol was something I parted with last year after it landed me in a hospital a second time, for a week, leaving against doctor's wishes. But I was hitting hard liquor and pretty hard at that. After feeling the acute withdrawal the first time, I know how bad it can be without medical assistance but once I finally relented, after not being able to keep any food down, insomnia, constant discomfort and feeling like I was generally just going to die, I went to n ER. They got me in immediately and had me cured and on my way in a few hours. There were complications due to the immediate withdrawal that they corrected, but I think after a week of not drinking made the recovery much more swift. Second time around, I couldn't even give it 3 days. I had to call an ambulance. I thought I was having a heart attack. It was the Holiday season and the ER was packed so I had to wait hours to finally be seen. When I got to the back and was told to lay down, you'd think that'd be the beginning of the recovery but it wasn't. I laid back and had this insane feeling I can't even describe. Extreme light headedness where i felt I could feel myself losing consciousness and I freaked out. I thought I was going to die. No amount of ambien seemed to settle me down for the first night, but after I was stabilized I was moved to a room with a guy far worse off than I was and proceeded to get my strength back. The reason they didn't want me to leave was because whenever i fell asleep, I wasn't breathing properly. I know that's an emergency to them but to me, dying in my sleep is a life ambition. A possible false presumption that i would be a peaceful way to go and at that point, I really didn't care either way.

So I got out, swore off alcohol and haven't touched it since the day I checked into the ER. I've been treating it like rat poison. Even beers I LOVE, like Guinness, I haven't touched.

But in the worst case scenario I'm facing here, I'll be out of pills 5 days before refill time. I'd like to just sleep those days away, something I know alcohol won't let me do. Little cat naps interrupted by the alcohol level reducing in my blood stream, leading to needing more to get by. This is binging and it's a dangerous thing, I realize that. And it always seems like after I drink, pills don't work or make things worse until the alcohol is completely out of my system. My prescription ESPECIALLY, which I suppose makes sense due to their similar properties and effects on the brain.

But what if lets say this coming Sunday or Monday, football days, I got a case of light beer and waited fro any lingering effects to wear off before indulging again. And of course, I'd wait until the benzo was completely expunged from my system before taking the first drink. And then the day before the refill, I'd wait 10 hours before taking my first dose. Would this be a good management to either avoid completely, or at least lessen the withdrawal symptoms from the K-Pins? Or is this a really, really bad idea? I've become terrified of alcohol since my last hospital stay but desperate times... and with nothing and no one to lose, except my mother which is a reality I'll have to deal with sooner than later, it makes it even easier for me to take that chance. Yhis is tl;dr material on most forums so I'll cut it "short" here and await some replies. I have thin skin normally but this last flling out, the thngs said, I've become numb to harsh criticism so fire away if you feel you must. I've finally gotten over my sadness over the falling out and turned it to rage, because we don't live in a black/white world and it's not like he hasn't done or said things I should deem unforgivable, either. I'm not even sure if he had a change of heart and came back to make amends with me, if I'd be open to it. Brothers fight the worst, he took a swipe at my throat and I took one at his. He has a family now which he uses as a shield to make himself appear as the white knight in all of this and I'm the guy with no real desire to even bother making friends at my age, let alone grovel to a little brother who's sins and wrong doings may even outdo my own. I can do without our entire species. They drain me. The only one left is my mom and her life expectancy is up in the air now. That will be the last loss to to make me weep. Everyone else can go their own way.

So, bottom line, if managed correctly, can beer compensate for a lack of benzos and help me through it? I should note i've been on these pills for 4 years so...yeah. It can get bad. Also, there are physical reasons to take them, as well. Probably caused by the drug itself, being taken long term, but that's spilled milk at this point.

Sorry for the rant. I anxiously await a reply. Thank you.

 

[Mad Dash]

As this is a particularly dangerous scenario I am just going g to say it sounds like you are doing great by treating alcohol like rat poison. IMO people on benzos really should not drink because even if you don't feel the effects the half life may still be active. Now this won't harm you but it will screw with your tolerance. I find that people who abuse alcohol don't get full benefit of benzos. If you can do it I would say just stop drinking it is not worth it. Like you said it is too easy to end up binging. You drink to sleep but alcohol inhibits restful sleep so when you wake up you feel like you need more sleep because the booze didn't cut it. At least benzos can provide restful sleep. But again it is a double edged sword you don't want to use them too often and risk benzo addiction. Keep at it my friend alcohol is not the answer.

