Staff Feedback Admins, "Mods" - This is ridiculous! Stop closing helpful and needed threads plz!

Drench

Bluelighter
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Mar 3, 2009
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Admins, "Mods" - This is ridiculous! Stop closing helpful and needed threads plz!

Hi, I am getting increasingly frustrated by the amount of helpful, informative threads that are being closed by 'mods' :|

I've been doing research on some rare and obscure chemicals recently, I have noticed that 80% of threads which I find that are helpful have been closed by the power-mad mods. Usually because the mods have decided "this is going no where/I don't like the OP" :\

They were not sourcing or doing anything else against the rules, apart from apparently "not being intelligent and informative enough" which is utter BS, not everyone has the supreme intelligence of the "mods" you know ;)

See this post, it came from a thread about a rare chemical that is mainly unknown and has very little info on it -

Argh. You know, this place used to actually be full of helpful people and wasn't the elitist society that it has become. I came here looking for knowledge on a completely new substance and nobody is being helpful at all. For a harm reduction site, telling people "just don't take it" is not an acceptable answer.

I wasn't planning on starting with 10, I said I suspect that's where it starts...

Whatever. Maybe someone in PD has tried it. At least they aren't nasty and curt in their responses if they don't know.

I've copied and pasted this just in case I get reported because I didn't attack anyone, I am just frustrated with how elitist ADD has gotten.

Its a shame that things have gone so far south from when I first became a Bluelighter in the happy year of 2004. Seriously. I wish things would go back to being chill like they were. All that's happening is people are going to other boards. Even some of the mods.

Now don't get me wrong, there are some excellent mods here such as Captain.Heroin, amongst others %)

I think either ALL mods need to be formally told to STOP closing these important threads, or simply "de-mod" them if they are seen as abusing their power and closing too many threads.

I would be very interested to hear what fellow Green/Bluelighters have to say about this, as well as mods, and of course the Admin(s).

Cheers, Drench

P.S. If any mods/admins read this can you fix the typo in the title and delete this bit of text please (Adminds > Admins)
 
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ADD has really strict rules, and has certain type of discussions that are frowned upon. I don't know exactly what the issue is, but anecdotal evidence of someone's experience on a certain drug isn't what ADD is for, there are other forums where this sort of information can fit. Also speculation on dosages for drugs with little to no scientific information on them can cause more harm than good, especially in forums where greenlighters or even bluelighters might take any information gathered in the ADD sub forum as fact (which people do, do because hey, they don't know any better, this is where the smart kids are supposed to play right?). There is also a big issue with the RC market and ADD. Sadly the RC market has helped create a less friendly environment where theoretical speculation causes more harm to the community than good. From issues with vendors advertising new substances, to substance on paper being discussed in theory that is best left out of the public reach becoming available, the rules/mods have to decide what is best for the community as these issues have caused huge problems.


Now maybe, the mods can move the threads to the right forum, but if the thread has been long inactive, there isn't much point to moving it to another forum as it is just clogging up the forums. Maybe you were asking for information that if needed to be asked about, you really shouldn't be yourself involved in these substance. The more advanced members who play with some of the obscure drugs, are not only putting themselves at risk, they are potentially putting others at risked if advertised, and they really should be able to figure out whether or not they should give up the potential exploration based on the research they should have done. Its not supposed to be an insult, but if you are playing with substances that don't bring up much information on BL, you best bet that you are one of the few to be ingesting it and you will not get much information from ADD. If you can't figure out how to start your exploration, then for the sake of yourself and others, don't risk consuming the substance.

Like I said, I don't know what the issue was, but just realize the ADD sub forum is strict and for good reason. To post experiences we have Trip reports, Psychedelic Drugs, Other drugs. For anecdotal evidence we have Psychedelic drugs and Other Drugs. For "scientific"/academic discussion we have ADD. Also realize that the mods in ADD deal with alot BS in their forums. Even if its from greenlighters who can't find their way around, or find the right forum to ask a question, it builds up everyday. They are attempting to clean up ADD to make it more in the shining glory that it once was, and it takes some decisions that people are going to disagree with, as well as the help of the current members to keep the discussion at an intellectual level acceptable for that sub-forum. I really recommend you trying PD or OD if you want a more relaxed and friendly environment (not saying ADD isn't friendly), as these forums exist to answer the questions that are not at such a high academic level. They also get more traffic which helps for getting the info you need.
 
