Advice and Opinions - Have I Fucked This Beyond Repair?
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spacejunk
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A lot of these responses seem to be focussing on whether or not she is being honest with you about his she feels.
Do we all really expect people to be completely honest in expressing their feelings?
I mean, what's worse - someone giving a reason that is not totally truthful, or someone being brutally honest (and unnecessarily hurtful)? I think we all tell little mistruths from time to time, in order to protect people's feelings,
From what you've described, it sounds like this girl had been through fair amount of shit. She's bringing baggage to the relationship, and perceives (right or wrong) that you are too.
I rather than wondering 'have I fucked this?' think a better question to ask is 'can we resolve this?' - in other words, it may not be your fault (or within your control) at all.
This is not to blame either of you - her or yourself.
Putting the blame on yourself is possibly misreading the whole situation, and being unreasonably hard on yourself for the way the situation seems to be going.
Maybe worth considering that even she may not fully understand how she feels in this situation - and a holiday alone may well have been a learning experience for her, and shown her that she's happy being single or she's not ready to be in a relationship.
I mean - without wishing to sound harsh - just because she likes you, doesn't mean she owes you anything.
Is there anything wrong with a person making this kind of (informed) decision? Rather than "convenient"...perhaps it simply worked out that way? These are complicated emotions - something even the most balanced and compassionate people can struggle to remain consistent with.
As confusing and painful as it might be, people are prone to uncertainty and ambivalence - especially around matters of commitment, and particularly if they have a history of depression.
She probably has no intention of being hurtful or confusing, but life and relationships are confusing sometimes.
I think it is important to look at situations like this from as many different perspectives as you can. Sure, she might be playing games and being deceptive...or perhaps she has conflicting emotions that are just as legitimate as yours.
Just because her responses don't make complete sense to you, doesn't mean they are any less valid; emotions aren't necessarily rational.
As others have askes - if things are this complicated at this point, as others have pointed out - is it really something you want to get more deeply emotionally involved in?
Obviously a question for your head and your heart (false dichotomy as that may be) - but that is all a part of emotional growth IMO.
The most important lesson I ever learned in these matters is not to settle for second best.
Easier said than done, but as much as you might fancy someone, you are hardly laying the foundations for a healthy relationship if you have to jump (or crawl under) this kind of hurdle.
Also, i believe every man/woman/etc on earth is "fucked in the head" in one way or another. I think you just need to seek out the right kind of crazy fucker for you.
Do we all really expect people to be completely honest in expressing their feelings?
I mean, what's worse - someone giving a reason that is not totally truthful, or someone being brutally honest (and unnecessarily hurtful)? I think we all tell little mistruths from time to time, in order to protect people's feelings,
From what you've described, it sounds like this girl had been through fair amount of shit. She's bringing baggage to the relationship, and perceives (right or wrong) that you are too.
I rather than wondering 'have I fucked this?' think a better question to ask is 'can we resolve this?' - in other words, it may not be your fault (or within your control) at all.
This is not to blame either of you - her or yourself.
Putting the blame on yourself is possibly misreading the whole situation, and being unreasonably hard on yourself for the way the situation seems to be going.
Maybe worth considering that even she may not fully understand how she feels in this situation - and a holiday alone may well have been a learning experience for her, and shown her that she's happy being single or she's not ready to be in a relationship.
I mean - without wishing to sound harsh - just because she likes you, doesn't mean she owes you anything.
Is there anything wrong with a person making this kind of (informed) decision? Rather than "convenient"...perhaps it simply worked out that way? These are complicated emotions - something even the most balanced and compassionate people can struggle to remain consistent with.
As confusing and painful as it might be, people are prone to uncertainty and ambivalence - especially around matters of commitment, and particularly if they have a history of depression.
She probably has no intention of being hurtful or confusing, but life and relationships are confusing sometimes.
I think it is important to look at situations like this from as many different perspectives as you can. Sure, she might be playing games and being deceptive...or perhaps she has conflicting emotions that are just as legitimate as yours.
Just because her responses don't make complete sense to you, doesn't mean they are any less valid; emotions aren't necessarily rational.
As others have askes - if things are this complicated at this point, as others have pointed out - is it really something you want to get more deeply emotionally involved in?
Obviously a question for your head and your heart (false dichotomy as that may be) - but that is all a part of emotional growth IMO.
The most important lesson I ever learned in these matters is not to settle for second best.
Easier said than done, but as much as you might fancy someone, you are hardly laying the foundations for a healthy relationship if you have to jump (or crawl under) this kind of hurdle.
