Misc Addiction, detox, recovery, and psychedelics discussion.

[spookyaction]

I'm making this thread because I'd found myself repeating some of the same things in different threads and during my short time here, haven't seen anything similar-ish to my personal experience, which was... unconventional... I figured I'd put it in a thread and see what other people thought, and see what worked for other people, particularly anything outside of the "norms."

My experience:
I spent most of my 20's and a little of my 30's as an active drug addict. Mostly to heroin then fentanyl, but also coke/crack, meth, and pretty much whatever I could get my hands on when I had the money. There were periods throughout where I would get sober with the aid of 12-step programs, but after varying amounts of time I'd invariably end up relapsing. The longest I ever made it was about 18 months clean and sober from everything.

Let me start by saying that 12-step programs worked, and they worked well. I've never seen it not work for anybody who was diligent in their following of the program, which I tended to slack on given enough time. So my relapses has nothing to do with the efficacy of AA/NA. If you are an addict and trying to quit, PLEASE give it a fair chance. Don't let my relapses affect your perception of them. Anyway, after that 18 months, I relapsed. First with cannabis and alcohol for a couple months, then with crack and fentanyl again. Six months of misery and another legal case later, I detoxed myself with DXM on my couch, and checked myself into a treatment center and started doing my steps again. Long story short, I was struggling with thoughts of relapse when I had the good fortune to come across some 1P-LSD. I'm a big fan of the tryptamines, but in my area they aren't easy to find. Following the steps properly meant I never really looked for when I could afford it financially and after I relapsed all of my income belonged to opiates and other drugs.

What happened to me is nothing short of a miracle. I had read that psychedelics had had some promising effects on addiction, with ibogaine seeming to be at the forefront, but it was all largely theoretical to me. I didn't disbelieve it, but I was skeptical to say the least. Usually when something sounds too good to be true, it is. Since I was already heading towards a relapse, I figured I'd give psychedelics a shot, it wasn't likely to do me more harm than going back to the drugs I was sure would ruin my life. It turned out to be the best decision I could have made. It's hard to even describe exactly the effect it had. It's like I lost the last piece to a puzzle I was trying to put together and I finally found it and snapped it onto place. The depression symptoms I had were gone immediately and haven't come back since and my brain was "rewired". Intellectually I remember doing the drugs that ruined my life, but it they no longer connect to the part of my brain that was responsible for my "euphoric recall." I feel exactly like I did BEFORE I ever tried hard drugs. Back when I used to be able to take it or leave it. I have even been successfully been using alcohol and cannabis in moderation, with no desire or temptation to go back to "the hard stuff."

I'm coming up on 2 years "sober" now, and been drinking and smoking cannabis still only very occasionally and for nearly a year. I don't know if the "rewiring" would apply to opiates-and-friends, since at one time I could use them recreationally, but the desire to find out isn't there, and even if it was, I'd not squander my second chance at life.

That is my experience, I'm curious to hear any of yours. Though DXM isn't a tryptamine, it's still hallucinogenic in nature, and I've never had anything work as well as that did for opiate detox; not even an actual detox center, lol. Surely somebody here has tried that as well? If you've tried it yourself, did it work for you? Has anybody else attempted to use psychedelics to combat their addiction? If so, which substance(s)? Did it work? If so, for how long? Though the results haven't lessened for me, I know it may not be permanent. Did you try something different that worked? Even if little or none of this applies to you, I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this matter.

 

[martincertain]

Hi there,

I've just read your post and agree with most of what you've said. I was hoping that there would be more responses but happy to chuck in my two cents! I've been in active addiction for around 7-8 years now (mostly heroin but some other stuff mixed in the works too). I've been on and off subutex scripts, tried the 12 steps many times - again, I agree with you here that it does work for many people who have the ability to follow the steps and do the work. For me it seemed like a fairly obvious process for change and things that I was doing in my regular life anyway so I wasn't able to fully accept it as a tool for my personal recovery. Whilst I still go to meetings here and there and enjoy meeting fellow addicts there, I've never felt like I could fully engage with it - something that may seem naive but nonetheless, addiction is a complicated thing and definitely not the same for everyone.