^ There really isn't any excuse for the number of threads that are being closed though. It has been too high for awhile now. I think a new rule should be implemented: "If a thread is in a grey area, not immediately needing to be closed, it should remain open"
 
Now don't get me wrong, there are some excellent mods here such as Captain.Heroin, amongst others %)

As much as I am an excellent person and everything, I haven't been a moderator in a long time.

That aside, I really appreciate your kind words Drench. :)
 
The criteria for threads is contained in the BLUA, and in the forum guidelines. The thread from which the above excerpt was taken clearly did not fit with Advanced Drug Discussion guidelines.

If you are aware of a thread being improperly closed, please bring it to our attention immediately, via PM.
 
For the purposes of full disclosure: I tend to take an approach where I'd leave most threads open and let people discuss what they want, when they want. However, I don't have the responsibility of 'curating' some of Bluelight's busiest forums like the mods do. I don't have the concerns of trying to balance original content with repetitious question threads, nor maintaining the integrity of a forum's content against it's defined role, nor interpreting the difference between speculation and information. And so, given that lack of day-to-day responsibility, it would be inappropriate of me to force my laissez-faire perspective on those that do.

However, if ADD is the forum you're referring to (based on your quoted excerpt), then I should say that ADD has never been what I'd call a 'relaxed' forum.

It has high standards for good reason.

If you think those standards are being unfairly or unequally applied in this - or any other - forum on the board, you are always welcome to cite examples of this behaviour - preferably in this thread if you intend to do so en masse.

As it stands, without any real citation, it's difficult to see understand the context of the problem without interpreting this as an element of nostalgia about how things were better in yesteryear (which, they weren't... people were still bitching about elitism, only they were doing it about PD).
 
Thank you all for your superb replies, it has made things clearer to me. I understand that it's a bit stricter in ADD, it's for a good reason and that's fine. I wasn't referring to ADD in particular though.

If you think twice before you close a thread, try thinking "hmm, will this thread be helpful to anyone at all whatsoever?" If the answer is yes, leave the thread open :) You can always move the thread to a more tolerant section of the forums if necessary.

Captain.Heroin, big it up my brother, you got maximum restepa from me bruv! ;)
 
If you'd like to bring up a few examples showing exactualy you are talking about and where, we'd be able to give better responses for your concern.

note for the paragraphs below - Just some additional food for thought with own personal experience when moderating PD, where I know people have complained time from time about to much moderation within PD particularly.

No matter where or why some threads were closed that upset you, realize that the mods are volunteers and can't spend all day devoted to moderating BL. Sometimes quick decisions will be made that upset people, but if the other mods don't disagree enough to address the moderation by consulting them and reopening the threads it may be that the decision wasn't baseless. I know when I was mod for PD, I was very picky with how others were responding to questions asked. Even if they may have been typing true information, the way the information was expressed could have been very negative. I felt that in PD, users may come on the site tripping (bad experiences, commenting on the effects of the drug while still under the influence, etc.) and in a vulnerable state, so even though what was type maybe true, how it was typed could have a nasty effect on the user who sees it/was being responded to. Other mods may not look for the same things I did in PD and in other forums, nor would I necessarily worry about this in say Other Drugs sub-forum. People are not as often in such state where even little things said on bluelight in other sub-forums than PD could drastically effect someone so negatively as to help push someone into a bad experience/"bad trip", or into a period of negative thought loops, compared to PD. Some people may not have felt some of what I did was justified enough to take action, but they were not necessarily looking at it from the mods or other posters point of view. I felt PD should be a very friendly and polite environment where the way someone posts, not just what they post should be taken very seriously. There are other sub-forums to act like a dick, or express how a question is so stupid/answer is so obvious in a condescending manner (the lounge for example).