Also, i believe every man/woman/etc on earth is "fucked in the head" in one way or another. I think you just need to seek out the right kind of crazy fucker for you.
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Bluelighter
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She knows what kind of person I am though.. gentle, caring, emotionally open (to the right people).. telling me a lie to protect my feelings hurts way more than just telling the truth. If she didn't want to be with me I could have accepted that and of course it would still hurt.. but what she's said is basically "I adore you", "care for you", "it hurts to say that (i can only be a friend atm)".. and then the final "I would have (been in a relationship)" before blocking me.. that all hurt way more because now I'm left with this unfinished situation of knowing she likes me, I like her, yet doesn't want to be with me over her perception of thinking I'm not over my ex.
If she just wanted to be alone I would understand that too. Or if she's scared. Or anything. This just feels like the worst 'conclusion' to the situation that could possibly happen.
If she just wanted to be alone I would understand that too. Or if she's scared. Or anything. This just feels like the worst 'conclusion' to the situation that could possibly happen.
Mysterie
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well if you already told her that you are over your ex, and she doesn't believe you. how can you have a gd relationship if she doesn't trust you?
she might also just be using it as an excuse, and has withdrawn from you, because she thinks you have hurt her. but i would bet if you wrote her a nice letter or something in a month, she would probably warm up to you again. idk
she might also just be using it as an excuse, and has withdrawn from you, because she thinks you have hurt her. but i would bet if you wrote her a nice letter or something in a month, she would probably warm up to you again. idk
spacejunk
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I know that mixed messages can really fuck with your head.
Unfortunately I think most of us have a tendency to send mixed messages from time to time.
Hurtful as this situation is, I think people who struggle with depression and what have you often feel really conflicted about getting too close to people (for various reasons).
It may not help you make sense of what is going on, but it could be a mistake to think she is deliberately hurting you.
Paradoxical as it may be, sometimes people hurt us by trying to protect our feelings.
You say that your ex really fucked with you in the way your relationship ended (which is completely understandable) but this girl may have similar hurtful experiences that were triggered by something you said.
It doesn't mean you've done the wrong thing - it's just an emotionally fraught part of human interaction.
Having a date talk about their former partner is probably a red flag for a lot of people, but how much it genuinely affects them is a matter of individual emotional response and each person's history.
Unfortunately I think most of us have a tendency to send mixed messages from time to time.
Hurtful as this situation is, I think people who struggle with depression and what have you often feel really conflicted about getting too close to people (for various reasons).
It may not help you make sense of what is going on, but it could be a mistake to think she is deliberately hurting you.
Paradoxical as it may be, sometimes people hurt us by trying to protect our feelings.
You say that your ex really fucked with you in the way your relationship ended (which is completely understandable) but this girl may have similar hurtful experiences that were triggered by something you said.
It doesn't mean you've done the wrong thing - it's just an emotionally fraught part of human interaction.
Having a date talk about their former partner is probably a red flag for a lot of people, but how much it genuinely affects them is a matter of individual emotional response and each person's history.
I've been through a lot of shit in my life, honestly. I also have friends who had been raped, abused in childhood, suffered depression, lost parents etc. etc. etc.
Not one of us would use this as an excuse to behave in this way towards someone we claimed to care about. And if we're confused and messed up in the head and can't deal with relationships we admit to it rather than dictate to the other person what THEY are feeling then making them feeling like our delusional, messed up negative thinking is somehow their fault. And many of us did get our asses into therapy to make sure we don't destroy relationships or hurt out partners.
And for the record: mentioning your ex is PERFECTLY NORMAL in a romantic relationship. I'm on my 4th LTR and my friends have been in several and I'VE NEVER HEARD THIS TO BE A RULE and neither would I ever accept this as a rule from a partner because it's batshit controlling crap. My ex-partners are an important part of my life and being with them made me the person I am today. We all come with some baggage and I can't for the life of me understand how her baggage (rape, depression) is more valid than yours (ex-girlfriend).
And this is what annoys me about the way she sold her story and the way you bought it, like her feelings are somehow more valid or important than yours. They are not.
Not one of us would use this as an excuse to behave in this way towards someone we claimed to care about. And if we're confused and messed up in the head and can't deal with relationships we admit to it rather than dictate to the other person what THEY are feeling then making them feeling like our delusional, messed up negative thinking is somehow their fault. And many of us did get our asses into therapy to make sure we don't destroy relationships or hurt out partners.