I've only been clean for 3 months now so don't want to tempt fate by saying that i'm over my addiction - of course i'm not, but I've been microdosing LSD for the past 6 months and have experienced a similar change to what you have described above. I've felt a huge difference in the way that I think about drugs and the way that my brain deals with cravings (almost no cravings). It's like the addiction has just melted away - quite incredible really and definitely a 'too good to be true' situation but it's very different to any other recovery attempts that I've ever had and also the longest time I've had clean for many years. I'm keen to see how I get on this year - I'm still drinking a fair bit and i'd like to cut down on that but it's certainly not at a worrying level (YET, some may say!)

I hope there will be more people to add to this thread as it really seems like a legitimate tool for recovery from my experience and also helps get to the root of the problems that may cause/prolong addiction in the first place.

M

 

[cowboycurtis]

I posted a thread about this and honestly it didn’t get many replies, but I’ve heard this question about psychedelics and personal experiences with it all over this site. I personally don’t think it’s really the answer, but for some it might be a tool to help get them there. I tried microdosing on mushrooms for a little bit recently but I always found myself wanting more, to actually be tripping. It felt like a tease. I’m sure I didn’t do it long enough though. I still haven’t eaten this eighth I got sitting next to me. I’m a bit hesitant. It’s been a few years since I did any long-lasting psychedelics. I feel like, and this has been repeated many times, a trip would give my brain a hard reset. Last time I did mushrooms I was fresh out of long-term rehab and it didn’t stop me from relapsing shortly thereafter. So I guess you get out what you put in. Life still goes on. The world still spins.

 

[spookyaction]

Unfortunately psychedelics are, to some degree, wildcards in their effect on individuals. Even the much-praised ibogaine is not 100% effective. The human will, conscious or subconscious, is a powerful thing. There are any number of other factors involved when determining how a trip will go and what effects are carried into one's life afterwards.

There were several factors that may have played a part in its apparent success (so far) for me this time.

1.) I'd been sober a while already. Perhaps, maybe even probably, my brain and body chemistry having returned to where they belonged allowed maximum effectiveness.
2.) I had also begun meditating regularly (even before my last relapse), which I'm sure helped me get more out of the experience, as well as bring more of the experience back into my life after the trip ended.
3) Perhaps much of the effects are due to the depression I was feeling leaving me entirely. I know that probably played a large role in my attitude towards life and addiction in general, at the very least.

I've never tried microdosing before. I probably would feel much the same as you, cowboycurtis, pretty much a tease. I should also mention that there is still occasional use of psychedelics (1P-LSD when possible, but DXM too, in a pinch). Those not-so-microdoses could be "renewing" the effect. There are usually a few months between using either-or. I don't see this as a problem though. Quite the opposite actually. I can keep jobs, save money, and be responsible, which were difficult for me in the past, even when sober.

Addiction is complicated and people even more-so. I mostly put the info out there because it worked so well for me. I've seen very little of anybody trying DXM for opiate-detox, and as I already mentioned before, psychedelics for sobriety maintenance seems hit-or-miss. I figured a discussion might fill in information that will help it work for somebody else.

Congratulations @martincertain on your 3 months! Wanted to let you know that even though I don't really hit meetings anymore, I still follow the principles I learned from the steps on a daily basis, so keep using all of the tools you have available to you!

@cowboycurtis , I think you hit the nail on the head about getting out what you put in. I pointed out some more details about what worked for me to maybe give you a picture of what else may have played a part. If somethings not working for you, maybe give one of the behavior-related things I mentioned a try. Meditation and "The 12 Steps" are a part of my life too and there's no way to know how important they are in the formula that worked for me. I do know that their importance is not insignificant. For all I know, all my trip did was connect the dots for everything else I was doing. Just don't give up.

I probably should have explained better in my first post some of the "bigger picture" stuff. I dont think any 1 substance is the answer. Psychedelics are really only a guide, there is still effort and work involved, maybe especially afterwards. More akin to help than solution. I gave all the tools I had available to me a shot. Anything mind-altering I did was nothing more than another tool. A powerful one, and one I desperately needed, but a tool nonetheless.

I was an on-and-off junkie for years. I tried a lot of ways to cope with my addiction. Nothing I tried was successful, but that doesn't mean everything I tried wasn't essential to get the outcome I got from psychedelics. If people truly are the sum of their experiences, the only answer is to keep experiencing until you get the sum closer to where you'd like it to be. That's how I see it anyhow.