In PD we also have a good percentage of the traffic for the whole forum, where it can get so cluttered and messy that closing threads that have had the OPs question answered with out really any other potential things to add, moving threads to a big and dandy thread (mega thread) where certain types of posts are all together, closing threads with a link to a thread/threads answering the question (especially with very frequently asked/addressed questions), closing or heavily moderating and watching certain threads that are not of a harm reductive type, etc., is the right thing to do. Threads will also sometimes have a finer line that if crossed will result in the thread becoming closed or posts being unapproved. Some threads may start out with out the mods viewing them very harshly, but if someone say, keeps having their posts moderated (unapproved or editing) then posting the same things after that were moderated previously, the mods wont be as lenient when some one else breaks a rule or they break another rule. Also its generally accepted by members and mods that threads with no recent posts that are particularly not say mega type threads be brought back to life because they clog up the sub-forums which is really annoying ones that have a high thread/post creation rate (you'll see often someone will post something responding to post years ago [say 5 years ago] that doesn't lead to a beneficial discussion or have anything useful in it. The thread will be closed to prevent others from doing so as well, because they will often assume some posts are not really old/or not know the person responding to is not around anymore). I know that it was basically a unspoken "rule" for the mods at least in PD to always comment at the end of the thread being closed as to why it was closed/what rule was broken, as to help minimize people from misunderstanding/assuming as to why (sometimes non-mods can't see the posts or part of posts, so don't realize it wasn't because of having a power trip). I'm not sure if they still hold this to be true, as I haven't been posting in there for a little bit (taking a long break from psychedelics).

Different sub-forums have different guidelines written down or generally accepted by those running the sub-forum and those using it, which I know can confuse people or upset them when they see their posts or threads were moderated in some way (especially if a style of post is accepted in another forum). Also just like how I look for particular things when I moderated for PD, every mod will have their own idea of how to interpret the rules and enforce them in the best way. You'll see the way forums are moderated change when new moderates come to being almost every time. New mods may take a little time to become the ideal moderators due to them having to learn the ropes and get a feel for what is right or wrong, so sometimes everyone needs to be patient, or understanding when you might disagree with a action they choose.

The best way to address an action that you disagree with that a mod takes (like for the threads you felt were very informative for you that were closed) is the PM them soon after you see it happens. They can give you a reason why, and can even undo some of the actions they did if they see where you may be valid. I know especially in PD and OD the mods are very friendly people (post in the social threads and you'll really see how nice they are), and will be happy to address any of your concerns. You'll probably get farther in producing results or understanding why that way, then even posting a thread here in the support sub-forum (not saying you shouldn't post this thread).

Hope any of this helps you potentially understand or give you some ideas of why maybe some of the things you saw take place happen.
 
If you think twice before you close a thread, try thinking "hmm, will this thread be helpful to anyone at all whatsoever?" If the answer is yes, leave the thread open :) You can always move the thread to a more tolerant section of the forums if necessary.

This is how I approach threads, and I encourage other moderators to do that same. Basically put yourself in the position of the OP and decide if they would benefit from the thread staying open or not, and make the decision partially based on that.
 
I would be very interested to hear what fellow Green/Bluelighters have to say about this, as well as mods, and of course the Admin(s).
to add to what the other have said, if you feel a thread has been closed without good reason, you can always report it and ask the staff to consider reopening it. you've never reported a post so, on paper, we're not aware of the 'problem'.

you can also pm the forum staff in question and ask them to reopen the thread. have you ever done this? what did they say?

regards

alasdair
 
People don't always report threads because of the all knowing mod people (not a shot at any mod in this thread). What makes me laugh more is when mods who openly display there pics, occupation etc and then decide to pop there head into another part of a forum and give a little smartass response to people trying to overcome certain things and think they cant get away with their witty remarks. I've seen topics that have 90 people viewing them and when a non area mod posts it drops to half and most people probably roll there eyes and think ok go back to your great job and your high horse ways and dream of the days when the upstairs section closed at 3am and you could come downstairs and mingle with the rest ;) Absolute power corrupts absolutely or some shit I never finished dat dere schoolz or wentz to dental school but I'm sure as hell gonna cut my suns foreskin off cus I'm like da dad and my rule is final :)

[INSERT INFRACTION 1]

Actually I could care less about giving you an infraction. Other people reading your post will be punishment enough for you.

On a more serious note, about half of the threads that members ask to be reopened are in fact reopened. Mods don't close threads just for the sake of doing so. As for mods throwing their weight around in other forums, as said before we need proof so please provide some.
 
This is how I approach threads, and I encourage other moderators to do that same. Basically put yourself in the position of the OP and decide if they would benefit from the thread staying open or not, and make the decision partially based on that.

Hi, I was the author of a thread you closed in homeless threads----you told me to pm you, but being a greenlighter---pm difficult. Anyway, would rather not get in touch with you here, but since I apparently acted inappropriately, and know no other way to contact, would like to ask that maybe you move my closed-down thread to the new member introductions, adoption area, snipping the part about where I live, because I don't know my way around this site and would like someone to show me around? thanks.
 