And for the record: mentioning your ex is PERFECTLY NORMAL in a romantic relationship. I'm on my 4th LTR and my friends have been in several and I'VE NEVER HEARD THIS TO BE A RULE and neither would I ever accept this as a rule from a partner because it's batshit controlling crap. My ex-partners are an important part of my life and being with them made me the person I am today. We all come with some baggage and I can't for the life of me understand how her baggage (rape, depression) is more valid than yours (ex-girlfriend).
And this is what annoys me about the way she sold her story and the way you bought it, like her feelings are somehow more valid or important than yours. They are not.
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Bluelighter
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Thanks lola 
I've been trying to analyze the whole thing from start to finish, in order to draw a line under it and move on, and I think I projected on to her what I wanted to see. She was affectionate and that's something I wanted in my life right now (as well as someone to just be with). I was always willing to hear about her story or her past.. if she had just let me tell the story of my ex and get it out the way then it wouldn't have been an issue. I mean it was a massive emotional event for me being cheated on, and she was the first person since that event who I could really open up to and help write a new positive chapter in my life.
I have a feeling she's moved on already and dating someone new. It's her loss though. I do hope she is able to work through her stuff in time.. it sucks seeing someone caught up with all that pain :/
I've been trying to analyze the whole thing from start to finish, in order to draw a line under it and move on, and I think I projected on to her what I wanted to see. She was affectionate and that's something I wanted in my life right now (as well as someone to just be with). I was always willing to hear about her story or her past.. if she had just let me tell the story of my ex and get it out the way then it wouldn't have been an issue. I mean it was a massive emotional event for me being cheated on, and she was the first person since that event who I could really open up to and help write a new positive chapter in my life.
I have a feeling she's moved on already and dating someone new. It's her loss though. I do hope she is able to work through her stuff in time.. it sucks seeing someone caught up with all that pain :/
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Bluelighter
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Well I left it 2 weeks.. texted saying "Hope you're well". Replied "I am. Thank you. Yourself?".
I then said I was good, sorry for being a bit emotional and probably needy about the whole thing, if there were other reasons you didn't want to be with me you should have said. No reply.
Left it a day. "We both like each other, you know I'm being honest (in regards to my ex etc), why push me away? Can't we talk this through?". No reply.
Left it another 2 weeks. "Hope you find your way through your troubles, I'm here if you want someone to talk to. I took interest in your history, but you never asked about mine. My anxiety is a symptom of existential depression. Take care x".
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What more can I do. She's obviously made her mind up, for whatever reason.. and it does hurt not knowing the truth. If she thought we wouldn't work, or she realized she didn't actually like me, I could have taken that blow. I'll always wonder whether that was the case, or if she was scared, becoming depressed again, or something else. And that sucks.
I might try making contact again next summer once I've finished my masters degree when I can afford to take more emotional turmoil, if only to just meet for coffee as friends. Unless she makes contact before then of course.
Any further advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated as always, and thanks for those who've helped me already
I then said I was good, sorry for being a bit emotional and probably needy about the whole thing, if there were other reasons you didn't want to be with me you should have said. No reply.
Left it a day. "We both like each other, you know I'm being honest (in regards to my ex etc), why push me away? Can't we talk this through?". No reply.
Left it another 2 weeks. "Hope you find your way through your troubles, I'm here if you want someone to talk to. I took interest in your history, but you never asked about mine. My anxiety is a symptom of existential depression. Take care x".
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What more can I do. She's obviously made her mind up, for whatever reason.. and it does hurt not knowing the truth. If she thought we wouldn't work, or she realized she didn't actually like me, I could have taken that blow. I'll always wonder whether that was the case, or if she was scared, becoming depressed again, or something else. And that sucks.
I might try making contact again next summer once I've finished my masters degree when I can afford to take more emotional turmoil, if only to just meet for coffee as friends. Unless she makes contact before then of course.