 

[Jack0trade]

I sincerely appreciate the advice and will follow it in regards to alcohol. One thing is, and maybe I didn't make this clear, and for that i apologize, is that I have a severe dependence on clonazepam. "Dependence" being the gentle word for addiction. Now I don't take it to get high, and whenever i do take a larger dose it's usually to calm myself and sleep off whatever agitated me. Right now, at the worst of times, I don't have that option and won't until next Friday. I've felt benzo withdrawal creeping, but have never fully experienced the misery others speak of in regards to their own struggles getting off. I also believe there is a physical need for the medication, some long preceding my first benzo script and others, I'm willing to bet, were probably caused by the benzo itself. So I'm just as scared of ceasing my intake of clonazepam as I am of drinking alcohol, now. Especially since I know a benzo isn't the immediate sole answer to acute alcohol withdrawal. Meaning it's wasted, I don't even feel the effects of the benzo so long as the alcohol is in my system. But like i said, and it was probably missed since I wrote something more akin to a bad article than a post, is that I have quit drinking since my last Hospital visit and swore it off for good. And since then I've made good on that, but recent events...I won't blame recent events, I'll blame myself for even thinking that my prescription in excess and then, alcohol, would help dull some of these feelings I'm having. Saddness, worry, hate and rage. They eat me from the inside out.

 

[Mad Dash]

I see, is there anyway you could get some gabapentin? Pretty much any doctor would write that for you with ease. That would not only help with the anxiety but it will also completely cover the WD. As for using alcohol as a bridge between the time you run out to the time you get your refill... for about an hour you might feel some minor relief but as soon as it wears off you will be putting yourself at serious risk for a seizure, alcohol in benzo WD is usually a very bad idea because it can make everything much much worse. Yes alcohol works on GABA but it is different receptors. I would NOT recommend this.

 

[speedballs_over]

You absolutly need to see a physician imo, the risk of serious life threatening seizures not to mention the general hell of benzo w/ds calls for medical intervention. You may have to admit your overuse of your prescription. That's better than the alternatives if you do nothing. You did have two legitimate reasons why your anxiety would have spiked. If you've been taking clonazepam for a long time and never have run short - that the docs/pharmacies know of you may well get cut some slack.

You could have "lost" them or had them maybe stolen, but I can't advocate lying, I can only mention it in the name of reducing your chances of harm.

Please seek medical advice b/f you run out of k-pins or immediately if you already have run out.

 

[Mad Dash]

You absolutly need to see a physician imo, the risk of serious life threatening seizures not to mention the general hell of benzo w/ds calls for medical intervention. You may have to admit your overuse of your prescription. That's better than the alternatives if you do nothing. You did have two legitimate reasons why your anxiety would have spiked. If you've been taking clonazepam for a long time and never have run short - that the docs/pharmacies know of you may well get cut some slack.

You could have "lost" them or had them maybe stolen, but I can't advocate lying, I can only mention it in the name of reducing your chances of harm.

Please seek medical advice b/f you run out of k-pins or immediately if you already have run out.

Hate to say it but I would agree on this only in the name of HR. I don't want them taking you off all benzos and then you are seriously fucked. DO NOT admit abuse. But ya you really need to see a doctor.

 

[speedballs_over]

If you have refills on this 'script and don't need a newly issued prescription can you get an early refill at the pharmacy b/c you're traveling for awhile and leaving tomorrow? My insurance allows me to refill my diazepam up to a week early.

These are always difficult calls to make. I agree it'd be bad to loose your benzo 'script. I fucked up a few times and was honest about it, I have a forgiving physician. Many are not so forgiving.

Get medical help - that's for certain. As to what to say, you have options. Choose carefully is the idea here.

The first time it happened to me I used the, "I lost a weeks worth to a pill container spill, lost my other meds too, need all refilled today..." It worked. Next time I had to admit my abuse, the lost thing I knew wouldn't fly again. In my mind though you didn't abuse them, you simply didn't follow your dosing instructions, but the medical community isn't as forgiving as I would be...

If it were me and being the first time again, I'd go with "lost them", esp. if it's less than a week's worth. But there's so many factors we don't know - your age, your relationship with your doctor, your state/country and how closely your monitored, if you have addiction on your med records, etc.... All of which would influence how exactly I would suggest you handle this...

