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ADHD Effexor and Depression

streetsurfer

streetsurfer

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
623
Currently I am on Effexor xr 75mg which has been a godsend for the depression and social phobia that was ruining my life. I am also pleased to find out that I can roll and speed on effexor to a far larger degree than I could on citalopram which pretty much nulified the effect. Does this mean that effexor has less of an affinity for the relevent receptors than MDMA/amphetamines? In any case, although amphetamines/mdma work, they are only give me a lift in mood, not a full on roll or buzz like they used to

Unfortunetly the effexor hasn't helped with the ADHD much and I was wondering if dexamphetamine would work in conjunction with effexor if not for it's stimulant qualities then maybe for purely concentration alone.

I am of the theory that much of my neurosis comes from me living in my head and not being able to follow a thought out to its rational conclusion and that treating the neuological problem may just cure the psychiatric one at the same time?

I don't have high hopes of effexor being a lasting solution for me as I have built up tolerence to AD's in the past that have worked well and I really really want to be able to roll still so I am hopeing dexamphetamine may just do the job better/as well as effexor.
Anyway, there it is
 
Effexor is interesting in that at low doses it works on norepinephrine regulation and on high doses norepinephrine and serotonin regulation; it probably would kill your buzz a lot more if you were on 225 mg a day.

I don't know about dexedrine and effexor, but my guess is that they can be used concurrently.
 
Actually, I believe the opposite is true--venlafaxine (Effexor) is an SSRI up until a certain dosage threshold, in which case its affinity for the NET starts to kick in. Perhaps your MDMA pleasure was not ablated by venlafaxine because (a) you are on a low dose and (b) venlafaxine has a much lower Ki for the SERT protein than (S)-citalopram. And, yes, one can take venlafaxine and (d)-amphetamine for ADD. I take 150 mg of Effexor XR, 450 mg of bupropion XL and 30 mg of dextroamphetamine SR every day.
 
Er, yeah, my bad, that is backwards. The lower SERT affinity and dose is probably why, as stated.
 
Hey Riemann Zeta, just curious why you take Effexor XR and bupropion XL concurrently? Do you find you get a superior AD effect from this combo? What about the mood elivating effects of the dexamphetamine? Do you notice any? How effective has this been for your Add asuming you do have it?
 
I was started on a simple 5-HT reuptake inhibitor (sertraline), which was titrated up to the max 200 mg qD. It was not very effective overall in controlling depressive symptoms and mood lability, so bupropion was added until I was on 450 mg of bupropion and 100 mg of sertraline. Concurrently, I was also taking methylphenidate (10 mg TID) for ADD. I first switched to venlafaxine because the sertraline was not really helping me all that much. Then I switched from methylphenidate to d-amphetamine SR because the peripheral effects of methylphenidate (sweating, BP++, cardiac effects, etc...) were growing more annoying and having to take methylphenidate 3 times a day was annoying by itself (not to mention the fact that it only lasted an hour, then I started to crash with severe drowsiness, etc...). I wanted something that was "extended-release" and was metabolized a little slower than methylphenidate. Also, due to the PNS side-effects of methylphenidate, I did not want the cardiotoxic effects of l-amphetamine, thus, Adderall XR was not an option.

In general, I think that bupropion added to a serotonergic antidepressant is the best combo for severe depression. In addition, I do get a mood-boosting effect from d-amphetamine, albeit not a large effect. The effect is almost more calming than stimulating. I would say that d-amphetamine has been more helpful with ADD than methylphenidate, as it doesn't have the rollercoaster-like pharmacokinetic profile.
 
How do you think your brain is going to be coping at 60 years of age? Will you fuck up all your neurochemistry by longterm SSRI/amphetamine useage in your opinion?

(I am sure I could have worded this more elequantly but it is 5:23am ha)
 
Riemann Zeta said:
I wanted something that was "extended-release" and was metabolized a little slower than methylphenidate. Also, due to the PNS side-effects of methylphenidate, I did not want the cardiotoxic effects of l-amphetamine, thus, Adderall XR was not an option.

Click to expand...

Hey... when you say cardio toxic effects of adderalll... lke i know thatamphetamines are not good on your heart, obviously. but didnt you say you were on dextro-amphetamine now?

Is dextro-amphetamine less cadio-toxic than adderall?

If so, why?
 
All strongly sympathomimetic drugs are 'cardiotoxic'. Meth, d or l-amphetamine, cocaine...
 
Yes, d-amphetamine, or (S)-amphetamine if we are being anal, is thought to be less cardiotoxic than l-amphetamine (R-amphetamine).

Evidence? Well, alas, it is sketchier than I remembered it to be. Andrews, et al (2005) just published some interesting findings on the NE/DA selectivity ratios of (+/-)-ephedrine (18.6) > phentermine (6.7) > (S)-amphetamine (3.5). It is known that (R)-amphetamine behaves a lot like (-)-ephedrine in behavioral and physiological assays (i.e. it produces a physical sympathomimetic "rush" with little to no CNS stimulation), however, that is a weak argument at best. I'll keep searching, I swear I have an article that demonstrated direct B-adrenoreceptor agonism by levoamphetamine but not dextroamphetamine.