Any further advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated as always, and thanks for those who've helped me already
Mysterie
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i don't want to be insensitive. but, it seems like people who have been alone for a lot of their lives (friendship wise/relationship wise), will latch onto potential partners very deeply, even if there isn't a very established connection that has been formed. idk if i am reading you wrong. i personally have been through the same thing, i note a hint of reciprocation in my feelings, and i go all out with my emotions.
i can agree with your game plan though.
you should try and let go of any attachments to this girl though.. just from what i've read. time definitely helps, i am on friendly speaking terms with a girl i had an intense crush on, but it took many months, some dialogue with her about our relationship, and lots of personal work in order for me to take a few steps back to get some more perspective on the situation.
its possible that she sees you as someone she wants to be friends with.
i can see why it would hurt with her ignoring you and not giving you an honest explanation or anything. once i had that it was the sense of closure i was searching for.
i can agree with your game plan though.
you should try and let go of any attachments to this girl though.. just from what i've read. time definitely helps, i am on friendly speaking terms with a girl i had an intense crush on, but it took many months, some dialogue with her about our relationship, and lots of personal work in order for me to take a few steps back to get some more perspective on the situation.
its possible that she sees you as someone she wants to be friends with.
i can see why it would hurt with her ignoring you and not giving you an honest explanation or anything. once i had that it was the sense of closure i was searching for.
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Bluelighter
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No you're not entirely wrong Mysterie. In a way it's good it failed because it gives me a chance to reflect and grow, which I didn't do when I was younger (smoking, avoiding growth). On the other hand.. I'm conflicted because most people generally bore me and it seems difficult to find the few good gems out there, so I don't get the kind of emotional bonding I need as a human being, and I refuse to stoop down and play the average mans cultural pattern.. so I relish the few good connections I have. Life is boring.. study.. work.. it's all about the connections with other people that make living worthwhile. I just want to play and feel alive, you know?
It's not like we went on 2 dates. We met half a dozen to a dozen times, and got close. Even on the first night we spent together.. we had sex because she was that comfortable with me, and admitted she doesn't usually do that on a first date. There was a lot of affection and intimacy, and again she admitted it usually takes her a month or so before feeling that close to someone. We clicked really well. That's what I don't understand, and why it hurts a lot.
I know I need to let go for now.. but it's really hard. I mean I know she's not perfect and has her problems.. but it's just the not knowing what could have been, or what the truth is in her head. That really sucks.
It's not like we went on 2 dates. We met half a dozen to a dozen times, and got close. Even on the first night we spent together.. we had sex because she was that comfortable with me, and admitted she doesn't usually do that on a first date. There was a lot of affection and intimacy, and again she admitted it usually takes her a month or so before feeling that close to someone. We clicked really well. That's what I don't understand, and why it hurts a lot.
I know I need to let go for now.. but it's really hard. I mean I know she's not perfect and has her problems.. but it's just the not knowing what could have been, or what the truth is in her head. That really sucks.
Irishboston
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Definitely repairable but not worth fixing
malakaix
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In truth, you'll probably never completely let go.. if you felt you loved her, granted theirs a fine line between love and infatuation. I can tell by the last messages you sent her.. it reminded me of myself years ago with a particular girl.. it was obvious to everyone but me that it was done; but i kept pressing for an explanation in some hope of reconciling the relationship, unfortunately this was presented for what it really was.. an emotional dependency.. which is incredibly unattractive. She was saint for putting up with my messages for as long as she did.. eventually she stopped replying and i had to learn a hard lesson.
I still think of that girl even 3 years later..
It sounds cliche as fuck, but that's life. The more you learn to let go the less everything will bother you.. because you get your mind out of the past and into right now. For some reason i think your existential depression and your difficulty in letting go of this girl are tightly linked, i would explore that further.
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Bluelighter
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Yeh no doubts my existential depression is linked. I find modern life to be incredibly artificial and hollow, hence why cannabis was a crutch/escape for so long, why I relish sleep/dreaming, music etc. I also don't doubt 'emotional dependency' would be seen if I answered a questionnaire, but then is it? I mean is it wrong to desire emotional connection with someone, or something, to take away the pain of life, to give your life some meaning? The world is fucked and going nowhere.. I find great joy in creating a safe space for myself and another person to share in and just "be".. it's one of the few things that actually feels real to me, where the potential for magic hasn't been destroyed by the modern world. I don't doubt that I would love to have a kid or two some day just to allow them that same space, watch them grow etc. Watching my little brother grow up was great.
I won't say I loved her. I may have found out later on I didn't like some of her personality or something. It's just we got close very quickly, there was affection and connection, it made me feel good and gave me motivation to do other stuff in my life knowing that when I would see her next week we'd have that space to just be in. I clung on to my first relationship despite it being unhealthy and one sided because it afforded me the chance to show affection, and love.. that creating space thing.
But I don't know if it's really emotional dependency.. in both cases I never felt the need to check up on them, I trusted them to go and do other things with people, I could do things by myself and be content (relatively speaking). Like I'm reading this list and it just makes no sense..