So just opinions / options for ya. Hope it works out, but do get something to prevent seizures gaba, lyrica, clonazepam until your refill is ready. That is the really important point here - you need to not let your gaba receptors to their own devices, they need pharmaceutical help.

Edit: mostly why I initially suggested being honest and saying you used a few extra on some seriously stressful days was to adhere to BL rules against helping people score drugs. I should have thought it through more, sometimes HR isn't clear cut.

 

[Jack0trade]

I hope I don't sound too pathetic, but I'm touched by these replies.

I'm not going to lie to you, I'm feeling suicidal. Many say it's the coward's way out. Well, I am a coward and I've never been able to bring myself to do it even in what I felt, before this, were my darkest hours. But this is both physical and mental torture to a weakling like me. I prefer solitude, but we all need someone special to call when we're in a rut. If my mother dies, I have no one.

To answer a couple questions, I've actually lost a prescription before. I mean I really lost it. Or it was stolen. Either way, my insurance company didn't care. The pharmacist didn't care. No one takes benzo withdrawal seriously. They just see me as a scumbag drug addict. Maybe I should change my look, I do look like Che Guevara, minus the beret and the communism. I'm even half Irish and half Spanish, like him lol.

Half Irish. Half Spanish. And half bearpig.

If I lie and say they're stolen, I'll have to file a police report first. And I don't want any cops around here. I don't hate cops, they just scare me to death. From my experience with them, even when you call them, they're looking for reasons to take everyone to jail. They're a lot like criminals I've known, always on the take. Criminals are always looking for a score, and so are they.

My insurance company is by the book and especially with controlled substances. I guess I'll do a walk in to a doctor's office either tomorrow or Thursday, see if I can't get a bridge or this gabapentin Mad Dash spoke of. I had no idea there were any drugs for benzo withdrawals, I had never heard of it. It sounds ideal. One thing is I don't want to go behind my NP's back. The NP that writes my scripts is a really nice old Russian lady, so we have a good relationship. I'm a history buff so we talk Russia, the cold war, the World Wars more than we do about my health sometimes. We also talk family, but I've lost all but one now so...but I'm not sure if she takes walk-ins. And I'm not sure I want to reveal that I ran out early under any circumstance. She's nice, but she's also gotta eat. She can't get fired, or worse, for me. Whatever my issues are. It's contradictory, I wish they'd take this more seriously and i want to fight for it, but at the same time I don't want to get any of them in trouble. It's frustrating, and I can hate it but they don't make the rules. But the ignorance of professionals is really scary, how they don't know how dangerous it can be to take someone off the meds, whatever the reason, really makes you question their purpose. Don't stop taking them, but if you run out early, we won't give you any. Or we will, but then we'll turn around and ween you off too quickly. Or even if the weening is done right, then I still have the original issues that got me the script in the first place. And now there are physical complications, as well.

So I have 5 left. Until next Friday. I'm thinking two days off, one day on as an alternative to seeing a doctor. To keep me just barely hanging on. But that's underdosing and I've read it's dangerous, as well.

I just wish the healthcare field took benzos more seriously. It's scary that they don't. Anyway, I went to the drug store to see if they had some sleep aides, a melatonin/valerian/something else mix that worked really well in the past. They didn't have it. But I walked right past the liquor. I did notice Jose Quervo cost less than all the other sleep aides I saw, but as good as temporary relief sounds right now, I will NEVER forget last year. I honestly believe I physically cannot drink anymore without taking a gamble with my life. Here I am, feeling like this has to end in suicide but the poison to do it is right there and I didn't touch it. I'm still not quite sure what I'm more terrified of, life or death.

I'll tell you what, right now I'm really missing my little brother. Anyways, thanks for the advice. I'll check back in this week and let you know how I handled it.

 

[Mad Dash]

Hey brother, if you ever want to talk to someone for any reason please go ahead and PM me, I will even give you my cell phone # so you can text someone if things get really bad. Everybody should have someone to talk to when they are in the dumps. Take these next few says seriously and carefully, also please know that if you start to feel like you are dying go to the ER they will have to treat you. Bring in your RX and so show them that you are RXd it, but had some bad days and had to take more and now are in the death throws of a benzo WD?

 

[manboychef]

You sound like your feeling lower than a grasshoppers knees my friend. I will also give you my # to text me if you pm me. Everyone does need someone to talk to even if it is just a text message.