(-)-cocaine is the most cardiotoxic of all psychostimulants, as it possesses direct Na+ blocking effects and has been known to cause spontaneous cardiac death in susceptible individuals. Methylphenidate is supposed to be "cleaner" and easier on the heart than amphetamine, but I felt more cardiac palpitations with methylphenidate than with (d)-amphetamine. I also have fewer sympathomimetic side-effects with (d)-amphetamine than with the racemic mix (well, Adderall isn't quite racemic, but you get the gist).

One would think that (d)-methamphetamine would be the least cardiotoxic of all of the amphetamines, but it has a pretty intense pressor effect due to its propensity to release 5-HT. Not to mention the increased neurotoxicity...

If you just want to stay awake, modafinil is the least PNS stimulating "stimulant" out there.
 
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You didn't answer my question Riemann Zeta, what in your opinion will be the long term effect of using this combination of drugs? And do you think it will remain effective in the years to come or will you have to be constantly changing your regime to overcome tolerence?

Just wondering if I should expect to be looking for a new AD combo for myself in not too long or hopefully that this will work a while for me.
Thanks
 

One would think that (d)-methamphetamine would be the least cardiotoxic of all of the amphetamines, but it has a pretty intense pressor effect due to its propensity to release 5-HT. Not to mention the increased neurotoxicity...

If you just want to stay awake, modafinil is the least PNS stimulating "stimulant" out there. [/B]
Click to expand...


Hmmm... I would think methamphetamine would be the most cardiotoxic of all the amphetamines.... Why would one think it was the least?

How does phentermine rank in cardiotoxicity in relation to the other amphetamines? Have you ever done it? And if you did, what'd you think of the euphoria? I have done it a few times and it seemed mainly CNS stimulating with little euphoria, almost panicky. Granted I've always been on Adderall when i've taken it, so my assessment could be off.

What is a pressor effect?

What is modafinil, what is its brand name, what it is rxed for, expound on it please
 
As for my long-term neural health, I cannot really speculate at this point--while amphetamines have been on the market for years, the ability to observe their mechanism of action at the molecular level (in both acute and chronic dosing) is an extremely recent development. Neuropsychologically, I will agree that high-dose chronic amphetamine users (especially methamphetamine users) do experience sequelae, such as working memory disruptions. The long-term consequences of chronic but low-dose amphetamine, however, appear to be different than those of high-dose use. Given the number of depressive and so-called "hypomanic" episodes I have had, I doubt I will ever live completely free of psychiatric medication. However, as a pharmacologist, I am rather accepting of the "chemical lifestyle" and, as such, am both an early adopter and willing to experiment on myself (within certain reasonable boundaries, of course). Will this attitude come back to bite me in the ass 25 years down the line? Right now, it is impossible to say. I may end up switching medications if I experience new issues, or if this combo looses its effectiveness. The first switch I would make is venlafaxine to duloxetine.

A priori, one might expect d-methamphetamine to have the least cardiotoxicity because of its relatively high CNS/PNS effect ratio--that is, its effects are mainly central, rather than peripheral. However, it seems to exert a specific paradoxical pressor (hypertensive, vasoconstrictive) action, at least in naive subjects. Curiously, one would expect d-threo-methylphenidate (the active stereoisomer of Ritalin) to have little cardiac impact, but it too exhibits a potent pressor effect.

I believe phentermine (alpha-methyl-amphetamine or alpha-dimethyl-phenethylamine) would be similar to (R)-amphetamine (levoamphetamine) in terms of effect, as it has a greater propensity to release noradrenaline than dopamine and has a higher NA/DA release ratio than (S)-amphetamine.

To answer the last question, modafinil is branded as Provigil. It is a weak psychomotor stimulant indicated for narcolepsy, maintenance of wakefulness during 24+ hr shifts and excessive daytime sleepiness. Unlike amphetamine, it has little effect on the catecholamine neurotransmitter systems and appears to act directly at the brainstem reticular activating system.
 
That is really debatable. Most individuals would say no. The first time I tried modafinil, however, I had a fantastic time--truly one of the best chemical experiences I have had in my entire life. It acted similarly to a classical (S)-amphetaminergic stimulant--I had energy, vigor and zest of life (for about 8 hours). To be honest, it felt better than methylphenidate that first time. However, tolerance to this "euphoric" effect quickly kicked in, perhaps by the third time I took the compound (which was maybe 3 weeks later, so I didn't even take it every day). Now, all it does is raise my alertness level if I haven't slept for a while, which is what is supposed to do.
 
Mental illness

If anyone wants to get rid of their mental illness for the rest of life, whether it be ADHD, depression, bi-polar, schitzophenia, ect, then go to this site and follow this diet, and most of your mental illness will go away:

www.13.waisays.com

it works.
 
I tend to put a little more faith into pharmaceutical products than the latest fad diet of the week. Granted, neither might work for an individual, but I think I'll stick with the one that works for me.
 
I am on 75mg of effexor and 30mg of D-amp. The combo doesnt have any negative effects for me. Ive heard that effexor can reduce the effects of D-amp, but i have never taken D-amp without effexor so wouldnt know.
 
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