*I feel good about myself when I am with or belong to someone
*I focus my attention on pleasing others
*Helping’ others fix their problems boosts my self esteem
What the hell is wrong with any of those? Like I read some of this emotional dependency stuff and it appears to me like you have to be some sort of concrete pillar of non-emotion to be "sane", that if you aren't selfish and in love with yourself then you're emotionally dependent. The fuck is that? We're supposed to be emotionally involved with family, friends, partners, no?
I won't say I loved her. I may have found out later on I didn't like some of her personality or something. It's just we got close very quickly, there was affection and connection, it made me feel good and gave me motivation to do other stuff in my life knowing that when I would see her next week we'd have that space to just be in. I clung on to my first relationship despite it being unhealthy and one sided because it afforded me the chance to show affection, and love.. that creating space thing.
But I don't know if it's really emotional dependency.. in both cases I never felt the need to check up on them, I trusted them to go and do other things with people, I could do things by myself and be content (relatively speaking). Like I'm reading this list and it just makes no sense..
*I feel good about myself when I am with or belong to someone
*I focus my attention on pleasing others
*Helping’ others fix their problems boosts my self esteem
What the hell is wrong with any of those? Like I read some of this emotional dependency stuff and it appears to me like you have to be some sort of concrete pillar of non-emotion to be "sane", that if you aren't selfish and in love with yourself then you're emotionally dependent. The fuck is that? We're supposed to be emotionally involved with family, friends, partners, no?
malakaix
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Im in total agreeance. (Im sure that's a word.. maybe im spelling it wrong)
But i would argue that it can't be the crutch upon which you depend; and i think thats the point been made behind emotional dependence. You can feel all of that but you should have other outlets that provide the same sense of emotional fulfilment, sometimes though i feel like it's a catch 22.. when i have someone like that in my life, they inspire and motivate me to pursue interests of mine that i otherwise find very difficult to do so on my own..
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Bluelighter
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Yeh exactly. But what is wrong with that though? Being with someone provides a natural neurochemical boost.. that's just biology, and who would want to let go of that kind of natural high, especially when it boosts the rest of your life (as any relationship should). For me personally I just don't get that much emotional enjoyment out of day to day living, which I think has a lot to do with it being the UK (not enough Sun).
I don't know, it seems like a really flimsy psychological definition to me. We don't exactly show enough emotion or affection in our culture as it is.. I think it's perfectly normal to want to hold on to something that gives you that, that makes you feel human and alive.
Nico.Keenan
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I wouldn't wait to long before contacting her, you dont know where she is in her head, for you its giving her space but to her this thing you had could be over. At this point I would just call her and ask her if shed be willing to start over, invite her to dinner or something out of the home. Tell her you don't want to lose her over a missunderstanding (maybe word it better than that). if she really cares about you then she will be propably willing to at least try
Nico.Keenan
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I was in a similar situation with my current gf and we've been together for 6 years now, you should try it and see what happens, life might suprize you
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Bluelighter
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I sent a txt about two weeks ago saying:
"Hope you find your way through your troubles, I'm here if you want someone to talk to. I took interest in your history, but you never asked about mine. My anxiety is a symptom of existential depression. Take care x".
What else can I do? I mean I would love to talk to her but I sent that message and I can't keep bugging her every 2 weeks or so.
"Hope you find your way through your troubles, I'm here if you want someone to talk to. I took interest in your history, but you never asked about mine. My anxiety is a symptom of existential depression. Take care x".
What else can I do? I mean I would love to talk to her but I sent that message and I can't keep bugging her every 2 weeks or so.
Nico.Keenan
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Well, hopefully she will realize that you care about her at least, know that you did what you could, and hope that she responds. At this point your right there may not be much you can do, it may not be the most helpfull thing in the world to say but its possible she just isn't stable enough to handle a relationship rightt now, especially if she isn't sure of how you feal.
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I just don't know what's going through her head, whether she's pushed me away because of her past with depression, or because she realized she wasn't that interested in me for whatever reason. Up until her holiday by herself it was all positive though, that's what I don't understand. And the final message before she blocked me where she said "I would have" in response to me saying I was about to ask her if she wanted to be exclusive.
That last message before blocking me.. is she cold and doesn't really understand the affect her words/actions have, or was it genuine and she's suffering through something at the moment? I don't know. I'm hoping she's depressed or something at the moment (not in that way), and when she comes back to baseline again she'll think back and see that actually I was genuinely interested in her. I mean come on, flowers to the work place when she was feeling shit? Traveling with her halfway home across London just to keep her company? The physical affection? It was obvious.