^i would suggest posting in the NMI adoption thread. that thread is specifically designed for new members to meet up with existing members. the existing members can help you find your way around the board and chat with you :)
 
^i would suggest posting in the NMI adoption thread. that thread is specifically designed for new members to meet up with existing members. the existing members can help you find your way around the board and chat with you :)

Thanks helpful Cookie I have done so. Would have sent you a PM To thank you except I am still bound by the only three hours rule <3
 
As much as I am an excellent person and everything
Debatable. ;-p

---

nobutforserious if you find yourself encumbered in reducing harm because the conversations in your space are being 'handicapped', perhaps you should try taking the moderators actions not as an exercise of ego, but as a recognition of the very real struggles communities like this face.

HR is tantamount of course, and that is a clearly dynamic task that requires a respect for all potential guests of the site. This requires a level of level-headed professionalism that cannot be maintained without a well-indexed, unobfuscated archive of information accessible to all. This becomes difficult, however, when conversations are fragmented by the inevitable <1-3pg life cycles that are not conducive to pulling in answers from the larges sample size nor do they reach the most number of people who have that question. More likely than not, in fact, they wont be able to find it.

As such SEO is reduced and the centrality of the knowledge is diminished in the shuffle of digesting the information. So what's the solution? Do your best to become comfortable with the Big and Dandy idea and see it not as a black hole of conversation but as a piece of the HR pie that has legs far beyond the first or second or third page of their respective forums not to mention they are highly-rich in keywords that reach infinitely more end users with various vernaculars.

And while we are active members of the community, think of the predictably impatient, overwhelmed mass of nonmembers who need real info like you and I, but haven't the desire to sift through threads which don't get straight to the point. THe difference between knowing and not makes all the difference. You want to talk about a new compound? Set up a megathread and go to town; no one will stop you if you approach the task with objecticity.

As frustrating as it might seem at times, just try and keep in mind the greater good and the necessary protections our community must take to guarantee a future with BL. As a fringe legal community there is only so much room for error. Can't be too careful either. Less riff raff is the best riff raff.
 
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Oh word? Anything else you'd like to add with that little gem? The non sequitor into the passive aggressive judgment zone was real smooth. Why you stop there though? It almost sounded like you had something meaningful to bring to the conversation.

good luck with that flow btw, really suits your character teetee.

untill next time friend.
 
And while we are active members of the community, think of the predictably impatient, overwhelmed mass of nonmembers who need real info like you and I, but haven't the desire to sift through threads which don't get straight to the point. THe difference between knowing and not makes all the difference. You want to talk about a new compound? Set up a megathread and go to town; no one will stop you if you approach the task with objecticity.

As frustrating as it might seem at times, just try and keep in mind the greater good and the necessary protections our community must take to guarantee a future with BL. As a fringe legal community there is only so much room for error. Can't be too careful either. Less riff raff is the best riff raff.

I like this post. As a moderator, I'd just like to say that I never get any thrill out of closing someone's thread, handing out infractions or warnings etc... I'm not into playing that game. I rarely run into problems with people who's threads I've closed, but if I do, these individuals often strike me as being narcassistic & ignorant, believing that their thread deserved to stay open simply because it was created by them, regardless of whether it fits the posting standards or violates the BLUA.

Many of us here on BL are not conformists IRL, nor are we on BL. However, we really do need to have these rules, and to enforce them in order to keep the site from crumbling into chaos. Yes, I have seen some threads that were closed that I thought shouldn't have been, but the vast majority of closed threads were handled appropriately IMO. I agree that certain, rare compounds should be discussed here, but if you make a thread asking something along the lines of: "Hey, I've recently obtained two vials of etorphine, 1mg/mL. What's a good dose to start on, how do I measure it out accurately, and what can I do to prevent an overdose?"

Than you can't expect it to stay open, as this drug is so potent, and it's recreational (and otherwise) use in humans is so minimal, that any advice would be speculative, which could lead to well meaning but faulty information resulting quite easily in an overdose. Basically, any post that is asking questions about a rare drug with almost no information available is going to result in a bunch of well meaning guesses which can result in harm, and therefore, does not promote HR, which is our main purpose on Bluelight.
 
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