I feel for you when it comes to the sadness and wanting to end it. I had one suicide attempt in my life, luckily the heroin I was using to OD on was bunk. It opened my eyes, and it is no cowards way out.

First my advice about the benzos. I too am dependent on them, however I never abuse them. I am prescribed two extra .5mg xanax a day every month. There has only been one day that I really needed to take them, so I completely understand what it is like to start getting chaotic/panic laden thoughts and need something to mellow you out. In an emergency (benzo withdrawal is always an emergency) go to the hospital they will stabilize you and give you enough ativan or valium (generally valium for people on clonazepam because of the long half lifes) to help you get through a few days at least. Secondly, talk to your doctor. She sounds reasonable, and if she is prescribing benzodiazapines then she must know what the side effects, and withdrawal are like. Let her know that you had an incredibly bad month, if you talked about family frequently then she should empathize with you about your fight with your brother. I would also try the lost story. It worked for me once when I was still abusing them...however I do not advocate lying, but this is a seriously dangerous situation, so the ends justify the means.

After this blows over, as everything does..."this too shall pass.", I would talk to her about your excess stress and agitation, she may prescribe you rescue doses like my .5mg xanax. The only thing about that is you need to be extremely careful about not taking to many of those. Everyone's life is long periods of boring nothingness interspersed with brief spikes of happiness and sadness. The rescue doses are for times when the sadness is too much, or the anxiety of nothingness is too much. Use it only then and you will never run out again. I have a stockpile of .5mg xanax now, and honestly I just leave them, because I am loving life sober.

For your mental health issues, I can't diagnose you over the internet...but to me it seems you may be dealing with major depressive disorder. Talk therapy and medication helps this. If you have insurance Definitely seek out some help, as this is proven to work wonders for people with MDD.

Good luck, and u can always hit me up.

 

[Jack0trade]

OK, I have GREAT news and bad news that seems a little trivial now. I caught my little brother at one of our spots where we have mutual friends or whatever...not really friends, more like acquaintances and I pulled him aside, braced myself for a headshot and amazingly we worked it out. It's been eating me alive from the iside out, like I said I don't consider myself close to too many people anymore. All of my good friends from High School are all married with children and live in different areas now, I'm really one of the only ones who stayed in "the dark side," lol. You know, partying, whoring, general debauchery. I'm rated R...sometime NC-17. So it was a real blow to me when it didn't seem like we would ever have contact again. I still sense a little awkwardness but we hugged and made plans to make plans. So that's like a world of worry off my shoulders.

I won't forget about this place, though. I owe you all a debt for listening to my whining and general...whatever you want to call it, lol. And Mad Dash, I really appreciate you reaching out and offering your cell number. Some great people here, I'll tell you what. Restores my faith in the internut. Seems like every just gets online to fight these days but you all showed genuine concern and that's not something I'll forget. Now I'm going to have to threaten you all that I may become a regular, lol.

The bad news is that I am down to 2 pills until next Friday. My miracle wonder OTC drugs that I thought would get me through this thing, of course, didn't. I can go down tomorrow for a med bridge, I found out, but l'm sure you guys know that these people treat each day like a penalty. If I go in Friday, it means I "abused" 3 more days worth. Thing is, and I don't know if this is due to the lack of medication or because I haven't had a night where this whole sorry episode wasn't the center of my nightmares, is that I've been waking up in the middle of the night like I had a hole on my stomach. Like, extreme nervousness. It's hard to explain. You guys think if I half these last two pills I can make it to Monday? I mean, worse case scenario is that I have to call an ambulance or something if I start feeling too bad. And it HAS been bad, but nothing compared to the shit with the alcohol. I'd take ass-whippings from Mike Tyson flown in from 1987 in a time machine, every day of the week, rather than go through that again. I mean, I swear to GOD I'm never touching alcohol again. My dad's side were all alcoholics and I think my body lets me know I shouldn't be messing with it every time I indulge. So I'm done with it, there are better ways to get out of my head if I want to.

Anyway, like I said, I'll be around. Maybe I can give back to the forum by helping someone else in a tight spot. It's the least I can do. I really, truly SINCERELY appreciate it. Thank you all so much.

-Jack

 

[Jack0trade]

@ manboychef

Oh, hey. I just saw this post. Again, I'm amazed how cool you all are. I'm definitely going to start talking some of my issues out. I've been resisting being labeled "depressed" for too long. I don't think it's a dirty word, and I understand people really go through some hard times due to certain situations in their lives, a chemical imbalance or whatever. For me, it was my brother, mostly. My mom, also, but we're all going to have to deal with that some day and I want my brothers by my side. There's good news on that front, also, she got in to get some tests done and we won't know until Monday how bad they messed her up, but she's really looking and sounding a lot better. She's still rattlesnake mean, lol, but that's the way we like her. So right now I'm just really, really happy. but I just want to let you know that I really appreciate this and I'll be around. I have a cell phone but it's a cheap one, I buy minutes when I need them and in the case of an emergency I can call 911 or whatever. I was attached to a cell phone for years at a job I had where i was on call and grew to hate them. Every little thing the owner of the company wanted or needed, he got on the horn to me about. I loved the guy, but he was still my boss and it just got old fast. So I grew to kind of yearn for independence from those things. But I'll refill my minutes one day or maybe I'll just do what I normally do and just use someone else's phone. But we can chat here, too. Like I said, I won't become a stranger.

Thanks again. It really means a lot.

 

[RDP89]

Benzos are great for alcohol withdrawals, but NOT the other way around!! You will put yourself at an even higher risk for seizures if you do this. Sorry I don't have much advice on the script thing other than what's been said, trying to explain the situation, but I can understand your trepidation. Absolutely no access to black market diverted prescription benzos? Personally that's the route I would take, but I realize this may not be feasible. Wish I could be of more help, but I would definitely advise staying away from the alcohol. I totally understand the temptation, but it is absolutely not worth the seizure risk.

 

[Jack0trade]

Don't worry, I successfully resisted. And if I wanted to go that other route, the only thing I can get is xanax and it's too short acting. And I really don't like the guy who sells them.

I'm thinking maybe a good ole' fashioned weekend seizure might be a good thing for the statistics. Because the last "healthcare professional" I talked to swore up and down that benzo withdrawals pose no risk to my life. I don't know if people have died from withdrawals myself, just because you have a seizure doesn't mean you die...I don't think, I'm not familiar with seizures. So after I flop around like a fish and bite my tongue off or whatever, I'll dial 911 and give someone her name down the line. I've made the decision to try and ride this out until Monday. See, if I goi in tomorrow, it's actually more than a week early by one day. My pharmacy closes for the weekend so I can get scripts on day 29. Next Friday is day 29, making today 8 days early. And like I said, these people treat each day like a penalty. I don't want to lose my script, the most stressful part of this month that had me popping more than usual has been rectified and even if I die this weekend, I'll be at peace. And it won't be by my own hand. And I trust my cat knows that I won't begrudge her if she eats part of me, breaks a window and goes on her merry way. She was a stray I took in, anyway.

I might put out a big bowl of dry food, just in case. But I doubt it's going to be that bad. I'm sure seizures aren't pleasant, but I'm ready to take one for the team. If anything, it might help raise some awareness.

 

[manboychef]

Please just go to the hospital jack. You don't want to die. I don't want you to die. They are required to treat you.

I know the stigma of going to the hospital and being hooked on drugs. It is even worse for a junky. I had phlebitis in my left arm which was incredibly painful. I was honest with them about how I got it (shooting subutex), and the previously smiling doctor with whom I was having a light hearted conversation, turned into a cold clinician that didn't care how much pain I was in. He preceded to give me a condescending speech about how "my type" were always wasting hospital/doctor time that they could be treating someone that is sick. I told him "look, I'm a fucking human being, just like the next person. I came here for treatment, not a damn lecture, so either treat me or let me die from this. I don't need you to be all high and mighty with me because I already feel like a piece of shit for being addicted to drugs. I'm in intense pain. Either you are going to be a spiteful asshole and let me suffer, or you are going to make me comfortable which would be the compassionate thing to do. What's it going to be doc?" He let me suffer. I'm sure I have been branded at that hospital as an "unsavory character."

Your situation is different. You are taking them in the right ROA, and you are prescribed them. They should be understanding and sympathetic of your needs. I would go before the withdrawals become too bad for you to be functional (ie. drive yourself to the hospital/act in your own best interest). Bring your current pill bottle with you, so they know you have a script and know the prescribing doctor.

Good luck my friend. Keep me posted.